The full interview can not be made public, some things I had to leave out such as other artists in gospel who are gay, but have not made anti-gay rants. Also, a relationship with an R&B legend who, as ?Rob? said, married a ?bisexual?, famous pastor. I only wanted to focus on the relationship with McClurkin and no one else. I am presenting a story for people to make up their own minds.
Disclaimer: This is not my opinion but alleged facts brought to my attention. The facts alleged in this article are the sole expressions from the interviewee and his experiences with the subject. ClayCane.net does not have any independent corroboration of the alleged facts as stated in this article.
Tell me how you first met Donnie McClurkin.
I was at a gospel event backstage. We were introduced?I guess it was just you looked across the room, this person looked at you and you just knew there was something. This person had some type of interest because you walk in and they look at you. You look up throughout the evening and you keep seeing this person staring at you. Emails were exchanged and cell phones numbers were exchanged so that was the beginning. But, it was strictly just music, things in common that type of thing?but for some reason I felt there was an attraction. That was that.
What year was that?
Did you instantly know that it was Donnie McClurkin?
I knew that because of his prior success with the song "Stand", Oprah Winfrey used to always talk about it. "Stand" came out late like '90's so he was already starting to rise although he had a major group back in the '80's, which Kelly Price was a part of, different people. But, "Stand" was the one that sort of said, okay, let's take notice. So, I already knew who he was.
This may sound like a dumb question but what made you know he wasn't straight. Was he around other gay people? Was it just blatantly obvious? What made you know that he wasn't heterosexual?
Well, in gospel music everyone knows who messes around and who is straight. I've always known it.
It wasn?t just you knew that knew so people in that circle knew that Donnie McClurkin?
Oh yeah! A lot of people know, even some of the heavyweights. Now he's heavyweight, but some of the ones that are well known and highly regarded.
What were your first conversations like?
He'd explain how it is on the road, it's lonely. How sometimes he'd just get in his room and cry. He said, "And you're single?" It came out of nowhere, I said, "Yeah, I am." He said, "Wow, the person that would have you would be lucky." I said, "Well, I guess so, you know, I consider myself a good person." Blah, blah, blah...he said, "What do you think of me?" I said, "I think you're very talented. Handsome, you look good." He said, "You don't sound so sure." I said, "No, you do, you do."
This already doesn?t sound like the ex-gay, gay people are vultures?the Donnie McClurkin we see in the media. We're you aware that he was an "ex-gay" at this point?
I wasn't aware then. "We Fall Down" was really starting to catch everyone's ear. There was talk he was going to start a church out on Long Island.
Was there any talk in your conversations about being gay is wrong; this is an abomination, or conversion?
Early on, no?he would relate it to being lonely. Not being able to be who you really want to be, who you are and that was a little later. I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Well, I'm in gospel, I have fans, I'm about to start this church and the church has a lot of promise. It can be a big thing", which it ended up being. He said, "I have a position to uphold and I have an image, but the thing is I know who I am and I?m going to have to work on some things; I have some things to work on." I said, "Is it that simple? Can you just work on it like that? Cut on a switch."
When was the first time you were intimate?
Like I said we met winter, the first time was in May.
What was that like?the first time you guys were intimate?
It was uncomfortable because...it was uncomfortable because he gets into role playing, which is of course he's the bottom and he wants you to treat him rough. He wants to talk rough and that's not my demeanor, that's not in me. I can play a role and I did it, but I didn?t feel comfortable because it wasn?t me. I felt stupid actually. Like, what did I just do? It was just strange.
Did you have any foreplay?
It wasn?t that much, it was an embrace, a hug, a kiss and then just immediately something went in another direction. He was like a different person, the tone of his voice. He referred to his ******* as ?p.ussy?. Stuff like that, "You want to f.uck this p.ussy, don't you?" You know that type of thing.
Where did this happen?
This was at a hotel. That was the first experience, but each time I always had to play the role. You get tired of it. He'd often say, "I don't want the lovey dovey stuff." Those were exact words, "I don?t want the lovey dovey stuff, the hugging, the cuddling, I don?t want the lovey dovey stuff?I just want sex." That's how it was and so I sort of knew?this is not going to be anything. Not that I thought it would. I knew this was going to be an occasional thing when time permitted.
But it keeps going, right?
It did, it was off and on, but sometimes when he'd get in his stage of I guess when he'd go in ?remission?. When he didn't want to take the calls, or when he didn?t want to get together. I couldn?t deal with that?not that I felt any strong way toward him. I didn?t know what was going on, I just got on the ride and just decided I?d just ride this thing out and see what's going on and what's going to happen. But, the thing is when he'd go on his moments, on this is wrong, I can?t do this, blah, blah, blah. It was because "We Fall Down" was becoming so popular. The church had just started in the summer of 2001 and they were growing. They started with 350 [members] by the next month it was another 100 onto that. Then another 100 so it was growing.
Do you think if "We Fall Down" wasn't a success that your relationship might have been different?
It was the church and the celebrity. He was becoming a celebrity, he was everywhere, he was on TV and his song had crossed over into the mainstream. It would've been just like it was, just a quiet thing between two men that time would permit for the both of them.
There was no shame, anger, or rage after sex?
No, but there was a silence. Laughter like, "That was good!" Not really embarrassment, it was over, but it wasn?t any shame or anything. It?s not that he changed too much like he felt overly guilty or anything. It was done and sometimes in the night he'd say, ?I got to get going?, or ?don?t you have to work tomorrow?? I took that as a cue, time for me to go.
Did he ever tell you about his relationships with other men?
No, he just told me that he used to be, prior to "Stand", you know, he was active. I know even one time when we were walking somewhere?the Show Palace; he said, ?That used to be my hang out.?
Remember Show Palace on 42nd and 8th Avenue?
It's a porn place. You know, booths, glory holes, whatever.
He was into glory holes?
No, he was into the Show Palace and all those things are in the Show Palace. I've actually never been in the Show Palace, but I asked him what was in there and he said, "Just everything you wanted to find. Glory holes, whatever." I asked, "Do you do glory holes?" He said, "No, I wouldn?t stick my six inch, small dick through a glory hole."
He said, "I wouldn?t stick my six inch small dick through a glory hole"? Wow. There's going to be the idea you could be lying. Is there anything specific you can tell me like a birthmark, or a description of a body part?
His penis is six inches and it's medium to small in thickness. No distinctive birth marks. High butt, not shapely, plain old body. Not a worked body?that is the most distinctive thing.
Only you would know?
I would know that it's six inches and small. Not because he told me but because I saw it.
Was he circumcised?
Had you been to his house before?
His house was being designed for him, well, it was being remolded so all of his things had to be in meetings?hotels.
When you say ?all of his things? you mean when you and him met up?
Yeah, he got an old house on Long Island so it was being fixed up. He decided to get an old house and get it made in to what he wanted it to be. He was living with a relative, I believe, at the time. There was nothing going to really happen out in Long Island.
So you never went to Long Island?
I did?was it Garden City? There was a hotel there in Garden City that I went to. I caught the Long Island Railroad and waited on the platform for awhile till he came, we went. He was very nervous because that was the first Long Island meeting. That's his home, his territory, black people all know him. Sometimes if he was singing in Atlanta, I'd be in Atlanta. If he was singing in Detroit, I would be there. I would go and he would help me get there.
Yes, I wasn?t going to pay. [Laughs]
Did people in his circle know you were seeing each other?
No because I agreed to play by the rules.
What did he explain the rules to be?
Just discretion, just respect what I?m trying to do, the music, the church. The church was getting so huge that's when he started to change; I noticed a change in his personality. He would be short-tempered, would get smart with me?he was angry. Something was bothering him, very troubled and ?Why is this happening to me??
Why is this happening to me as far as what?
"I've always wanted to be a pastor, I?ve always wanted my music out there, but still I'm not happy. I want to have somebody to love, I want to be in love with somebody but I know what's in the inside of me."
Date: Oct-26 5:32 PM
Reply to 213805.4
How long were you guys being sexual?
Off and on for three years, 2001 to 2004.
During this time to 2001 to 2004 is really the height of his anti-gay rants. The book came out, he made comments, he told the New York Times in 2002 he?s counseling adolescent boys to convert them from homosexuality. Would you hear about these rants?
Every time I?d read an article in Ebony or Jet, or whatever, I?d just hear it?I?d get upset and we?d always have an argument about it. He said, ?I told you.? I said,?It?s crazy. What you?re doing is crazy. You?re writing this stuff, but yet you?re still doing it.? I said, ?I have a problem with that. What?s wrong with you?? He said, ?I have a problem.?
What do you think he meant by ?I have a problem??
It?s something he just can?t control. He feels that he has to say that to please people. He said, ?I don?t want people to believe that I?m still doing it.?
Some of the stuff he said, ?I?m not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children.? This is what he said in 2002 on the Christian Broadcasting Network.
Some of the other gospel artists, I won?t name?
If they?re not homophobic I don?t want to know their name.
They?re not. They are gay, they would be pissed, livid?did you hear what ?Crazy? said? It would be widespread, did you hear what he said, he?s mentally ill, I love him, he?s a talented man?that was the thing they?d always say. I love him, he?s a talented man, but he?s crazy and he?s confused.
Was he actively trying to stop having sex with men?
Yeah, I believe so because of the tears and hearing him cry. I believe he was really fighting something.
He claims the reason why he was gay is because he was sexually abused.
I know he says that but that doesn?t?he never talked about anything prior to the abuse but he did say?one time, I?m paraphrasing, like it?s something that can lie dormant, you don?t have to act upon it. Even though it?s in you, you don?t have to act upon it. He said, ?I?m just hoping that God will just continue to keep me strong.?
You?ve kind of touched on this, but in my experiences people who are sexually repressed; when they are sexual they?re very over the top sexually, freaky almost. Would that be fair to say about him?
It was very involved, rough, sweaty and vocal. I couldn?t do it that?s just not in me.
What?s an example of how raw it would get?
I guess it?s just the talk, ?Whose p.ussy is this? Tell me whose .p.ussy?? and yelling it, you know, stuff like that. It was like?it?s almost like he was being raped.
Was he completely sober and clear-minded during sex?
Yes, but he was addicted to sex.
You felt like he had some sort of sex addiction?
Oh yeah! It was just so different, he became a different person.
How often would you guys have sex?
It wasn?t a lot, like twice a month.
What made the relationship stop?
It was the hot and cold. One day he?ll send you an email or a text message saying meet me here, or can I come there. Then you see this person at an event and they totally ignore, walk past you, be totally cold to you online, on the phone, or won?t take your messages. Not that I was some scorned person or anything, but it was just so extreme. It all related to wean himself off of men. The church had now gotten up to maybe a 1,000.
Do you think being violently homophobic was the key to his success? There are so many gay people in the gospel music industry. Why did he have to be so?
So like he was?
Yeah?so like he is! Even right now?
It seems like every time he was attacked in the media, or word was getting around, it just seemed like it made him even madder. He had attacked gays, the lifestyle, when something was written about him?one lady wrote an article, ?The Sins of Donnie McClurkin?, I mean, it was scathing. It?s since gone now, I tried to find it today and Keith Boykin, he?s written some things. Every time somebody would do that he would counterattack. The articles, the hearsay would make him just go crazy and he was not fun to be around. One time we met and it was him sitting in a bed Indian style and me sitting in the hotel chair looking at TV. No sex, no nothing?
Three years is a good amount of time, why did you keep having the relationship?
I wouldn?t even call it a relationship, it was just we did what we did. It wasn?t a relationship, it was just sex and I think maybe I got caught up a little bit in who he was.
You did care about him to a certain extent?
Yeah and I know he cared about me. I get calls, you know, ?I need someone to talk to. I'm lonely, I?m so lonely.? I felt sorry and it was sincere.
You don?t think he?s had sex with a man since you in 2004?
Oh, of course I do! But, can I prove that? No, but I?ve heard.
Tell me about the last time you saw him.
It was March 2007; I was at a restaurant in Manhattan. I was at a table with a good friend who started a production company. This very effeminate guy came in, cute?he was sitting there waiting for his guest. I?m talking to my friend and he says somebody is approaching you and they know you. Someone puts his arm around me and I stand up it?s him. We hugged and then he introduced me to the person.
This is the person who was very effeminate?
In your mind, obviously gay?
Yeah, obviously, to anyone! I nodded, I wasn?t fazed?this is 2007. We went back to eat, but he was uncomfortable. He moved all the way in the corner. The person I was with said, ?You two were involved?? He didn?t know anything?not anything. He said, ?The looks and the man had to move all the way over there.? I never confirmed it.
Did he tell you why he was there with the guy?
Later, we did talk and he said, ?Okay that was someone I?m counseling.?
The effeminate guy he was there with was someone he was counseling?
Yeah, I said, ?Oh, okay!? He said, ?I don?t want people to think things.?
Did it seem like BS?
It seemed like a meeting spot, way in the city, it was reminiscent of some of the things we would do. You know, let?s meet there; let?s meet at the edge of the town.
Why did it finally stop?
We had planned a meeting and he said, ?I?m going to stop putting you through this and I?m going to stop putting myself through this.?
This was in ?04 of ?
December 2004?he said, ?I have to do the right thing, it?s becoming a problem; I have to be all I need to be to my church, my people. I have to be real to what I?m saying, to what you?re reading.? He said, ?It?s like an ex-drug user you?re in recovery in a sense.? He always did look at it like he was in some type of recovery, ?As long as I?m not acting upon it, I?m okay. Yes, deep down I probably am gay, but as long as I?m not acting on it.?