Looking For A Good Stack

[ANDY2107]

Guys,
I'm looking for a bit of advice on a good mass building stack. I am a little new to PH's so I have gone around a few of the boards and have chosen the following which will hopefully provide some results:

A Base of

MULTI-VITAMIN
LIVER
150g - 200g per pound of bodyweight of Protein
B Complex Vitamin
FLAX OIL
CREATEIN

+

A Prohome stack of

1-Test and 4AD


My question is, is there anybody out there who can recommend a better stack than this, particually as regards the Pro Hormones, For eg, is 1-TEST and 4AD sufficent or would you recommend an additional product to stack alongside those 2. I would also welcome advice as to how long I should cycle these and also the correct dosage, I was thinking about 6 to 8 weeks.

One last question, after my last cycle I lost most of my gains, so I plan to supplement with ZMA for at least 3 weeks after my cycle, do you recommend anything else to ensure I don't lose to much.

[ralph4u2c]

Originally posted by ANDY2107
Guys,
I'm looking for a bit of advice on a good mass building stack. I am a little new to PH's so I have gone around a few of the boards and have chosen the following which will hopefully provide some results:

A Base of

MULTI-VITAMIN
LIVER
150g - 200g per pound of bodyweight of Protein
B Complex Vitamin
FLAX OIL
CREATEIN

+

A Prohome stack of

1-Test and 4AD


My question is, is there anybody out there who can recommend a better stack than this, particually as regards the Pro Hormones, For eg, is 1-TEST and 4AD sufficent or would you recommend an additional product to stack alongside those 2. I would also welcome advice as to how long I should cycle these and also the correct dosage, I was thinking about 6 to 8 weeks.

One last question, after my last cycle I lost most of my gains, so I plan to supplement with ZMA for at least 3 weeks after my cycle, do you recommend anything else to ensure I don't lose to much.

200g PER pund of bodyweight ? ! you mean 150-200g a day ... not per pound..

mutli-vitamin, b complex, nlarge2, flax oil, uni-liver, creatine mono. and ONE+

you can answer all your questions in a search or in avantlabs .com forums they have good cycle lengths

[minus]

yes you can search for all of these... however out of curiosity... how are you planning on taking 1-test and 4-ad.. are you making your own formula... ? if so, please post what formula you are planning to use, i think this would be more important question right now...

[ralph4u2c]

hes 33 looking from his profile, old enough

[minus]

well i am just trying to find out if he is educated enough on the subject, not to say he is not, I just don't want somene trying to swallow some 1-test powder form with water and fuk their **** up.. that is all, by the questions he is oviously a new user, at least to the 1-test and 4ad....

[ANDY2107]

Cheers Lads,
Yeah good post about delivery and application and yeah I am new to 1-TEST and 4AD, so any advice is welcome. In answer to this I was going to try ************* and product SUPER 1+. This contains both 1-TEST and 4AD, applied to the skin, however if you guys can recommend a better formula or delivery method I would be grateful.

Apologies guys if I seem a little inexperienced in the use of PH's however I guess we all have to start somewhere and your advice is much appreciated.

[ANDY2107]

Cheers Lads,
(hopefully correct supplier link this time)
Yeah good post about delivery and application and yeah I am new to 1-TEST and 4AD, so any advice is welcome. In answer to this I was going to try http://1 fast400com/ and product SUPER 1+. This contains both 1-TEST and 4AD, applied to the skin, however if you guys can recommend a better formula or delivery method I would be grateful.

Apologies guys if I seem a little inexperienced in the use of PH's however I guess we all have to start somewhere and your advice is much appreciated.

[Big Daddy Chemo]

Originally posted by ANDY2107
Cheers Lads,
Yeah good post about delivery and application and yeah I am new to 1-TEST and 4AD, so any advice is welcome. In answer to this I was going to try ************* and product SUPER 1+. This contains both 1-TEST and 4AD, applied to the skin, however if you guys can recommend a better formula or delivery method I would be grateful.

Apologies guys if I seem a little inexperienced in the use of PH's however I guess we all have to start somewhere and your advice is much appreciated.

First, Super One+ is a good product and should give the gains you are after. There has been good feedback from users. After your cycle if you're convinced you would like to continue 1-test/4-AD transdermally consider homebrews...twice as much for half the money.

Keep in mind that the supplements and PH's you take are good but your DIET will make or break your cycle. Start a routine of several small meals throughout the day. Also, post cycle I'm a staunch advocate of high caloric intake to keep the gains you made. Good luck!

Chemo

[Baggio20]

A safe good stack would be 600mgs boldione/day and some 4-AD transdermal at a moderate dose

[John Benz]

Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo


First, Super One+ is a good product and should give the gains you are after. There has been good feedback from users. After your cycle if you're convinced you would like to continue 1-test/4-AD transdermally consider homebrews...twice as much for half the money.

Keep in mind that the supplements and PH's you take are good but your DIET will make or break your cycle. Start a routine of several small meals throughout the day. Also, post cycle I'm a staunch advocate of high caloric intake to keep the gains you made. Good luck!

Chemo

Good post Big Daddy Chemo,

One of the problems I can see with everyone jumping on the bandwagon to take PH's, is the fact some are just not at a training level to benefit fully. Nutritional knowledge is at least as important as ph. Like Wardog says, EAT BIG and TRAIN HEAVY. If you're not doing this, all the PH's in the world won't help you!

[ANDY2107]

Thanks Chemo,
Good post,

Hopefully with the following basics and **** load of good food I should benefit:

A Base of

MULTI-VITAMIN
LIVER
300g of Protein
B Complex Vitamin
FLAX OIL
CREATEIN

However 1 last question how long would you suggest taking Super 1+ for. Reading various reviews and forum's I was thinking of between 5 - 6 weeks at the dosage suggested at "1fast ********". Followed by 3 weeks of ZMA. Plus how long would you suggest I take between cycles, without losing to much of the gains.

[John Benz]

I don't know how much you weigh, but for real muscle growrh, esp on ph, you should take 2 gm protein per pound bodyweight.

[ralph4u2c]

after your cycle continue with your ZMA and take creatine and/or glutamine.

[Big Daddy Chemo]

Originally posted by ANDY2107
However 1 last question how long would you suggest taking Super 1+ for...Plus how long would you suggest I take between cycles, without losing to much of the gains.

These are very subjective questions and can only be answered by YOU. I would recommend that you start a log and record your current workout routine, DIET, and gains. This will give you a BASELINE for further cycle evaluations. You can then compare strength / mass gains and possible loss after cycle.

As for time on cycle...some may find a diminished gain after 4 weeks while others may continue to grow after 8-10. This will be determined by factors such as physical condition before cycle, diet during cycle, and of course workout intensity. [This list is NOT inclusive of ALL the factors but is given to illustrate the individuality] You may reference your log and say with certainty that with "X" calories / "X" grams of protein / "X" supps / "X" grams of PH's (or steroids) / "X" degree of workout intensity I was able to gain tremendously for "X" weeks and taper out for another 2. The number you get will not apply for everyone nor will everyone's apply to YOU.

How long should you remain off cycle? A good rule of thumb is the amount of time that you were on cycle. You can take all the ZMA you want for post cycle therapy but , IMHO, a high caloric diet post cycle will be just as beneficial and in combination will ensure quick rebound / retention of gains.

Of course, all this is said with the ASSumption you are at your natural limit and have properly evaluated your DIET and routine. If you are not at your natural limit the reproducibility, so to speak, will be compromised.

Chemo

[ANDY2107]

Cheers lads,
Much appreciated.

I'll keep you posted as to results

[minus]

Andy I used super one+ for 3 weeks and here is my log if you want to read it and learn more about it...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=45606

my results are posted on the last page...

I would recommend for greater gains 2 weeks before starting super one+ to get off creatine, the reload one first week of super one+ use, as this worked great for me... keep using creatine after you stop SO+ to keep the pump... b

keep us posted

[97LT1]

Originally posted by John Benz

Good post Big Daddy Chemo,

One of the problems I can see with everyone jumping on the bandwagon to take PH's, is the fact some are just not at a training level to benefit fully. Nutritional knowledge is at least as important as ph. Like Wardog says, EAT BIG and TRAIN HEAVY. If you're not doing this, all the PH's in the world won't help you!

I hear ya. I haven't used them yet, i want to "weight"(lol) till i have pretty much mastered the routines i am already doing. I need more intensity! <img src=http://216.40.241.68/contrib/blackeye/evil_laughter.gif>

[ANDY2107]

Thanks Minus,
Hopefully I'll get some decent results. I'm looking at ordering my first cycle this coming week so I'll keep you posted as to the results. I just wanted to ask a little more about the cycle you followed as I want to understand it fully and get the best results. You recommended coming off Creatine 2 weeks before and then re-loading, so are you saying to follow the following:

Week 1: Creatine loading dose + SUPER 1+
Week 2: Creatine (10g) + SUPER 1+
Week 3: Creatine (10g) + SUPER 1+
Week 4: Creatine (10g) + ZMA
Week 5: Creatine (10g) + ZMA
Week 6: ZMA
Week 7: CLEAN

Repeat Cycle

Week 8: Creatine loading dose + SUPER 1+

And so on.

Apologies for being a pain in the Butt, but I just want as much advice as possible.

I'm am also interested as to whether you have started your second cycle yet, or if anybody else out there has tried this stuff yet and can recommend how to cycle it properly and the best time to take Creatine, between cycles or during. I want to keep most of gains so the period between cycles in also really important. Minus your post also refers to 3 weeks on, as anybody out there tried 4 weeks with better results or should 3 weeks be ok.

Thanks for the help guys

[minus]

DUDE THAT LOOKS GREAT!!!

I could not have put the cycle better myself! Just do remember if you want to keep most of your gains it is extremely recommended that you keep your calories high a few weeks after you come off the cycle...

I have not started my second cycle yet, but I will post when I do... IMO the cycle you posted seems great, as to 3 or 4 weeks, someone else who has done both would be better suited for your answer... Like it has been said, best thing is, keep using it, when you think you have made sufficient gains stop...

personally I would not recommend 3 or 4 weeks, as most of my gains were made in the first 2...

Best of luck!

Minus