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  1. #1
    Registered User rtsurfer's Avatar
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    Shoulder pain after workout Need Help.

    I think I can use a little help here. I am no stranger to the gym and I have been working out on and off for several years. I play basketball once or twice a week. Surf at least once a week for at least 2 hours.

    My goal is to get back to 205weight.

    At the beginning of 2007 I weight in at 260lbs. I set a goal and I am down to 215. I cut calories and got even more active. The weight just seemed to melt off.

    At the gym my chest workout seems to be hurting my shoulders. And I can not seem to get better gains. My last work out was

    Flat bench Warm up 100lbs @ 15reps.
    200lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    175lbs @8reps immediately followed by
    155lbs @ 8reps immediately followed by
    Rest for water 60sec
    195lbs @8reps immediately followed by
    160lbs @ 7reps immediately followed by
    140lbs @7reps immediately followed by
    rest for water 60sec

    Incline press
    150lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    125lbs @8reps immediately followed by
    110lbs @8reps immediately followed by
    rest for water 60sec
    140lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    120lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    100lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    rest for water 60sec
    140lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    120lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    100lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by

    Cable Cross Standing over Universal
    Plate 9 for 8reps
    plate 7 for 8reps
    Plate 5 for 8 reps
    Rest for water
    Plate 8 for 8reps
    Plate 6 for 8reps
    Plate 5for 10reps

    Incline dumbell presses
    45lbs for 8reps
    35lbs for 7reps
    25lbs for 10reps
    rest for water
    35lbs for 8reps
    30lbs for 8reps
    25lbs for 8reps
    Rest for 60sec

    Then Dips Negative only

    Now I only have 60min for lunch and I only hit one muscle a day

    Monday Chest
    Tuesday moning back Tuseday lunch Arms
    Wednesday legs
    Thursday lunch chest
    Friday morning back
    Friday lunch chest

    The problem is my shoulders are taking a punishment. I know I can go heavier on sets but my shoulders are in pain as soon as I add weight. I know it is not a torn tendon or major injury because I can use it. And my surfing is not affected. Just the weight added.
    I have been taking in extra protein in form of shakes. But it does not go away. At this point I should be starting my work out around 220lb. My arms can handle it and my chest is not in any kind of pain. They feel like they want more. And the pump I can get from this work out is amazing.

    Am I doing something wrong? I do not think I am over training. And I switch around each workout. One week I will hit a mucsle 2x?s a week the next only once.

    Help please!
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  2. #2
    Raison D'Etre QUALITYGUY1's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Doesn't surprise me...IMO you are doing WAY too many sets/reps, a.k.a. overtraining.
    Look here and read a bit, there is a ton of good advise/information to tailor a proper routine:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=972440
    And look at this in particular!:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1715261
    "it's always a good day to start lifting"
    Flex Magazine, Mar. '07, pg.44

    "There is no secret routine, there is no magical number of reps and sets. What there is, is confidence, belief, hard work on a consistant basis, and a desire to succeed. This is what I mean when I say accept your limits and when the time is right, you will push right through your limits time and time again, mentally and physically."
    --Steve Justa
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  3. #3
    Registered User mike_sargent's Avatar
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    It's possible your rotator cuff is lagging behind your other muscles. You could try doing some external and internal cable rotations and db upright external rotations. These helped me with a problem that sounds similar to yours.

    Mike
    Lifting bits of iron since 3/04.
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  4. #4
    Mr. Know-It-All amoreno's Avatar
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    What do you do for your upper back and rear delts? My front delts are overdeveloped compared to those areas it seems to cause shoulder problems for me (my shoulders feel like they're pulling forward and throwing things out of whack). I've started focusing more on those areas and my shoulders are starting to feel better.
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  5. #5
    Registered User rtsurfer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mike_sargent View Post
    It's possible your rotator cuff is lagging behind your other muscles. You could try doing some external and internal cable rotations and db upright external rotations. These helped me with a problem that sounds similar to yours.

    Mike

    Funny before I read this I talked with my brother who had the cuff surgery.

    His doctor gave him that exact routine.

    SO I will tone it down a bit and mix in these along with the other exercise for a week or two.

    Thanks.

    I do not believe I am over training. Since I am not a new guy around weights.

    Since I surf and can be out in the water under extreme conditions for up to 4hrs at a time. Training for an hour is needed for the endurance.

    And since I am not maxing out at each exercise. I am only at 80% on the bench. Then 60% then 50% etc.
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  6. #6
    Registered User rtsurfer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by amoreno View Post
    What do you do for your upper back and rear delts? My front delts are overdeveloped compared to those areas it seems to cause shoulder problems for me (my shoulders feel like they're pulling forward and throwing things out of whack). I've started focusing more on those areas and my shoulders are starting to feel better.
    For the back my routine goes like this. After warm up.
    Little to no rest between sets.
    60sec rest between exercises

    Seated back pull downs Universal weight wide grip
    170lbs the rear of the neck 8-10reps
    150lbs to the top of the chest 8-10 reps
    140lbs to the top of the chest 8-10reps
    Start over and do 3x?s

    Cable pull to sternum
    180lbs 8-10reps
    160lbs 8-10reps
    150lbs 8-10reps
    Start over and do 3x?s

    Rear delt fly
    120lbs 8-10reps
    110lbs 8-10reps
    100lbs 8-10reps

    I never do the same routine
    So I may switch in some Bent over dumbbell rows
    90lbs 7-10reps
    80lbs 7-10reps
    70lbs 7-10reps
    2x?s
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  7. #7
    Registered User smitsky's Avatar
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    It looks as if you have an intense Bench Press routine going there. High volume (which this is) is fine, especially since you feel good about it.

    The first thing that comes to mind is your form. Do you execute the Bench Press with a wide grip, and flare your elbows out somewhat? If you do, this may be the culprit.

    Try narrowing your grip on both Flat and Incline Barbell Bench Press. Try to keep your elbows closer in towards your sides. Don't overexaggerate this. Just think about doing it slightly.

    I had this problem. I was benching wide with my elbows flared out. My shoulder got irritated. I changed my grip and elbow position, and gradually the shoulder returned to normal.
    Bench (raw): 325 lbs. X 1
    Incline Bench Press (raw): 225 lbs. X 8
    Squat (single ply): 355 lbs. X 3
    Deadlift (single ply): 441 lbs. X 1
    Powerlifting Total (single ply): 1116 lbs.
    Barbell Curl: 140 lbs. X 1
    Standing Military Press: 190 lbs. X 1
    Weighted Dips: BW + 110 lbs. X 3
    Weighted Pullups: BW + 90 lbs. X 1
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  8. #8
    xeHde xox Domkratos's Avatar
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    x2 I too had the same issue in my youth. Believe it or not, but like some have already told you, you're overzealous in busting your pecks. As to your back routine, I think it would be expedient to try and go for chin/pullups rather than doing all that cable stuff which is really can be damaging to your rotator cuff. Plus good old bent rows, of course. Good luck!
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  9. #9
    Registered User blalone's Avatar
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    Shoulder problems

    I have had the same nagging problem in the past. I'm no MD but the problem I had, and what as you described your workout to be, could easily follow along the same course. It sounds to me your pecs and front delts are overdeveloped to the point they are over powering your rear delts and back structure.

    I purchased "The seven minute rotator cuff solution" by Joseph Harrington, D.C. and Jerry Robinson. They go very much in depth about the muscles that stabalize the rotator cuff and the excercises used to strengthen them.

    On your workout schedule I see three chest days and one back. That sounds way out of proportion. I also very much agree about doing more chinups. These have helped me immensly. The most important aspect revealed in the book were the light external rotor excercises to be done at the end of a shoulder workout, and then to rest. I believe these have saved me from some really serious injury.

    Most of the folks in this forum have alot more knowledge than I do, but this is one subject that I little experience in.

    Best of luck.
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  10. #10
    Currently Clean Bulking Shreddedgeek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by QUALITYGUY1 View Post
    Doesn't surprise me...IMO you are doing WAY too many sets/reps, a.k.a. overtraining.
    Adjusting your grip could possible make a difference with the tension on the rotator cuff however

    Please step back and look at the difference of the chest workout compared to the back workout, Muscle balance is important to the stability of your shoulder girdle. The chest group is MUCH smaller than the back muscle group and IMO from what you have posted it shows that you are over working the chest.
    There are several articles on increasing your bench and every one of them is going to refer you to working your back. I own a rearview mirror and use it daily at the GYM.
    Squat it does a body good!
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  11. #11
    Registered User rudai123's Avatar
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    I didn't see a shoulder work out, maybe i'm missing something. Also, chest 3x week seems like a younger man's routine I'd cut that down to 1-2 time a week.
    Rotator cuff strength will help all lifts improve. It gives stability to the should region. I would also suggest doing a regular shoulder workout to also improve stability.
    Pride is what compels a man to work hard when no one else is looking.
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  12. #12
    Registered User EYE FOR DETAIL's Avatar
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    Angry

    Simple Case Of Overtraining
    "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER"
    I LIKE THE CAP LOCK...DO YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH IT!!!!
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  13. #13
    Registered User rtsurfer's Avatar
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    Well I switched around the routine a bit for the last 2 weeks. It did not make much of a difference.

    My next step is to go a little lighter with more reps. this will push the blood up into the areas needed.

    I only hit each muscle group once a week. Except for arms they are Tuesday and Friday.

    Monday Back and rotator cuff
    Tuesday Arms
    Wednesday Legs
    Thursday Chest
    Friday AM Shoulders and rotator cuff
    Friday Lunch Arms

    I am trying to stick to isolation exercises but on chest and back it is the hardest.

    My strength is up on most exercise and weight is down a few pounds. Muscle tone is really coming in.

    But as soon as I hit the bench press those shoulder pinch.
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  14. #14
    Registered User smitsky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rtsurfer View Post
    Well I switched around the routine a bit for the last 2 weeks. It did not make much of a difference.

    My next step is to go a little lighter with more reps. this will push the blood up into the areas needed.

    I only hit each muscle group once a week. Except for arms they are Tuesday and Friday.

    Monday Back and rotator cuff
    Tuesday Arms
    Wednesday Legs
    Thursday Chest
    Friday AM Shoulders and rotator cuff
    Friday Lunch Arms

    I am trying to stick to isolation exercises but on chest and back it is the hardest.

    My strength is up on most exercise and weight is down a few pounds. Muscle tone is really coming in.

    But as soon as I hit the bench press those shoulder pinch.
    Sounds like a good report overall

    When my shoulder was at it's worst, I actually took some time off from Flat Barbell Bench Press and concentrated on Standing Barbell Military Press. I got pretty strong on those, and they had a better effect on the shoulder. I did Incline Barbell Bench Press as an assistance exercise during that time, and I adopted a narrower grip, holding my elbows in more.

    When I went back to flat benching, as I planned to start Powerlifting competitions, my shoulder felt a lot better. I kept the grip and the elbow position.

    My point is that it took time for my shoulder to stop hurting. I am almost positive the grip and elbows had a big effect. I also took SuperCissus Rx. This stuff helped a lot!
    Bench (raw): 325 lbs. X 1
    Incline Bench Press (raw): 225 lbs. X 8
    Squat (single ply): 355 lbs. X 3
    Deadlift (single ply): 441 lbs. X 1
    Powerlifting Total (single ply): 1116 lbs.
    Barbell Curl: 140 lbs. X 1
    Standing Military Press: 190 lbs. X 1
    Weighted Dips: BW + 110 lbs. X 3
    Weighted Pullups: BW + 90 lbs. X 1
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  15. #15
    Registered User Bob45's Avatar
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    Flat bench Warm up 100lbs @ 15reps.
    200lbs @ 9reps immediately followed by
    Here it is. You jump up 100 pounds in one set. Not a proper warmup. That would kill my shoulders.
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  16. #16
    Registered User rtsurfer's Avatar
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    Well I have made several improvements over the last week.

    Some strength gain. But most of all a little lighter weight and more reps. and Instead of once a weeks chest I added a second day.

    The shoulder pinch is still there but it seems to be getting better.

    Yes I know you say no proper warm up. But when I start I give light dumbells a run then start stacking on the barbell. Sometimes I add a quick set of push ups.

    But again I have seen a steady strength gain but by doing the breakdowns in my workout My endurance is way up.

    Which is what I am also looking for since I surf as often as I can. This will help.
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  17. #17
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    Your doing 27 sets for chest and pounding your shoulders and RC sometimes 2 times a week.You might feel your not over training but you are .In your case more isnt better your shoulder pain is telling you that.Even in my younger years of chest training when I was competing I never did more then about 12 sets to 14 sets of chest 2 times a week . Also like many others have mentioned your back and rear delts may be underdeveloped compared to your front delts and chest not giving any support in your chest lifts putting the blunt of the lift on your front delts. If you are looking for endurance whats wrong with less sets and more reps while keeping up the pace you like.To me it seems Your not recovered from your chest workout up untill you start the next one.By the way good job in losing 45 pounds keep it up your doing well but paying a price in shoulder pain.
    Last edited by BIG GUNNS; 11-21-2007 at 01:04 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Your major muscles may be able to handle this load, but your overtaxing your stabilizers. Remember you're only as strong as the weakest link!

    Backoff a little and let those stabilizers catch a break.
    Any workout you can walk away from is a good workout.
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  19. #19
    Going for strong and lean jtroster's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2004
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    Here are my favourite Shoulder Health links:

    Push-Ups, Face Pulls, and Shrugs ...for Strong and Healthy Shoulders!
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;?id=1426252

    Cracking the Rotator Cuff Conundrum
    http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....le=280rotator2

    I include a different Rotator exercise with each day of my training plan.
    Joel

    “Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.”

    My 2014 Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159562211
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  20. #20
    Registered User labradarep's Avatar
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    Wink

    rtsurfer, there has been a lot of sound advice given in this post.

    A very good way to determine if your Rotator cuff muscles are part of the problem is this. Test for your 1RM Bench Press(14' wide grip, feet flat on floor, keep hips on bench at all times, bar must keep moving on the lifting phase, no matter how slow. If it stops that is an unsuccessful lift) Tempo for the lift should be 4 seconds to lower the bar, no pause at the bottom & 1 second to raise the bar(if it takes longer than a second it is OK as long as the bar is continually moving and both sides reach the top at the same time)

    Warm up for the Bench Press:
    4 reps at 40%(estimated 1RM) rest 10 seconds
    4 reps at 40%, rest 10 seconds
    3 reps at 60% , rest 30 secs
    2 reps at 75%, rest 60 secs
    1 rep at 80% rest 120 secs
    1 rep at 85%, rest 120 secs
    1 reps at 90%, rest 180 secs
    1 rep at 95% rest 240 seconds
    1 reps at 100%, rest 240 seconds
    (repeat 100% lift at a lowe weight if unsuccessful)

    Now if your Rotator cuff muscles are "Structurally Balanced" (Charles Poliquin's testing procedure & Protocols) you should be able to do Seated Single Arm External Rotations(Poorman's External Rotations)with roughly 10% of your 1RM for your 14" Bench Press. (2nd exercise down in the article link: http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=538204). You should be able to do 8 reps , with perfect form, on each arm.

    Another possible problem you may be experiencing is that Barbell Bench & Incline Presses can place your shoulder in a very vulnerable position(especially Incline BB Bech Press) . When your arm is bent 90 degrees at the elbow ,Abducted out to the side at 90 degrees & at the bottom position of the lift it causes the shoulder capsule to decrease in size. Thus causing impingement issues. Try keeping your elbows forward slightly, using DB's so you can turn your grip in at 45 degrees(semi supinated grip).

    If you find your rotator cuff muscles are lagging maybe you should take a break from "benching"(anywhere from 4-12 weeks) and concentrate on bringing your rotator cuff strength up to par. Then go back and see how you fair on "benching" exercises with good grip & technique.
    Dan Brown BPE, CSCS, PICP Level 2 (Oct 2010)

    www.performancelab.ca

    www.labrada.com

    Labrada Nutrition: "The Most Trusted Name in Sports Nutrition!"

    In no way is the information given above meant to replace that of a Medical Professional. Always consult your Doctor before beginning any New Diet, Supplement or Workout program.
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  21. #21
    Registered User rtsurfer's Avatar
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    Well my shoulders have been doing very well. All the tips I have been getting and advice from here kept me motivated and moving forward.

    This week I made a leap in my bench. Things that helped:
    1) BIG THING Stay away from smith machine for bench press.
    2) Add More Warm Ups
    3) Less Sets on exercises with higher reps. With gradual increases in weights.
    4) Put a daily shoulder cycle using only 10lbs and 20reps. Front Lateral, Side Lateral, Back Flies, Presses, Cable Internal and External Rotations.

    I believe the smith machine may have been a big factor making my shoulders to force itself to awkward position.

    Again Thank you all for all the advice.
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