Apparently you can maintain 100% muscle mass on 800 calories a day! What ya think?

[helomofo]

Effects of Resistance vs. Aerobic Training Combined With an 800 Calorie Liquid Diet on Lean Body Mass and Resting Metabolic Rate.

The study took 20 people and put them on an 800 calorie per day diet for 12 weeks. 10 people did the low calorie diet and resistance training only & 10 people did the low calorie diet with cardio only.

Results for the 10 dieters who did cardio only
The cardio only group lost more overall weight than the resistance only group, but unfortunately lost a significant amount of lean body mass. They also experienced a decrease in resting metabolic rate. So, obviously if someone is dieting hard they need to do more than just cardio to maintain their lean muscle mass.

Results for the 10 dieters who did resistance training only
This group didn't lose any muscle mass whatsoever. In fact they lost more body fat than the cardio only group. Also, you have probably heard that "the metabolism slows down if calories are kept too low". Well?this group actually had a higher resting metabolic rate than when they started. So resistance training is key when you are dieting.

So exercise serves as a way to make the diet more effective
You can create a much bigger calorie deficit through dieting than you can through exercise. The resistance training serves as a way to maintain muscle and it keeps your metabolism high, when aggressively dieting...but it is the diet that is actually doing most of the work when it comes to dropping body fat.

The resistance training does not need to be excessive either...
In the study cited above, the group did resistance training just 3 times per week and kept all of their muscle mass...despite being on a hardcore 800 calorie per day diet. It doesn't even need to be weight training. I spent this entire past winter doing nothing but a body weight routine in my apartment to stay ripped.

Calorie Restriction + Resistance Training = Fat Loss
I am not suggesting an 800 calorie diet or anything that aggressive, but I just wanted people to know their body can handle extremes for brief periods of time with zero negative effect.

This is from vacation body blue print by Rusty Moore

*Edit*

I looked for the actual study and this si what i found:

Effects of Resistance vs. Aerobic Training Combined With an 800 Calorie Liquid Diet on Lean Body Mass and Resting Metabolic Rate

They all weighed 95 kg + - 15kg. All with a BMI of 35.
The liquid diet was 40% protein, 50% carbohydrate, 10% fat.

Objective: Utilization of very-low-calorie diets (VLCD) for weight loss results in loss of lean body weight (LBW) and a decrease in resting metabolic rate (RMR). The addition of aerobic exercise does not prevent this. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of intensive, high volume resistance training combined with a VLCD on these parameters.

Methods: Twenty subjects (17 women, three men), mean age 38 years, were randomly assigned to either standard treatment control plus diet (C+D), n=10, or resistance exercise plus diet (R+D), n=10. Both groups consumed 800 kcal/day liquid formula diets for 12 weeks. The C+D group exercised 1 hour four times/week by walking, biking or stair climbing. The R+D group performed resistance training 3 days/week at 10 stations increasing from two sets of 8 to 15 repetitions to four sets of 8 to 15 repetitions by 12 weeks. Groups were similar at baseline with respect to weight, body composition, aerobic capacity, and resting metabolic rate.

Results: Maximum oxygen consumption (Max VO2) increased significantly (p<0.05) but equally in both groups. Body weight decreased significantly more (p<0.01) in C+D than R+D. The C+D group lost a significant (p<0.05) amount of LBW (51 to 47 kg). No decrease in LBW was observed in R+D. In addition, R+D had an increase (p<0.05) in RMR O2 ml/kg/min (2.6 to 3.1). The 24 hour RMR decreased (p<0.05) in the C+D group.

Conclusion: The addition of an intensive, high volume resistance training program resulted in preservation of LBW and RMR during weight loss with a VLCD.

MY CONCLUSION; they were pretty old and fat and already out of shape so why hes using it in his report i dont know!

Here is the full report for those interested:

http://www.uniquephysique.co.za/uniq...20Training.pdf

[gekkoboy14]

i believe it

[helomofo]

i believe it

But why do people complain that they are losing mass on a cut, how can it be possible when its proven here that 800 calories a day is sufficent, and only working out 3 times a week is also sufficeint.

[IEatPowerRacks]

They were noobs with slow metabolisms... their bodies are trying compensate because they are new to lifting... I'm sure the results would be diferent for experienced lifters. Where did you find this study anyways?

[gekkoboy14]

But why do people complain that they are losing mass on a cut, how can it be possible when its proven here that 800 calories a day is sufficent, and only working out 3 times a week is also sufficeint.

most people mistake LBM loss for fat loss.
Volume and intensity are too high during a cut.

[BloodRaged]

Retarded study is retarded.

Did all the people have eating disorders?
What did their body comps look like before hand?

This just sounds ****ing staged if anything.

Not enough info is posted in the study to find out why those results were received.

How active where they during the day?
How was their mental abilities?

[helomofo]

They were noobs with slow metabolisms... their bodies are trying compensate because they are new to lifting... I'm sure the results would be diferent for experienced lifters. Where did you find this study anyways?

vacation body blue print by Rusty Moor

i also think they were probly noobs cause why would anyone with a decent amount of muscle mass even attempt 800 callories a day for 12 weeks

[Resolve.]

OP, can you post the actual abstract, or better yet, a link to the complete paper that you are describing. Without seeing the methods and materials or any figures, there are too many variables for me to take this at face-value.

Not saying it's not possible, I'm saying I'd like to see how they actually did this - eating 800cal/day without loss of lean mass would be novel!

[BloodRaged]

http://vacationbodyblueprint.com/

I think this is what he is trying to link to... looks like a sales sight at first glance... going to poke around for a bit.

*Edit*

He is using marketing strategies so I get the feeling it's just to sell some ****. Starts by giving away something free but to do so you have to give your e-mail address.

I call bull****.

Also, he is going for a very thin non-muscular look.

You know the saying, if it's too good to be true it probably is and I feel this is the case no doubt.

[VTRunner]

Studies can be manipulated to give whatever result is desired by the studier.

Thats all I'm going to say.

[iceypain]

if youre lifting i don't think you will lose too much muscle mass on a low cal diet unless youre already very lean.

[BloodRaged]

if youre lifting i don't think you will lose too much muscle mass on a low cal diet unless youre already very lean.

Actually being in a low calorie state you do risk losing muscle mass. That's why it's important to make sure you are getting enough protein to support the muscle you have.

800 calories even if it was all protein comes out to be 200g's of protein.

You can see where there is something wrong here, keep in mind with no fats or carbs the proteins would be used for energy, anyone with real mass would lose lean no doubt.

[illriginalized]

Doesn't sound right...

[dat]

No details about study including the condition of the subjects means it's useless.

It could've been done on fatties, adolescents who are still growing, anorexics whose only lean body mass is skin and bones, children, old sedentary people with very low maintenances, etc.

[kusok]

You can't.

As far as "Scientific Studies" go, in 1920s "Scientific Studies" told us that smoking is good for you...

More studies later told us that eggs are bad for you, then good for you a few years later, then bad for you again, and now again good for you...

[Dr. Horse]

The utter lack of resourcefulness and understanding of scientific principles routinely displayed by posters here is appalling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826

[helomofo]

The utter lack of resourcefulness and understanding of scientific principles routinely displayed by posters here is appalling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826

Thats why i edited my thread duh

[Dr. Horse]

Thats why i edited my thread duh

Look at the timestamp of your edit vs. my post, duh.

Anyway, I was referring to the responses to your post, but now I guess you can lump yourself if in you please.

[BloodRaged]

The utter lack of resourcefulness and understanding of scientific principles routinely displayed by posters here is appalling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826

sadly you are probably right.

I probably should use that more then I do.

I even have it book marked!!!!

/shamed

[mfitty9000]

vacation body blue print by Rusty Moor

i also think they were probly noobs cause why would anyone with a decent amount of muscle mass even attempt 800 callories a day for 12 weeks

For rapid fat loss?

[martinelli]

The utter lack of resourcefulness and understanding of scientific principles routinely displayed by posters here is appalling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826

Thanks for the link, Dr. Horse. I took a look at the full text and, as I'm sure you saw, the basis for selection of the participants was that they had to have gone through no training for 6 months prior. So that pretty much tosses another hopeful study out the window. I got pretty excited too.

[RandyJH]

I just glanced over the study briefly but I'm going to go back and look at it more carefully in a bit. Assuming a large majority of calories came from protein its much more feasible. Also I'm, guessing the calories were administered in more than one setting? It also sounds like these idividuals did not have previous significant training. To me that makes a LARGE difference. Awesome to see a study posted tho.

[4ndy123]

what was the final verdict on the vacation diet by rusty moore? total rubbish or worth considering?

[beeeyandizzle]

even if this really is legit (which i doubt) i would never bother to eat only 800 calories a day anyway. that sounds like ****ing torture

[liammccarthy]

The reason this study isn't applicable to most people on these boards is because these people were OBESE:

Each group experienced a similar reduction (p<0.05) in body fat (C+D: 40.8±9.1 to 28.0±6.5 kg, R+D: 44.9±10.9 to 30.4±5.3, kgpercentage (C+D: 44.5±7.0 to 37.1±6.0, R+D: 46.2±6.8 to 37.6±4.8), and BMI (C+D35.2±3.9 to 28.6±2.8, R+D: 35.5±2.0 to 29.7±1.7).

Cardio group were 44.5% body fat and resistance group were 46.2% body fat!!

Having excess fat will allow for a greater caloric deficit without loss of muscle due to the body hardly ever needing to access its protein stores for energy. (note that even the resistance group actually did lose a small amount of LBM anyway, despite the abundance of fat).

But yes, in the interests of body recomp when starting from an obese level, a high caloric deficit combined with resistance training will yield the most desirable results.

[RowdyRoach]

I think ill stick with my advice I have been receiving on this fine website. Thanks.

[snorkelman]

IMO the take-home message of that study is that if, for whatever reason, you choose to engage in a severe caloric deficit, resistance/strength training, as opposed to cardio, is what you should be focusing on. The average fat person who slashes calories also does a ton of cardio and neglects weight training. If they made that simple switch and did weight training rather than only cardio, they would likely see better results.

[Rimmer66]

This can be dangerous advice when not interpreted properly. This might be true if you have a large fat reserve in your body and want to actually lose weight. Problem is that some people do crash diets and cut ALL carbs, don't consume enough protein, etc. I really don't ever recommend 800 calories diet, whatever you do eventually your metabolism will lower, and these kinds of diet will cause you to gain more weight when you start eating normally again, as your metabolism takes a lot more time to upregulate ! I would personally not recommend any diets below 1200 calories. Aim for SLOW weight loss, this is the weight you will tend to keep off.

Also 800 calories is a VLC Crash diet, combined with exercise etc you create an even bigger calories deficit, so if your body does not have fat to lose or your % of fat is critical, your body will hold on to its reserve of fat, because we need a % of fat !, then your body uses your muscles, and not in a way you want you will lose muscles.

Why do 800 cals a day if you are working out and lifting ? It's ****ing bloody insane..... With the right types of exercise program / routine you would have to eat far more calories. I know some people who are working out, lifting, and doing cardio on a 2000 calories a day, AND they have lost so much pounds. I don't believe crash diets / vlc + weight training / cardio are a perfect combination.

40% protein 50% carb 10% fat ? LOL !!!! Right, try telling that to the average crash dieter. I am willing to bet my money that 99% of dieters don't even know what a protein is, let alone read food labels.
Forget those studies they are rubbish. They are supervised and controlled. The average joe who knows nothing about nutrition does things wrong and so majority of people will inevitably lose muscle mass whilst doing crash diets, whether exercising or not, and sure your body will preserve the muscles being used first, but eventually if you do things wrong you will become a walking zombie lol. (so to speak).
Forget those crash diets if you want to lose that fat from your fat arse. Eat less of the bad foods, stay the **** away from sugar and refined carbs, develop a proper exercise plan and diet and your calorie deficit will be created from exercise, to lose the pounds slowly and surely instead of rapid fat loss which you *WILL* gain ALL back and much more even if you eat healthy again, as you cannot stay your entire life on 800 cals. Once your body metabolism has gone as low as it can get and you are back on your 1500-1700-2000 cal a day diet, then you are ****ed basically. Unless you start gradually increase cals.

I don't believe in crash diets, the same way I don't believe in crash un-diets Meaning if you are on a 800 cal a day diet (****e) and decide you lose enough of your flubby arse, then you would go to your 2000 cal a day binge. No......Your body does not like extremes.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

If you can manage to lift weights and stick to a routine on a 800 cals a day diet including cardo, lol well good for you lol - you will eventually tire yourself, lack energy and give up!

poor muscles that have to recover and be nourished on 800 cals lol what a ****ing joke !!!

[Rimmer66]

even if this really is legit (which i doubt) i would never bother to eat only 800 calories a day anyway. that sounds like ****ing torture

I agree this is utter ****ing rubbish!

I'm a 5'5 mother****er and I lose 60+ pounds in 6 months on a 1400 calories a day diet. Kept it off for years.

I also used the method of intermittent fasting / cycling, one day high calorie intake, another low calorie intake, etc. confusing the body ! Sticking to the same routine causes your body to adjust and plateau eventually.

800 calories a day ! **** me !!! **** me bloody senseless ! I would never be able to do that.

People could even lose weight on 2000 cals a day, if they simply substitute the bad foods they eat with the good foods, increase protein, eliminate sugar and favour the good carbs, and medium to low glycemic index foods, and exercising (walking, resistence, couple of wanks here and there, etc.) you will lose weight and not starve to death !!! you probably will end up losing more weight over a long term period than the person doing a VLCD over the same period of time, as your body will quickly get the signal that it is being starved and will try to maintain / hold on to its fat reserve. More so people do the same bloody exercises so your body becomes efficient and will do with much less calories, so result, you will stall !!!! People don't understand that losing weight is more than just counting ****ing calories. and the reason why most diets fail is because they are based on starvation !!!!

[MetilHed]

. . .snip . . .

Solid 3 year bump