Thoughts on Melting Point

[IronPimper]

I'm hoping some others with scientific knowledge of ppar upregulation will chime in, but I've been doing some thinking about melting point.

I've noticed that while the hype was overwhelming, results haven't been quite what consumers expected. Some people were particularly upset with the alpha testing by DS, and then others seemed to not respond well to the beta version. This got me thinking, why?

If I'm correct, ppar alpha and beta upregulation leads to an increase in fatty acid oxidation. This should, providing the product has an effect on ppar alpha and/or beta, burn considerably more fat.

However, my understanding is also that increased fatty acid oxidation isn't nearly as effective without a general increase in lipolysis, or the release of fatty acids into the blood stream. This increase in general the result of a low carb diet that depletes glycogen stores, increased cardiovascular activity, and alpha and beta receptor stimulation.

Many of the people who used or are using melting point did not/are not doing cardio or any significance, or following a low carb diet. Nor are they utilizing a alpha/beta receptor agonist like ephedrine, clen, etc. I imagine that the lack of these ancillaries is, at least in part, due to the huge hype surrounding melting point as an "uncoupler" and something that would increase metabolic rate by 25-30%.

I really feel that the true value of this product could be seen when used in conjunction with a low carb diet and regular medium intensity cardio. With release of a great deal of fatty acids into the blood stream, melting point would be free to drastically increase the fatty acid oxidation with a result being a drastic reduction in adipose tissue.

What do you think?

[Lok7y]

I think it's underdosed more than anything.


I mean, cardiovascular exercise certainly isn't needed to facilitate lipolysis (although it certainly does help).

Many of the people who used or are using melting point did not/are not doing cardio or any significance, or following a low carb diet. Nor are they utilizing a alpha/beta receptor agonist like ephedrine, clen, etc. I imagine that the lack of these ancillaries is, at least in part, due to the huge hype surrounding melting point as an "uncoupler" and something that would increase metabolic rate by 25-30%.

I have never seen anything indicating MP would raise overall RMR by anything above 10% at best.

I really feel that the true value of this product could be seen when used in conjunction with a low carb diet and regular medium intensity cardio. With release of a great deal of fatty acids into the blood stream, melting point would be free to drastically increase the fatty acid oxidation with a result being a drastic reduction in adipose tissue.

There are definitely people who have been doing cardio while reviewing Melting Point. Even many of them have not had all that good things to say. I will continue to do my usual sprint-work while on it, so I will definitely create some instances where significant FFAs are mobilized.

Only time will tell as far as I'm concerned.

[acecombact1]

[QUOTE=Lok7y]




I have never seen anything indicating MP would raise overall RMR by anything above 10% at best.



[QUOTE]

you know the active ingredient in MP?

[IronPimper]

you know the active ingredient in MP?

PA speculated that it is a fatty acid called medica-16

Peroxisome proliferators as adjuvants for the reverse-electron-transport therapy of obesity: an explanation for the large increase in metabolic rate of MEDICA 16-treated rats.

McCarty MF.

Nutrition 21/AMBI, San Diego, CA 92109, USA.

The efficacy of reverse-electron-transport therapy of obesity should be promoted by agents which up-regulate hepatocyte enzymes that are potentially rate-limiting for mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation and electron shuttles. Peroxisome proliferator drugs, including the fibrates used to treat hyperlipidemia, may be useful in this regard, as they induce malic enzyme, the mitochondrial glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase, and carnitine palmitoyl transferase I in rodent hepatocytes. An agent of this class, MEDICA 16, has the additional property of potently inhibiting both citrate lyase and acetyl-CoA carboxylase. As a result, methyl-substituted diacarboxylic acids (MEDICA) 16 can be expected to disinhibit hepatic fatty acid oxidation while up-regulating electron shuttle mechanisms, and thus should stimulate reverse electron transport. This may explain the remarkable 40% increase in basal metabolic rate observed in normal rats ingesting MEDICA 16--an effect not associated with any compensatory increase in food intake. Relative to controls, the MEDICA 16-treated rats achieved a 50% reduction in body fat and a modest increase in lean mass, such that weight and growth were not changed. In other rodent strains, MEDICA 16 has prevented obesity diabetes and atherogenesis. However, whether MEDICA 16 and other peroxisome proliferator drugs will have clinical utility in reverse-electron-transport therapy may hinge on their ability to induce key enzymes in human hepatocytes; cell culture studies to evaluate this are required.

[uhockey]

While Medica-16 does appear to be a decent product, it is not the primary active in Melting Point. To be perfectly honest, only time will tell whether MP will prove to be the spectacular fat burner that everyone hopes. Much like sesamin, the active is impressive on paper and in rats but has not seen huge mainstream human trials specifically in fat burning. As an overall "health and well-being" supplement, however, I must admit LipidAce is pretty impressive and has seen human trials that exhibit the kind of benefits suggested in Rob's writeup with regard to insulin sensitivity, cholesterol, anti-oxidant effects, and the immune system.

With all that said, like sesamin, I'm sure it will work for some and not work for others.......perhaps those of us who are more "rat-like" will receive more of it's fat burning effects. I do know, however, that like sesamin, it will be good FOR you regardless.

[DeathfromBelow]

I agree with Loki that the product is probably underdosed. Someone was on here talking about something called TDTA and how it doesn't work at doses less than 3 grams per day -- if that is the active ingredient then it makes sense.

The thing is, even really strong ppar-alpha activators (like fibrates used for treating high cholesterol) do not cause any significant weight loss and I don't know that anyone has done any real studies on the potential weight loss of ppar-delta agonists.

[Robboe]

Some people have stated they thought sesathin did nothing for them also, so i've been starting to think that some people simply respond to PPARa activators moreso than others. In the same way that i get nothing from ephedrine for fat loss (but it's great for stimulation and appetite supression) whereas others get great results. I also get nothing from clenbuterol, whereas others get amazing results.

[uhockey]

Some people have stated they thought sesathin did nothing for them also, so i've been starting to think that some people simply respond to PPARa activators moreso than others. In the same way that i get nothing from ephedrine for fat loss (but it's great for stimulation and appetite supression) whereas others get great results. I also get nothing from clenbuterol, whereas others get amazing results.

I'm tellin ya, simply more rat-like..........

[Robboe]

Are you insinuating that i am a rat, michael?

[uhockey]

Are you insinuating that i am a rat, michael?

It appears so......at least you're not a rabbit-spliced test tube baby....

[turkish]

Are you insinuating that i am a rat, michael?

Remember Splinter from Ninja Turtles? He was jacked and could probably kick everybody's ass.

[Robboe]

It appears so......at least you're not a rabbit-spliced test tube baby....

Yeah, life could be worse i suppose.

[DejaBlue55]

Haha, Hey Ironpimper, nice thread, one of the few that actually enlightens me, so to speak, compared to the others. I look forward to more repsonses from the big guys. Thanks.

[Bammy]

Some people have stated they thought sesathin did nothing for them also, so i've been starting to think that some people simply respond to PPARa activators moreso than others. In the same way that i get nothing from ephedrine for fat loss (but it's great for stimulation and appetite supression) whereas others get great results. I also get nothing from clenbuterol, whereas others get amazing results.

Wow, so you get nothing from creatine, clen and ephedrine? Thats too bad. Is that why you work for a company that has innovatine products?

[Twin Peak]

Wow, so you get nothing from creatine, clen and ephedrine? Thats too bad. Is that why you work for a company that has innovatine products?

The same is true for me. Though ephedrine was very good for short term appetite suppression for me.

[Robboe]

Wow, so you get nothing from creatine, clen and ephedrine? Thats too bad. Is that why you work for a company that has innovatine products?

Yeah, partly.

As far as being a non-responder though, Twin peak has it much worse than me.

[Lok7y]

I seem to have an alien thyroid--nothing from Synthroid (T3) or Trimax, as if it's completely resistant. So I can relate a little.


Steve's non-responsiveness is clearly in a league of its own however; I've never seen anything like it for the life of me.

[Robboe]

I seem to have an alien thyroid--nothing from Synthroid (T3) or Trimax, as if it's completely resistant. So I can relate a little.


Steve's non-responsiveness is clearly in a league of its own however; I've never seen anything like it for the life of me.

He's be good for the myostatin doping trials.

[Twin Peak]

I seem to have an alien thyroid--nothing from Synthroid (T3) or Trimax, as if it's completely resistant. So I can relate a little.


Steve's non-responsiveness is clearly in a league of its own however; I've never seen anything like it for the life of me.

LOL. T3 did nada for me as well, shocker.

[IronPimper]

Rob and Steve,

since you guys are such non-responders, may I ask which products you've had great success with? And yes Robboe, we know you like Activate

[BiggJohn]

If Loky is correct about the product being under dosed, we should hope DS was buying in such small batches as not to realize any appreciable volume discount (in regards to the beta sale version). Otherwise, it would seem that it would be prohibitively expensive.

[BiggJohn]

I'm hoping some others with scientific knowledge of ppar upregulation will chime in, but I've been doing some thinking about melting point.

I've noticed that while the hype was overwhelming, results haven't been quite what consumers expected. Some people were particularly upset with the alpha testing by DS, and then others seemed to not respond well to the beta version. This got me thinking, why?

If I'm correct, ppar alpha and beta upregulation leads to an increase in fatty acid oxidation. This should, providing the product has an effect on ppar alpha and/or beta, burn considerably more fat.

However, my understanding is also that increased fatty acid oxidation isn't nearly as effective without a general increase in lipolysis, or the release of fatty acids into the blood stream. This increase in general the result of a low carb diet that depletes glycogen stores, increased cardiovascular activity, and alpha and beta receptor stimulation.

Many of the people who used or are using melting point did not/are not doing cardio or any significance, or following a low carb diet. Nor are they utilizing a alpha/beta receptor agonist like ephedrine, clen, etc. I imagine that the lack of these ancillaries is, at least in part, due to the huge hype surrounding melting point as an "uncoupler" and something that would increase metabolic rate by 25-30%.

I really feel that the true value of this product could be seen when used in conjunction with a low carb diet and regular medium intensity cardio. With release of a great deal of fatty acids into the blood stream, melting point would be free to drastically increase the fatty acid oxidation with a result being a drastic reduction in adipose tissue.

What do you think?

Nice post IP. No supplement for Diet and Cardio.

[IronPimper]

My understanding, thanks to Uhockey (mike), is that the final version will be 180 caps (6 per day) and still be cheaper than the beta version. The point here is that if it is indeed capable of doing what it is thought to be able to do, it won't really be that expensive. I'd gladly pay $40-50 per month for something that will raise my metabolism 10% with that boost coming from fatty acid oxidation. Add to that the health benefits that a product like this has (cholesterol, anti-oxident, insulin resistance, etc.) and it's quite a bargain.

[Twin Peak]

Rob and Steve,

since you guys are such non-responders, may I ask which products you've had great success with? And yes Robboe, we know you like Activate

Sure.

RXT worked well on my gyno. RXT and ActivaTe worked very well (increase strength significantly).

Superdrol is the best PH/PS I have ever used. Strength and volumization is through the roof.

No fatburner has ever worked on me (supplement or gray area stuff). I have never tried DNP. I have yet to try melting point in a dieting situation. Double dose PhenoGen and double dose Lean Xtreme along with a fat fast worked nicely, however.

LeptiGen Classic was the best appetite supressant ever.

Vendetta (Xtreme Formulations) is my favorite pre-workout drink. I noticed a transient increase in strength and endurance.

I have yet to meet a creatine product that does anything. Most PHs and PSs do nothing (save high dose 1-test and M1T).

I do not notice any benefit on GXR, though I take it for its health benefits. Lean Xtreme alone does nothing for me.

I may be missing a thing or two. But honestly, since my involvement in the industry, I have a limited experience with other companies products.

[Twin Peak]

My understanding, thanks to Uhockey (mike), is that the final version will be 180 caps (6 per day) and still be cheaper than the beta version. The point here is that if it is indeed capable of doing what it is thought to be able to do, it won't really be that expensive. I'd gladly pay $40-50 per month for something that will raise my metabolism 10% with that boost coming from fatty acid oxidation. Add to that the health benefits that a product like this has (cholesterol, anti-oxident, insulin resistance, etc.) and it's quite a bargain.

It will indeed be 180 caps.

As far as cheaper than the beta, that is hard to say. It will carry an MSRP of $64.99. I can't say what bb.com will be selling it for, but it will likely be much cheaper than that.

[uhockey]

It will indeed be 180 caps.

As far as cheaper than the beta, that is hard to say. It will carry an MSRP of $64.99. I can't say what bb.com will be selling it for, but it will likely be much cheaper than that.

I would like to add that I NEVER stated the retail would be cheaper than the beta as I have no frame of reference regarding product pricing at this point in my stay with DS.

[factotum]

I would like to add that I NEVER stated the retail would be cheaper than the beta as I have no frame of reference regarding product pricing at this point in my stay with DS.

It would be nice if it were though. Especially when we find out that 10-12 caps is the real ideal dose.

[covert ash]

What are the thoughts of combining this WITH Sesathin?

[Twin Peak]

It would be nice if it were though. Especially when we find out that 10-12 caps is the real ideal dose.

I don't think so. 6 caps seem to work for most, and 8 caps for just about everyone.

And I do expect you will see it for cheaper than $55, but that is up to the retailers.

[factotum]

I don't think so. 6 caps seem to work for most, and 8 caps for just about everyone.

And I do expect you will see it for cheaper than $55, but that is up to the retailers.

That would be a good deal. Reports vary on the appropriate dose but I believe 2-3 g ED of TTA would really kick some ass. Could produce DNP like results without the toxicity.

Kinda sucks tho for the people who beta tested the product for you as they probably spent more than they should have or will.