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  1. #1
    Registered User 117len's Avatar
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    Do you have to be sore the next day to gain muscle?

    I know people say that when you damage muscle in a workout, it's the healing process that causes your muscles to grow, but what if your getting stonger by being able to lift more, but your not getting sore after workouts. Will you still gain muscle?
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    Registered User OrangeNBlack's Avatar
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    no..you dont have to be sore

    after working my bi's, they are rarley ever sore and i have seen vast improvement in the past year
    "Why do I have to be a functional training guy? Or an Olympic lifting guy or a Westside guy? Am I a HIT guy? No. Does that mean I'm a low intensity guy then? Absolutely not. I'm all of those and I'm none of those. I'm a results guy. I guess my philosophy is 'Results by Design, Not by Coincidence.' Get the best results in the least amount of time. The faster I can get results, the more I get paid."

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    Registered User Pooh Bear's Avatar
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    Yes.

    sore = lactic acid build up. Nothing more.
    There is no such thing as overtraining. Only weak minds!
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    Registered User Pooh Bear's Avatar
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    I mean yes, you will still gain muscle.
    There is no such thing as overtraining. Only weak minds!
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    Originally Posted by 117len
    I know people say that when you damage muscle in a workout, it's the healing process that causes your muscles to grow, but what if your getting stonger by being able to lift more, but your not getting sore after workouts. Will you still gain muscle?
    if you are getting stronger and lifting more in your next workouts... then you are doing fine, just be happy of your progress.

    some factors that help not getting extremely sore:
    (1) sleep ... if u can get 9 plus hours of sleep, atleast 8 though
    (2) diet ... protein rich, lots of vitamin c, glutamine works well too
    (3) stretching... after workout
    (4) showers... it works well sometimes after i workout
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    I feel like if I'm not sore the next day I didn't work out hard enough. Is this true?
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    Originally Posted by 117len
    I know people say that when you damage muscle in a workout, it's the healing process that causes your muscles to grow, but what if your getting stonger by being able to lift more, but your not getting sore after workouts. Will you still gain muscle?
    You don't HAVE to be sore, but if you have a problem bodypart that you can get "sore", you more than likely will start making progress with it.

    Said another way, you can have a good workout without getting sore, but if you get sore it pretty much guarantees a good workout.
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1
    You don't HAVE to be sore, but if you have a problem bodypart that you can get "sore", you more than likely will start making progress with it.

    Said another way, you can have a good workout without getting sore, but if you get sore it pretty much guarantees a good workout.
    What if you are sore and have done less than the previous workout?
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    Originally Posted by Boogie
    I feel like if I'm not sore the next day I didn't work out hard enough. Is this true?
    You can't have even tried to look that up anywhere.
    "Something witty and humorous"
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  11. #11
    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DavetheDog
    What if you are sore and have done less than the previous workout?
    "Less" is a relative term. I've never had that happen before, have you? I guess if you were more tired for some reason, you may do less but get more sore, but your overall workload for the muscle is still higher.

    I would speculate, since one can just go through the motions, that in the workout that you were more sore, you actually hit the muscle harder.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1
    "Less" is a relative term. I've never had that happen before, have you? I guess if you were more tired for some reason, you may do less but get more sore, but your overall workload for the muscle is still higher.

    I would speculate, since one can just go through the motions, that in the workout that you were more sore, you actually hit the muscle harder.
    Say you are sore after most workouts, as a lot of people say happens. You'll know how much you've lifted on a given day. And from time to time you have days where you aren't quite feeling up to it. But you're still sore. Doesn't mean the workout was good.

    I've been sore from workouts where I wished I'd stayed in bed. Was a crap workout. Still sore.
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  13. #13
    What time is it in Malta? Madcow2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DavetheDog
    Say you are sore after most workouts, as a lot of people say happens. You'll know how much you've lifted on a given day. And from time to time you have days where you aren't quite feeling up to it. But you're still sore. Doesn't mean the workout was good.

    I've been sore from workouts where I wished I'd stayed in bed. Was a crap workout. Still sore.
    DOMS has no correlation whatsoever to a result producing workout. If you want to get sore consistently keep the frequency low, volume high and train to failure - I'm not advocating that that's a good way to get big and strong but it will certainly get you sore on a consistent basis. DOMS/soreness has more to do with lack of conditioning for a given load, hence why low frequency but higher load in a workout gets you sore. Read here for a better understanding of causes: http://www.fortifiediron.net/invisio...howtopic=23534
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    Hi Madcow - we're a bit at cross purposes I was using the above to try to put across that soreness is irrelevant if you are making good progress.

    I fully understand your point about lack of conditioning; the only time I really suffer from DOMS is when I'm starting back after a layoff. Other than that, it's not a problem (I train with highish frequency, low volume and don't ever go to failure anyway).
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    Originally Posted by Madcow2
    DOMS has no correlation whatsoever to a result producing workout. If you want to get sore consistently keep the frequency low, volume high and train to failure - I'm not advocating that that's a good way to get big and strong but it will certainly get you sore on a consistent basis. DOMS/soreness has more to do with lack of conditioning for a given load, hence why low frequency but higher load in a workout gets you sore. Read here for a better understanding of causes: http://www.fortifiediron.net/invisio...howtopic=23534
    To say it has "no correlation whatsoever to a result producing workout" is not correct at all. You may question the amount of correlation, or the causality involved, but SOME correlation is not REALLY in question, is it?

    Even in your example, what caused the soreness? An imposed demand. What does the SAID principle say will happen after that workout?

    The fact of the matter is, no one knows what causes soreness with certainty. But a sore muscle given a changed single variable in a workout will mean adaptation.

    PS: I read your link, it does not say that soreness is not correlated with growth. As a matter of fact, it says specifically re the correlation:

    this is somewhat true... if you run an r squared linear regression comparing protein breakdown to protein synthesis post workout you find a 0.88 correlation which would be considered very strong. However you also need to look at the end result. For example... my legs grow very slowly but they are always the most sore after a workout... my arms never get sore and they grow the fastest. Is there some relationship between DOMS and hypertophy? I'm sure... is it direct and 100% accurate... certainly not.

    Then Bryan Haycock straddles the fence.

    Interesting read though.

    Understand, I am not saying that soreness is a necessity for growth, just that when you are sore it indicates some growth (adaptation) will take place. . Why wouldn't it?
    Last edited by Defiant1; 07-07-2005 at 01:24 PM.
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    I've read Haycock's soreness stuff before and from what I gather he doesn't have a clear opinion on it. He wrote something to the effect of keeping himself in a moderate state of soreness at all times or some such too just because he 'felt' that this is when he grew best (I forget where I saw it but I believe we discussed it on FIron the same forum as the other link). He's generally pretty knowledgable but I'm not relying too heavily on his opinion in this instance.

    When I say correlation, I'm talking about in a trained population. Obviously you need to rule out the people who aren't doing any training or are deconditioned. Actually my hypothesis is that you'd find a negative correlation without decent controls simply because the people not routinely getting sore likely have supperior knowledge or coaching leading to better programming and thus less frequency of DOMS. If you controlled for training and quality of programing (obviously we are in fantasyland now which is why most research is done with untrained individuals and not terribly relevant) I'd venture you'd find something fairly low although it might well be positive. Then again you run into periodized program where the specific incidence of DOMS would be low but adaptation high in lower workload periods so that would screw it again. Suffice to say though, it's not an accurate indicator in any way, shape or form.

    EDIT - I think you edited the above while I was responding. Either way I think we are on the same page.
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    Originally Posted by DavetheDog
    You can't have even tried to look that up anywhere.
    Come again?
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    Originally Posted by Madcow2
    I've read Haycock's soreness stuff before and from what I gather he doesn't have a clear opinion on it. He wrote something to the effect of keeping himself in a moderate state of soreness at all times or some such too just because he 'felt' that this is when he grew best (I forget where I saw it but I believe we discussed it on FIron the same forum as the other link). He's generally pretty knowledgable but I'm not relying too heavily on his opinion in this instance.

    When I say correlation, I'm talking about in a trained population. Obviously you need to rule out the people who aren't doing any training or are deconditioned. Actually my hypothesis is that you'd find a negative correlation without decent controls simply because the people not routinely getting sore likely have supperior knowledge or coaching leading to better programming and thus less frequency of DOMS. If you controlled for training and quality of programing (obviously we are in fantasyland now which is why most research is done with untrained individuals and not terribly relevant) I'd venture you'd find something fairly low although it might well be positive. Then again you run into periodized program where the specific incidence of DOMS would be low but adaptation high in lower workload periods so that would screw it again. Suffice to say though, it's not an accurate indicator in any way, shape or form.

    EDIT - I think you edited the above while I was responding. Either way I think we are on the same page.
    I just edited again because I spelled necessity wrong . I hear you and it seems we agree. Remember, I am coming from a bodybuilding perspective so that is my context.
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    Originally Posted by Boogie
    Come again?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Boogie
    I feel like if I'm not sore the next day I didn't work out hard enough. Is this true?


    This question is asked probably 3 or 4 times a month. Even a cursory search would give you plenty to work through.
    "Something witty and humorous"
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    Originally Posted by DavetheDog
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Boogie
    I feel like if I'm not sore the next day I didn't work out hard enough. Is this true?


    This question is asked probably 3 or 4 times a month. Even a cursory search would give you plenty to work through.
    Why the hell are you telling me to search when I didn't even start this thread. My question has to do with the topic. Get a life geez.
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    Registered User DavetheDog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Boogie
    Why the hell are you telling me to search when I didn't even start this thread. My question has to do with the topic. Get a life geez.
    Do a search.
    "Something witty and humorous"
    Reply With Quote

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