A U.S. Iraqi War Veteran's Confession: The truth of the Iraq War

[Dablkjock]

I'm not apologizing for sh*t either I mean its so *uckin gross and immoral...talkin as if you could really give a rat's ass about those people in Iraq...one of the most polarized, racist societies in the world and you 'care' about Iraqis huh?

[smokeater]

COward huh? mother*uckers over there killing women and children at the same time talking about how you long for their freedom..he's a coward?

A coward is the one that doesn't stand up and assert his morality; and instead puts his head in the sand and obey's orders like some weak minded submissive troll that can't think for himself.

Yes, he is a coward. He chose to commit a crime by not living up to a legal contract (which doesn't make him a coward, it just makes him a man absent of integrity, men of integrity live up to their obligations). Instead of accepting the consequences of his actions he ran away, that is what makes him a coward.

If he doesn't wish to participate in actions he feels are illegal then he has an obligation as a soldier to refuse those orders. When you refuse orders, you are subject to the military's justice. He became subject to the military's judicial system the day he signed his papers.

This man refuses to be held accountable for his actions. No matter happens in Iraq, this is a fact that cannot be disputed. Standing up for what you believe in is an honorable thing as far as I'm concerned. But running away is not.

[Dablkjock]

Yes, he is a coward. He chose to commit a crime by not living up to a legal contract (which doesn't make him a coward, it just makes him a man absent of integrity, men of integrity live up to their obligations).

Nice self contradiction.

I just applaud the man. And he has plenty of integrity. I'm sure that he thought, like the 11,000+ U.S. Iraq war deserters did, that they were genuinely there to 'help' Iraqis and support their freedom-

Then they went there and saw the murder/butchery/violence/tyranny that they were ultimately responsible for, and their conscience and justice took hold.

I believe the man was more than right to walk away from something after being deceived as such.

[smokeater]

Nice self contradiction.

I just applaud the man. And he has plenty of integrity. I'm sure that he thought, like the 11,000+ U.S. Iraq war deserters did, that they were genuinely there to 'help' Iraqis and support their freedom-

Then they went there and saw the murder/butchery/violence/tyranny that they were ultimately responsible for, and their conscience and justice took hold.

I believe the man was more than right to walk away from something after being deceived as such.

I guess you do not see the value in living up to your contractual obligations. This man, and every other deserter, stuck to certain moral principles while abandoning others. How high up on his priority list is living up to his word? How much did he value his promise to serve his country and observe the military chain of command? This man ran away so that proper justice could not take place.

Perhaps you have heard of Kevin Tillman? Brother of former NFL player Pat Tillman, the Ranger who was KIA in Afghanistan whose death was exploited by certain members of the Army. Kevin Tillman's brother died fighting for the United States, only to have his family lied to about the circumstances of his death. Kevin disagreed with the war in Iraq too. The difference is that he fulfilled his obligations to the military. He didn't tuck tail and run from his responsibilities. He made a promise through a written contract and he lived up to his word. This is what men or honor and integrity do.

[depratercm]

I call BS. I was involved in doing house-to-house security checks. We never arrested anyone unless they happened to pull a gun on us, or we found explosive materials in their homes. Most of the time, we would knock on the door, say hello to the family, the translator would ask if they had seen anything suspicious, and then we would move on. We never went into houses unless we had solid evidence that there was something not quite right going on.

I'm on my second tour here in Iraq, and I have never heard of no raids like that moron is talk about. ElMariachi explained it correctly on how thing really go on here.

We lost two soldiers when some insurgents booby-trapped the door that they opened (not blew-up). so this so called Former U.S. Iraqi War Veteran Michael Espinal must be been part of either some rogue squad or hitting up the drugs just a little bit to hard!!!

OH ****!!!! I just read this crap.

http://www.thesudburystar.com/Articl....aspx?e=741773

"During his tour in Iraq, Espinal was classified as a combat engineer with the First Cavalry Division. One of his primary duties, he says, was to set explosives to demolish buildings and to blow in doors during house raids by American troops. He says he was involved in a major assault on Fallujah, a mid-sized city about 70 kilometres west of Baghdad that was devastated by American bombing raids and ground force attacks that reportedly killed hundreds of civilians and left much of the city in rubble."

I WAS THERE!!!!! NOW I KNOW THIS DUDE IS FULL OF ****!!!!!

I was there too during the Fallujah assault too, got a Marine Corp combat patch for it and wear to this day on my Army uniform.

Anyway, Combat Engineer(SAPPER) and EOD do you know the difference, you'll know this guy is just telling a story.

[DYnomyte001]

A friend of mine Chris, is over there and this fits what he's seen and been through. Obviously, my post doesn't hold much merit but he has absolutely no reason to lie as he is not proud of it or what he's done.

[depratercm]

Your always going to have people who have difference about war or what's going on in Iraq. Your always going to hear one side of the story (either bad or good). Most people are not up for listening to the other side.

Truth: Insurgents are going to hide behind people (civilian) which make it hard to tell them apart, just like in the movie "Rule of Engagement"(guy on roof snipping soldier while hiding behind family). The last thing a soldier want to do is kill innocent people, but on the other hand they are not going to stand there either and take a bullet.

You can read in the news too that Soldier are being held accountable(punished) for their action, weather it was a mistake or some sort of revenge or just some plain hatred.

I can not say that there are no BAD THINGS happening here in Iraq. I can say that I have seen a lot of great things going on here too. Children are children, no matter what race . . . we have helped rebuild a lot of schools, power supplies, water pumps and treatment plants to help these kids have some what of a better future. Our unit has help with getting books, clothes and even toys for these kids in our area of operation ... but those stories will never make the NEWS.

To listen to ONE former soldier(a deserter) out of the Thousands of soldiers over here is really one sided. To listen to people who have never been over and seen the real truth is even worse.

[osamaelias]

Your always going to have people who have difference about war or what's going on in Iraq. Your always going to hear one side of the story (either bad or good). Most people are not up for listening to the other side.

Truth: Insurgents are going to hide behind people (civilian) which make it hard to tell them apart, just like in the movie "Rule of Engagement"(guy on roof snipping soldier while hiding behind family). The last thing a soldier want to do is kill innocent people, but on the other hand they are not going to stand there either and take a bullet.

You can read in the news too that Soldier are being held accountable(punished) for their action, weather it was a mistake or some sort of revenge or just some plain hatred.

I can not say that there are no BAD THINGS happening here in Iraq. I can say that I have seen a lot of great things going on here too. Children are children, no matter what race . . . we have helped rebuild a lot of schools, power supplies, water pumps and treatment plants to help these kids have some what of a better future. Our unit has help with getting books, clothes and even toys for these kids in our area of operation ... but those stories will never make the NEWS.

To listen to ONE former soldier(a deserter) out of the Thousands of soldiers over here is really one sided. To listen to people who have never been over and seen the real truth is even worse.

Do you know the Al-Azawi Genoration? one of biggest from Iraq , im from it. You tried to help but it will never work. When Uae sent electricty conductors worth over 100M your country did not let them be placed in Basra, Why? you said militants would hit it. Sad really. We have people all over Iraq , for electricty , there little or non in Fallujah , Baghdad 2-4 hour max a day , Ramadi same thing. Youve helped in causing a uprising. You are crusaders , understand that , and in Islam you protect your country agaisnt anyone that is agaisnt it and invaded it. Expect to be hit. No one is going to welcome you in open arms except the idiots. And people that want to destroy Iraq.

[jmonty]

Do you know the Al-Azawi Genoration? one of biggest from Iraq , im from it. You tried to help but it will never work. When Uae sent electricty conductors worth over 100M your country did not let them be placed in Basra, Why? you said militants would hit it. Sad really. We have people all over Iraq , for electricty , there little or non in Fallujah , Baghdad 2-4 hour max a day , Ramadi same thing. Youve helped in causing a uprising. You are crusaders , understand that , and in Islam you protect your country agaisnt anyone that is agaisnt it and invaded it. Expect to be hit. No one is going to welcome you in open arms except the idiots. And people that want to destroy Iraq.

that's funny. i've personally seen power on in baghdad at all hours of the day. ramadi and fallujah are a little different.

[|-|EMAN]

Do you know the Al-Azawi Genoration? one of biggest from Iraq , im from it. You tried to help but it will never work. When Uae sent electricty conductors worth over 100M your country did not let them be placed in Basra, Why? you said militants would hit it. Sad really. We have people all over Iraq , for electricty , there little or non in Fallujah , Baghdad 2-4 hour max a day , Ramadi same thing. Youve helped in causing a uprising. You are crusaders , understand that , and in Islam you protect your country agaisnt anyone that is agaisnt it and invaded it. Expect to be hit. No one is going to welcome you in open arms except the idiots. And people that want to destroy Iraq.

If you have no electricity how are you logged onto bb.com ?

You said earlier that you believe the story of the OP because it happend to your family....if thats the case then how come you still have a working computer?, wouldnt the us troops have smashed your computer like they apparently smashed everything else?

[osamaelias]

If you have no electricity how are you logged onto bb.com ?

You said earlier that you believe the story of the OP because it happend to your family....if thats the case then how come you still have a working computer?, wouldnt the us troops have smashed your computer like they apparently smashed everything else?

Well you could also ask the question , of how i know english so well for a 16 Iraqi can you not? that would sound much more convienent. Im living in Australia for 7 years , went to the Uae and visted Iraq for 2-3 months. Got told the stories , and one day the coalition actaully came and blew up the fence of the neighbour that didnt open up. Some of my uncles jumped the fence and ran off , thinking they came to take sunni's from that area again. (there was no one in the house so dw about the blown fence) lol i **** my pants to be honest. It funny how they use the rack and that strong wire to pull it off sometimes or just blew it up with small grenade

[osamaelias]

that's funny. i've personally seen power on in baghdad at all hours of the day. ramadi and fallujah are a little different.

There is electricty in Baghdad because of the local genorator or people have their own genorator lol , i remeber knowing when you having to measure the Kw and watts so that the genorator doesnt stop because overflow and stuff. Pretty funny for a country that should be one of the richest in the world.

[Heeey]

Prove to me it's not complete and utter fiction. I could write a story just like it, does that mean it's true?




Based on what?

So what are you doing over there? Handing out flowers, hero?

[Heeey]

Saddam would have still ruled, bodies would have piled up in unmarked graves, hundreds of thousands more would have lost their lives just the same, and nothing would ever change. Iraq would still be at best a 3rd world nation, with little chance for improvement, ruled by a megalomaniacal despot and his wacko sons who tortured and raped humans for sport.


Just because it didn't affect YOU(I'm guessing that you live in America right now), doesn't mean that many others were not dying. I don't need someone to tell me this, my unit dug up one of those mass graves of innocent people, brutally murdered for opposing a psychopath.

You actually believe this sh*t. Sure- people were dying all over Iraq with Saddam that s why they tend to be so educated. You re the hero of the world who can do no wrong and everyone should be grateful for your [protection] that you force on them

[bluemarlinO4]

You actually believe this sh*t. Sure- people were dying all over Iraq with Saddam that s why they tend to be so educated. You re the hero of the world who can do no wrong and everyone should be grateful for your [protection] that you force on them

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
seriously cant stop laughing after your post. Are you serious? if you think Saddam had educated his people and treated them fairly your living in lala land. Even the UN said he tortured and killed people for oppossing him.

Also, educated, when have you met a bunch of educated Iraqis that went to school in Iraq?

[jmonty]

There is electricty in Baghdad because of the local genorator or people have their own genorator lol , i remeber knowing when you having to measure the Kw and watts so that the genorator doesnt stop because overflow and stuff. Pretty funny for a country that should be one of the richest in the world.

countries that lose wars they iniated often are not well off financially, and iraq has been a beligerant looser for what, more than 20 years?

[Heeey]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
seriously cant stop laughing after your post. Are you serious? if you think Saddam had educated his people and treated them fairly your living in lala land. Even the UN said he tortured and killed people for oppossing him.

Also, educated, when have you met a bunch of educated Iraqis that went to school in Iraq?

They live there now moron. Besides which I think some country should invade us to save us from Bush. Would you be down with that? Maybe your laws for life are only for other people.

[Russia25]

LOL that is such a bull**** story if I have ever seen one. My best friend has been in the middle of Baghdad the last 16 months patrolling all hours of the day.

He has seen some messed up ****. Has done some things he regrets. And wants to get out of Iraq. But he has told me how the raids go and they are in no way shape or form close to what the OP has described them as. Only time they used physical force was when people resisted.

They try to get women soldiers during door to door searchs to go and move the women of the family because they know its offensive for men outside of the family to see that family's women. The OP statement made me laugh b.c its so false.

The guy in the story if he is even real should stop being a pussy/coward and serve his jail sentence and pay the money he earned back. Man up. You should know what you're getting into before you sign up.

[Heeey]

LOL that is such a bull**** story if I have ever seen one. My best friend has been in the middle of Baghdad the last 16 months patrolling all hours of the day.

He has seen some messed up ****. Has done some things he regrets. And wants to get out of Iraq. But he has told me how the raids go and they are in no way shape or form close to what the OP has described them as. Only time they used physical force was when people resisted.

They try to get women soldiers during door to door searchs to go and move the women of the family because they know its offensive for men outside of the family to see that family's women. The OP statement made me laugh b.c its so false.

The guy in the story if he is even real should stop being a pussy/coward and serve his jail sentence and pay the money he earned back. Man up. You should know what you're getting into before you sign up.

ha you re one of these people who have a 'friend' who tells you how it is nice intel

[BIGNFIT]

Summarysing all this, and I am asking in particular the guys who did not believe,or disgreed with the intial post in this thread, the question is:
-Do you approve the bush administration's initiative in the middle east from the start til now (knowing it is only going to worsen)?

[jmonty]

cool. i wish i could know the future.

[AJbuilder]

-Do you approve the bush administration's initiative in the middle east from the start til now (knowing it is only going to worsen)?

You should ask two parts of the question;

do you approve of the initial invasion?

do you approve of the handling of the post-war occupation?

[HELIX35]

ha you re one of these people who have a 'friend' who tells you how it is nice intel

So you discredit the guy with a friend (understandable) but you also discredit those of us with actual experience. Well that's just brilliant.

[HELIX35]

do you approve of the initial invasion?

Yes. Bush acted on the intelligence reports he had, and reports from foreign countries intelligence agencies that corroberated the intel.

do you approve of the handling of the post-war occupation?

No. Donald Rumsfeld is nearly singlehandedly responsible for the state of Iraq today. He acted alone and ignored the advice of multiple Generals in the Pentagon and did it his way.

[Poofy Nesbit]

I seem to remember a lot of people up in arms about the horrible war crimes witnessed by US Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth while in Iraq.

Except for that whole part where he wasn't a Ranger...
And that part where he didn't go to Iraq...

[osamaelias]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
seriously cant stop laughing after your post. Are you serious? if you think Saddam had educated his people and treated them fairly your living in lala land. Even the UN said he tortured and killed people for oppossing him.

Also, educated, when have you met a bunch of educated Iraqis that went to school in Iraq?

The system of study in Iraq is so hard youd **** your pants. My father tells me 5+ hours a day to study , just a average day. Saddam provided free education for Iraqi's and university studies all free. And many many Egyptians lived in Iraq , alot of them teaching the Iraqis etc. Saddam was not good , but as i said better then any crusader.

[dgr_874]

The system of study in Iraq is so hard youd **** your pants. My father tells me 5+ hours a day to study , just a average day. Saddam provided free education for Iraqi's and university studies all free. And many many Egyptians lived in Iraq , alot of them teaching the Iraqis etc. Saddam was not good , but as i said better then any crusader.

Good grief! Stop calling us crusaders! The crusades have been over with for over 1000 years. I know your still angry that you lost for a few hundred years but you got it back eventually. No soldier went over there to "crusade" they went because they were ordered to. Get over it.

[Heeey]

So you discredit the guy with a friend (understandable) but you also discredit those of us with actual experience. Well that's just brilliant.

well the initial post is based on experience as well. it s understandable that some veterns are invested in burying the ugly truth. who would want to be seen as a criminal when they can pretend to be a hero?

[depratercm]

Here is my little theory on Saddam.

In the military we have Health & Welfare inspections, we do inspections so make sure soldiers don't have anything illegal in their barrack rooms.

We also give the soldiers advance notice that we are coming through.

Kinda Like . . .

When Bush told Saddam that we were going to come in and kick him out of power and over the WMDs.

My theory is that there WERE WMDs in Iraq, Saddam ... knowing he was going down ... he handed over all his weapons over to Iran. Why do you think Iran is so hard up to build Nuke plants. Think about it!

[|-|EMAN]

The system of study in Iraq is so hard youd **** your pants. My father tells me 5+ hours a day to study , just a average day. Saddam provided free education for Iraqi's and university studies all free. And many many Egyptians lived in Iraq , alot of them teaching the Iraqis etc. Saddam was not good , but as i said better then any crusader.

so the whole country is studying 5+ hours a day yet you still couldnt figure out a way to defend yourself longer than a week against the usa invasion.