Westside for RAW lifters

[Wombl]

My bench has been stuck around 100-105kg for about 6 months now - although I could only get 3 reps at 90kg in january, I can now do 90kg for 4 sets of 7 reps, but my 1rm doesn't seem to have moved at all. I feel like my bench is very slow, so I'm going to try adding in a speed day each week to try and get some extra power off the chest, and figure I might as well try a full westside bench routine while I'm at it.

It seems to me that most of the ME exercises I see for bench are designed for shirted lifters, and so place more emphasis on tricep work (board presses, floor presses etc). Can any of you suggest any good ME exercises for a RAW lifter? Also, when doing assistance exercises, should you always train to failure? I feel pretty fried for a few days after a workout at the moment, so I don't think I'll be able to fit in two bench days a week if I'm going to failure each time.

Any help would be appreciated! I've got to get my bench moving again...

[Hockeylift3r 09]

pause benches, i love using them and switching it up with dips

[Danimal]

Just use more full range lifts along with your normal ME lifts. Declines, DB Bench, pause bench, extra wide grip bench etc. And there is nothing wrong with using good old flat bench as a ME lift if you are a raw lifter. It doesn't have to be a 1RM lift, do a 3RM working up over several sets so you get some volume in. Alternating something like 2 weeks of a full range lift and then 2 weeks of a partial like board presses will work.

[Wombl]

Thanks for the tips - I think I'll try adding some pause benches and DB benches in, and some dips as part of my assistance work. I like the idea of using a 3RM instead of 1RM on your ME day as well, I was a bit worried about burning out if I was going for a new 1RM each week (even if the exercises were different). If nothing changes in a nother month or so I'll have to have another rethink! Am I right in thinking that on DE days, I should just use normal, flat bench for the speed exercise, or do you switch the speed exercises around as well?

[P0W3RLIFT3R87]

Flat bench is used for speed work. You can use normal grip for all the sets or you can change grips, such as wide, normal, close.

[raffiki]

Floor press and 1-3 boards still use a lot of pec power. You can also get in a power rack and do bench starting from the bottom position. Incline bench or even military press would be helpfull. Many RAW benchers work their shoulders hard.

[Celticfan]

As you have not done any speed work for your bench it is likely that your body has adapted to the slow ROM and you are finding it difficult to accelerate the weight faster to complete.

If you have been following a good program and you are sure that your body aint adapted then try the following. if not change your program, that may help.

1) I have always found my bench increases when my triceps and shoulders get stronger. Do some compound work to work these for strength reps.

2) Definitely do speed bench once a week, using various variations of the grip. Aim for about 6-12 sets, 3 reps, 30 sec rest per set. 50% intensity

3) try eating more calories?

4) try different variations of the BP.

[Pro]

This article by Jim Wendler should help you out.

http://elitefts.com/documents/bench_like_a_stripper.htm

[Wombl]

Cheers for all the help guys (Pro - great linkage!) - so military press should help with my bench? I used to do a lot of seated shoulder pressing, but figured I was wasting energy that I could be using for pure bench exercises instead - it sure shreds your triceps as well as shoulders

I definitely think I've adapted to the slow ROM as I always work out with heavy weights. Given that I can still do 7 reps at about 90% of my max, and I tend to work out with 5 reps or less, I'm usually working above 90% of my max weight, so the bar tends to move pretty slowly. Hopefully the speed days will help me increase the bar speed on ME days - first speed day will be this friday, I'm looking forward to working out with a lighter weight for a change!

[Celticfan]

Cheers for all the help guys (Pro - great linkage!) - so military press should help with my bench? I used to do a lot of seated shoulder pressing, but figured I was wasting energy that I could be using for pure bench exercises instead - it sure shreds your triceps as well as shoulders

I definitely think I've adapted to the slow ROM as I always work out with heavy weights. Given that I can still do 7 reps at about 90% of my max, and I tend to work out with 5 reps or less, I'm usually working above 90% of my max weight, so the bar tends to move pretty slowly. Hopefully the speed days will help me increase the bar speed on ME days - first speed day will be this friday, I'm looking forward to working out with a lighter weight for a change!

speed days are very good. I love speed days.

as i've pasted before:

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During this phase, plyometrics, jumps, throws, bounding, jump squats, speed benches and Olympic lifting variants are common methods of training power. The Maximal Power phase follows the Maximum Strength phase in the natural order of training because you have a greater capacity for power the stronger

The weight must be submaximal. Some texts advise lifting weights 66-85% of one's maximal effort. However, possibly the best powerlifting coach in the world, Louie Simmons, has found 50-60% of one's contest maximum to be optimal. Coming from the head of Westside Barbell Club you can ensure this is a well thought out manipulation.

The weight must be moved eccentrically quickly as well as concentrically explosively. This can be the scariest part for people that have never used this method before. Through some trial and error you will find the optimal speed to lower the weight to make sure it is moving up fast enough. If you move the weight too fast it will be almost impossible to reverse the weight because of the extreme eccentric force the body must absorb and must change its direction. At first I teach people to move slow then slowly try to increase the speed with a warm-up weight to introduce them to such an extreme change. NEVER try learning this method with heavier weights or anything the least bit challenging. It is so very important to remember the whole purpose of this method is to see the bar move quickly and not how much weight you can put on the bar.

The repetitions used with this method are also very low. Even though some authors suggest repetitions of 3-6, I have seen good results with reps 2-4. Again the most important aspect is the speed of the bar. You do not want to see a lot of fatigue as this will cause the bar to slow down.

The sets should also be high, some may do as many as 12, but I recommend beginners begin with 5-6.

Hello to weightlifting. Many people overlook the great strength the Olympic lifts can provide someone. Ever notice how it is easy for many powerlifters to go into weightlifting or vice versa? Exercises like power snatches, power cleans, high pulls, jump squats, and jerk variations can greatly increase one's explosive strength. However, do not attempt these lifts unless you have been taught by a reliable coach. I have seen some FRIGHTENING interpretations of these lifts by gym members and that is when someone can get hurt.

What you don't know can hurt you. Although many people assume moving fast or explosively will cause injury it is really when people do not understand how to do things correctly. You can still have horrible form moving slowly and obtain an injury. So, I will say if you do not understand this section avoid it until you have sought out additional information and have full confidence.

Myth 5: A slow rep speed is just as effective as a faster one.

Had to include this one, although it’s not as prevalent as the others. It’s mainly perpetuated by lifters and writers from the high intensity school of thought. Those same people are quick to point out the importance of specificity in training except where it applies to rep speed. Some of them even take it to the extreme, recommending super slow reps that exceed five seconds.

Keep this in mind: Training slowly will make you slow. If you want to be really powerful not just strong you need to incorporate some type of speed training into your program. For instance, if you always train with really low reps, then your rep speed will of necessity be slow. If you do that consistently over several weeks, then you’ll be teaching your muscle to move the weight slowly, and as a result you’ll get weaker. You need speed work.

As a side note, when you perform speed work, try to keep your repetitions to no more than five. More than that, and you start to slow down, as your reps just don’t have the power that the first ones had.


The Dynamic Effort Method and the Bench Press
The Dynamic Effort Method is not used to develop maximal strength, but to increase force production and explosive strength. By training at 50-70% and using compensatory acceleration, the athlete will become more explosive. Using compensatory acceleration (pushing as hard and as fast as one can during the concentric phase of the lift) allows the athlete to push maximally against sub-maximal weights. Thus an athlete that can bench press 300lbs. using 180lbs (60%) can produce 300 lbs. of force as long as he concentrates on accelerating the bar. The training of force development is imperative in order for an athlete to achieve his potential.


For the speed bench press day you will be using 60% of your one rep max for 8 sets of 3 reps. These reps are done as fast as possible while keeping your form perfect and using a close grip. Rest periods should be between 40-60 seconds. For the squat speed day you will be using 50% of your max squat for 10 sets of 2 reps. The week after that you increase your speed squats to 55% of your one rep max and on the third week you will use 60% of your one rep max. On week four you would go back to 50% of your 1-RM and continue to wave your weights like that. Rest periods should be between 40-60 seconds between each speed set. After your speed squats do deadlifts for 6 singles of 60% of your max deadlift with a 20 second rest period.

For the speed bench and speed squat days after your 8 sets you will also do a single rep of about 75% of your max just to test your speed. All of the squats on speed day will be done off of boxes. I will explain this further in this article.


Power/speed training is schooling for your neuromuscular system, teaching it to fire faster. You want to outrun your sticking point with speed. Think of moving a heavy weight through a sticking point as driving your car through a mud hole. Ever stop in a mud hole? You sit there spinning your wheels. What you want to do is have enough speed that the momentum carries you through the mud hole, i.e., your sticking point. The more speed you have going into the mud hole, the greater chance you have of making it through. The same thing applies with your squat, bench and deadlift. You want to blow past the "Bermuda Triangle" of your lift, that point where it gets lost.

Since strength and speed are components of power, increasing one while neglecting the other limits total power development. Unfortunately, many players focus on strength because they are familiar with this traditional and well-established mode of training. Because strength and speed have a multiplicative impact on power, athletes can make greater gains if they develop both component

[Celticfan]

i forgot http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html << for videos on how to do ur speed work.

[9cyclops9]

Why do people say RAW? It looks like an acronym. Why not just raw?

[Danimal]

Why do people say RAW? It looks like an acronym. Why not just raw?

It is an acronym. Real Authentic Weightlifting.

[9cyclops9]

It is an acronym. Real Authentic Weightlifting.

Haha!

[momotheglutton]

3) try eating more calories?

That one has done wonders for all of my lifts

[Wombl]

Why do people say RAW? It looks like an acronym. Why not just raw?

That's just what I thought when I was typing my post earlier - I tried 'raw' instead though and it just didn't look right! Maybe I should start saying 'unequipped' instead - that seems to be what people use over here in the UK. Usually I get blank looks when I say to other PLers that I prefer to lift 'raw'

[Gr8Ape]

What would a Max effort day look like for bench, for a lifter specializing on raw lifting, I know you max out on some bench variation first, then do you do more pec(bench) training or you go to accessory training?

[aharman1116]

bands and mini bands will also help build explosion from the bottom portion of the bench, which as a raw lifter you will find beneficial(at least i have), but overuse is hard on the joints.

[corey_hayes]

bands and mini bands will also help build explosion from the bottom portion of the bench, which as a raw lifter you will find beneficial(at least i have), but overuse is hard on the joints.

Bands are for lockout

[aharman1116]

they also place an emphasis on explosion off the chest to help accelerate thru lockout...

[Pro]

they also place an emphasis on explosion off the chest to help accelerate thru lockout...

I heard that argument before too, but from personal use I found that bands helped my upper end of the bench press a lot and even though you needed to move the barbell faster so it goes all the way up, I found that when I went back to a barbell with straight weight (just weight with no bands or chains) my upper bench press was strong and my lower bench press only got a lot weaker.

I don't lift with any equipment at all and with my experience with bands I feel that there are much better things an unequipped lifter can do than use bands. Bands seem to be great (I've never used a shirt though so I can't talk about this from experience) for helping with shirted bench pressing though.

I just realized I was talking about all of this with an emphasis on bench pressing but it also applies to squatting in similar ways too. It is not too common for an unequipped lifter to fail at the top of a squat where they would need bands to help the upper squat.

[momotheglutton]

I heard that argument before too, but from personal use I found that bands helped my upper end of the bench press a lot and even though you needed to move the barbell faster so it goes all the way up, I found that when I went back to a barbell with straight weight (just weight with no bands or chains) my upper bench press was strong and my lower bench press only got a lot weaker.

I've had the exact opposite experience. Although I switch between chains and bands. They've both done a great job strengthening every part of my bench. But I think I would start to get real weak on the bottom if I were to exclusively use bands with a HUGE amount of tension. I think cycling the chains in there lets my body remember how to handle normal free weights (the feel is much more like "real" benching).

[SnackAttack]

Even with ME days, you should still focus on moving that bar quickly. Speed is one half the power equation.


power=strengthxspeed


I really focused on speed and my 2 board pr went up 20 lbs for a set of 3. IN ONE DAY

Ever notice when ryan kennelly maxes the bar is still moved very quickly? Thats what you want. Be fast and lift heavy