The music theory thread! For aspiring musicians and composers

[bhujerban]

One of my former theory teachers used to instill this in his students: Practice makes permanent.

It makes sense. You can't just look over music once and say you've practiced it. To get good at understanding theory and utilising it, you have to practice it. Took me three years to get through all the course work. I had been composing since before that, but now I can make music easily. I'm like a barrel organ; you have but to turn my crank and presto - out pops a tune.

Some people take to these lessons instantly. Others will struggle with it their entire lives.

[Master.D.]

Hey all, here's a clip of a more recent compo of mine with a sort of piano concerto feel.. while I was up on holiday I tried my hand at writing a piece without any instruments or computer programs around me and this is what I came up with..

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EJSFI2C0

It's only a 30 second clip for ya'll, but it gives you a good sorta idea of what it's like.. Inspired by Mozart's Piano Concerto KV 466..

Also, I uploaded screenshots of the score so you can follow, because I don't know about you guys but I much rather following a score when I listen to music:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tactually1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tactually2.jpg

Enjoy!
Gav

[EssenceOfApathy]

I play a few instruments. I can transcribe basic melodies and such by 'feel' while sitting at the piano. I have a few pieces I've composed with basic theory. So I have a decent idea what I'm doing.

But I cannot identify intervals. I'll sometimes confuse a 7th and a Tritone when someone asks me. It's horrible. I've been using GNU Solfege to practice, but I still am quite poor here. It would be great to be able to transcribe complex music, and to be able to write my thoughts on paper.

Beyond that, I need to practice my theory more. Of course, I can just read a theory book and say to myself "Oh, this is Dorian mode", but that gives me absolutely no concrete understanding of the concept. it's something that needs to be practiced and perfected. Yet, I find that it's difficult to do this just sitting at the piano trying to figure out theory. I would like to practice, but I just don't know what exactly I should be sitting down and doing. Anything with even a little bit of structure would be nice. I can afford a bit if I need to.

Anyway, hopefully I didn't ask anything already asked. I didn't have time to read this whole thread tonight.

Edit: Nice piece. But, I would really recommend downloading Cakewalk Sonar or something with an EW (maybe colossus) library. The sound quality of your finished pieces is just so much better that way. All you really need to do is export it to .midi with Sibelius, open with Sonar, and define the instruments.

[:)superlowl]

did you ever post on mxtabs.net, i remember diatonic dissonance from somewhere....

[Master.D.]

did you ever post on mxtabs.net, i remember diatonic dissonance from somewhere....

Yeah man! I'm mod on there still haha,

What was your username on there?

[johnsbod]

Hey all, here's a clip of a more recent compo of mine with a sort of piano concerto feel.. while I was up on holiday I tried my hand at writing a piece without any instruments or computer programs around me and this is what I came up with..

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EJSFI2C0

It's only a 30 second clip for ya'll, but it gives you a good sorta idea of what it's like.. Inspired by Mozart's Piano Concerto KV 466..

Also, I uploaded screenshots of the score so you can follow, because I don't know about you guys but I much rather following a score when I listen to music:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tactually1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tactually2.jpg

Enjoy!
Gav

Nice work.

Have you studied counterpoint, and if so, what books and styles have you studied?

Abbreviations for Mozart catalog numbers are just "K" BTW.

[Master.D.]

Nice work.

Have you studied counterpoint, and if so, what books and styles have you studied?

Abbreviations for Mozart catalog numbers are just "K" BTW.

I studied first to fifth species counterpoint from an online source (which has unfortunately been closed, it had tonnes of info about the harder sort of theory stuff) and from a few AMEB (Australian Music Education Board, I think... the people that do everything music related in Aus ) books. Also, my old high school teacher went through fugal composition and the likes with me.. but I have forgotten most of that, ha ha..

Why do you ask??

I know that these days to make it as a orchestral composer (as in, not a jingle-writer or studio composer) I would probably have to compose more 21st century style music? But the dream is to compose pieces like the Hebrides overture.. I love Mendelssohn.. I haven't heard much of his orchestral but his solo piano pieces are amazing!

Gav

[johnsbod]

I studied first to fifth species counterpoint from an online source (which has unfortunately been closed, it had tonnes of info about the harder sort of theory stuff) and from a few AMEB (Australian Music Education Board, I think... the people that do everything music related in Aus ) books. Also, my old high school teacher went through fugal composition and the likes with me.. but I have forgotten most of that, ha ha..

Why do you ask??

I know that these days to make it as a orchestral composer (as in, not a jingle-writer or studio composer) I would probably have to compose more 21st century style music? But the dream is to compose pieces like the Hebrides overture.. I love Mendelssohn.. I haven't heard much of his orchestral but his solo piano pieces are amazing!

Gav

I was just curious if you had studied counterpoint before.

Most of the music that is performed today is still tonal, so don't feel like you need to get away from tonal music. Don't aim to write like Bach or Beethoven, but don't stray too far from tonality.

[Geoff_Saari]

Was musical counterpoint when voices are independent in rhythm yet interdependent in melody , or was it the other way around ?

[Master.D.]

I was just curious if you had studied counterpoint before.

Most of the music that is performed today is still tonal, so don't feel like you need to get away from tonal music. Don't aim to write like Bach or Beethoven, but don't stray too far from tonality.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I just remember I went and saw the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra and they played a piece from 1995 and it was really avant garde sounding (for my ears) but yet it seemed like the "norm" sort of composition..

Anyway, I'm not doing this music composition course at uni to become a full serious composer.. I wouldn't mind film scoring though, I love that!

Thanks for listening mate! I will upload more at another date..

Gav

[Master.D.]

Was musical counterpoint when voices are independent in rhythm yet interdependent in melody , or was it the other way around ?

Nah.. polyphony (counterpoint) is when melodies are completely indepedent in every aspect (except possibly meter) of their composition.

Monophony is when melodies are the same, and homophony is when the voices move in the same direction and the generic interval between the two notes remains the same.

I can't really think of a term for when voices are independant in rhythm unless you were thinking of things such as polymetricism or polyrthyhms or even (but doubtfully) hemiola.

Gav

[Geoff_Saari]

Thanks

Also , can you provide me with an example of retrogade inversion? I remember reading about it some years ago ..

[Jem777]

And I thought my theory was bad. But goddamn, I never knew it was this bad!

[Master.D.]

Thanks

Also , can you provide me with an example of retrogade inversion? I remember reading about it some years ago ..

Hmm, my knowledge on fugal writing has somewhat diminished over the year but I will give it a shot!

Retrogade motion is basically just playing the melody back to front.. and inversion is where the voices swap over.. so I guess you can kinda figure out what it would sound/look like.

I am about to go through all of Bach's fugues, I will find one with retrogade inversion in it for you.

Gav

[Master.D.]

Bump.. :greddy:

[Master.D.]

Bumpage for all the new members he he

[rxghost]

here's a little somethin i put together on christmas eve...

www.myspace.com/entraik


i have a whole bunch of full tracks ill be puttin up soon

[danqatsi]

I'm curious if anyone can fill me in on the wonders of generative music systems. I'm a huge Brian Eno fan and while he keeps talking about it he never explains the nuts and bolts of how it actually works. I know what it does, I just don't know how or what parameters can be preset.

[Master.D.]

(for superlowl)

Bump again

How are you John? (assuming you read this )

[johnsbod]

How are you John? (assuming you read this )

Not too bad. I've been busy with school work lately. You?

[Master.D.]

Yea I'm good.. I finally finished high school, so now this year I'm looking for full time work. In '09 I plan to do Music Composition at TAFE.

I e-mailed them about getting into the course (I forgot to apply on time), and they haven't gotten back to me yet - so I will have to call them soon.

It's a good course.. it offers amateur films to score and frequently distributes CD's of student compositions to record labels

Hopefully I get in! *fingers crossed*

Also, I am learning Chopin's Ballade in Gm (op 23, no 1) on the piano - a piece that I consider one of the most epic pieces of piano music in existance to this day!

[BigZack1428]

I know a little bit about theory, but I want to know more. Are there any good books out there or anything for learning?

[bhujerban]

I know a little bit about theory, but I want to know more. Are there any good books out there or anything for learning?

You might try to find Ottman's "Elementary Harmony". Any recent edition will do. You won't find these in any Barnes and Noble - try your local college/university and see what's in their library.

[johnsbod]

I know a little bit about theory, but I want to know more. Are there any good books out there or anything for learning?

The Kostka & Payne book, Tonal Harmony, is currently the most popular music theory textbook in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/Tonal-Harmony-...9401175&sr=8-1

[Master.D.]

Hey guys, another bump for you all haha.. its worth a shot aye!

I know a little bit about theory, but I want to know more. Are there any good books out there or anything for learning?

I'm a big fan of Dulcie Holland and theres one other author whose old school (I'm talkin like 1960's) theory books are actually what taught me my basics before internets. I'm trying to remember now. I really liked these books!

I've been composing like crazy guys, I'll have to show some ideas. How have you been John, long time no talk! I'll show you some pieces when you have some time because I would love feedback from someone as knowledgable as you!

EDIT: These books are really basic

Check back here soon

[spherenine]

This thread seems to be in need of a bump.

[Master.D.]

i agree completely

[Willith]

Hey all,

When it comes to music theory I know my stuff as I have spent a lot of time getting private theory lessons and composing and what not.

So I thought, if anyone here has any questions about scales, keys, four part harmony, counterpoint, or anything they could ask me and I will try my hardest to answer!

Cheers,
Gav

Please post your academic credentials. (That means "not high-school classes")

[Master.D.]

Please post your academic credentials. (That means "not high-school classes")

I have a degree from Berklee and Harvard and John Hopkins.

Lol wtf does it matter? If someone asks "hey how do i contrusted teh scalez0rz" I can and will answer them correctly. If someone asks to explain set theory then I step down and say I don't know and John usually come in and do it.

Man you're a snob, wtf.

[Willith]

I have a degree from Berklee and Harvard and John Hopkins.


Man you're a snob, wtf.

And for good reason. I DO have friends with degrees from Berklee and masters from JH- and they are twice as elitest as I am. You are lucky I have virtually no interest in music at this point or I'd probably be headed there myself...

Now please analyze this tone row-form (an exerpt from a Stravinsky piece) in lamens terms:




The description within the picture gives you an adequate amount of information.




Or have 'john' do it- I don't know who that is, as I'm not on a "real name basis" with members of this board.