A U.S. Iraqi War Veteran's Confession: The truth of the Iraq War

[Dablkjock]

Former U.S. Iraqi War Veteran Michael Espinal (who is now AWOL, living in Canada

"Too many people take that stuff as entertainment. But what I saw is not entertainment; it's not a movie," he says. "A lot of people died, civilians, who were very innocent. I don't want to talk about how they died and the embarrassment they went through."

Espinal says his unit typically would conduct three or four house raids in a given night.

"It would always be between two, three, four in the morning, while they were sleeping. We would put charges in the doors to blow them up so a squad could go in and do the house raids," he says.

"When you're blowing up someone's door in the middle of the night, if someone's sleeping on the other side of that door, they're dead. That's it," he says. "If a kid got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and walked by that door, he's dead.

"Over there, a house is maybe two rooms, so if somebody's behind that door when we blow it in, they're gone."

In most house raids, regardless of whether a threat was found, property was destroyed or damaged and the inhabitants assaulted, Espinal says. Men and boys - if they were at least five feet tall - were routinely taken to unspecified detainment areas, he adds.

"In one of our first raids there were four males and two or three females and we were asking, 'which one of these guys is the guy we're looking for?' And we were told, 'just zip-tie (plastic hand restraints) them all up and we'll deal with it later.' There was nobody (dangerous) there. But anybody over five feet and male, they were taken away. There was no saying, 'he's just a kid.' It was, 'he's over five feet, he has facial hair, we're taking him. That's how it was. Or if they talked back to us, we took them.

"By the time the raids were over and we were heading back to camp, there would be six or seven or eight 50-tons (trucks) just loaded with people ... You were cramming 30 or 40 people in each (truck), just thrown in there and shipped off, who knows where."

In addition to setting the explosive charges to blow in doors, Espinal says, he often was called upon to take part in the armed raids of Iraqi homes.

"Guys would go in and just tear up the house - kick in walls, knock over shelves, carve up mattresses, go through their ice box or refrigerator. Basically, anything they had was destroyed.

"If they had any U.S. currency, it was taken from them. Whatever they had, if we wanted it, it was ours and there was nothing they could do about it. If there were males over five feet tall and we were taking them away, the females would be yelling about what we were doing with their families and we couldn't tell them. Kids would be crying. It was chaos.

Then we would just take the males and leave without telling them were they were going. Then we'd go to the next house for the next raid and do it all over again. We would do three or four in a four-hour period and other units would be doing the same thing, taking places down like dominoes. That would be your basic early morning in Iraq."

Iraqis who tried to fight back during house raids were either shot or "smacked down" and then detained, Espinal says. In many cases they were humiliated and abused in other ways, he claims.

"There are certain ways, in their culture, to treat females (but) we didn't follow any of that. They got touched, yelled at. They got thrown to the ground. Mud, ****, whatever, would be dragged into their house. Their religious artifacts would get smashed up. I saw soldiers take out their Bibles and throw them at them and replace their books with Bibles and American stuff. I saw soldiers go into their refrigerators and take their food and bring it back to camp. When we were in that house, we could do whatever we wanted to their stuff and there were no ifs, ands or buts about it. It was ours and we could do whatever we wanted.

"Guys would be chewing tobacco and spit on the floor, spit on their beds, spit on their clothes, break their dishes, break their vases, rip up any paperwork they had, rip open children's toys. That was a basic raid - going in there and just destroying whatever they had.

"If we were in a raid and there were children in the way, you weren't allowed to tell them to get out of the way. You were not allowed to talk to them. If they got in the way, they got in the way. You threw them to the ground and zip-tied them and threw them on the back of a 50-ton and they were sent to, wherever."

Invariably, regardless of the soldiers' conduct or whether a threat or legitimate target was uncovered during a night of house raids, "we were told, 'job well-done,' " Espinal says. "We were told, 'we completed the mission tonight, we got the mission done right.' Unless the mission was destroying people's property, I don't know what the mission was."

Even in his eight-man squad, Espinal says, he was far from alone in terms of soldiers who abhorred what they were doing.

"Of the eight I was with, four of them did not agree" with the mission. "The rest of them were officers."

"Yes, I volunteered," he says. "But I didn't volunteer to go to another country and destroy it, to go into innocent people's homes and destroy them and mistreat them and if they fight back they get shot ... Some people call us (deserters) cowards, but I don't think you're a coward if you stand up for yourself, if you refuse to kill innocent people."

[catmando]

Or as bu$h calls it, "winning hearts and minds".

[HELIX35]

You honestly expect anyone to buy into this ****?

[hobbes1651]

His story reminds me alot of a guy named Jesse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

Oh and Helix the said thing is alot of people do.

[HELIX35]

His story reminds me alot of a guy named Jesse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

Oh and Helix the said thing is alot of people do.

I seem to remember a lot of people up in arms about the horrible war crimes witnessed by US Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth while in Iraq.

Except for that whole part where he wasn't a Ranger...
And that part where he didn't go to Iraq...

[AccountantGuy]

I seem to remember a lot of people up in arms about the horrible war crimes witnessed by US Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth while in Iraq.

Except for that whole part where he wasn't a Ranger...
And that part where he didn't go to Iraq...

Just another Bu$h smear hate machine attack on our troops.

[osamaelias]

I can swear to you that the story of that General is true ? How would i know? My Uncles and Grandfather happened same thing.
They came at night in Ramadan , blew up the front fence , went in the house took anything they can find , gold money anything. Then took the men away. After 3 years they were let out of jail. Simple as that. No reason at all. Not just our house , everyone in the neighbourhood , if you were lucky , you could have escaped.

[Dablkjock]

You honestly expect anyone to buy into this ****?

Hmm...try a google search on his name; he and his wife actually registered with a U.S. based organization that helps soldiers relocate and apply for conscientious objector status in Canada, ultimately for citizenship. I don't think he's getting any multi-million dollar prizes for his story.

[paulpfiction]

get dat der 50 ton truck

the mechanics musta fueled it with cell tech!@

[BIGNFIT]

Former U.S. Iraqi War Veteran Michael Espinal (who is now AWOL, living in Canada

"Too many people take that stuff as entertainment. But what I saw is not entertainment; it's not a movie," he says. "A lot of people died, civilians, who were very innocent. I don't want to talk about how they died and the embarrassment they went through."

Espinal says his unit typically would conduct three or four house raids in a given night.

"It would always be between two, three, four in the morning, while they were sleeping. We would put charges in the doors to blow them up so a squad could go in and do the house raids," he says.

"When you're blowing up someone's door in the middle of the night, if someone's sleeping on the other side of that door, they're dead. That's it," he says. "If a kid got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and walked by that door, he's dead.

"Over there, a house is maybe two rooms, so if somebody's behind that door when we blow it in, they're gone."

In most house raids, regardless of whether a threat was found, property was destroyed or damaged and the inhabitants assaulted, Espinal says. Men and boys - if they were at least five feet tall - were routinely taken to unspecified detainment areas, he adds.

"In one of our first raids there were four males and two or three females and we were asking, 'which one of these guys is the guy we're looking for?' And we were told, 'just zip-tie (plastic hand restraints) them all up and we'll deal with it later.' There was nobody (dangerous) there. But anybody over five feet and male, they were taken away. There was no saying, 'he's just a kid.' It was, 'he's over five feet, he has facial hair, we're taking him. That's how it was. Or if they talked back to us, we took them.

"By the time the raids were over and we were heading back to camp, there would be six or seven or eight 50-tons (trucks) just loaded with people ... You were cramming 30 or 40 people in each (truck), just thrown in there and shipped off, who knows where."

In addition to setting the explosive charges to blow in doors, Espinal says, he often was called upon to take part in the armed raids of Iraqi homes.

"Guys would go in and just tear up the house - kick in walls, knock over shelves, carve up mattresses, go through their ice box or refrigerator. Basically, anything they had was destroyed.

"If they had any U.S. currency, it was taken from them. Whatever they had, if we wanted it, it was ours and there was nothing they could do about it. If there were males over five feet tall and we were taking them away, the females would be yelling about what we were doing with their families and we couldn't tell them. Kids would be crying. It was chaos.

Then we would just take the males and leave without telling them were they were going. Then we'd go to the next house for the next raid and do it all over again. We would do three or four in a four-hour period and other units would be doing the same thing, taking places down like dominoes. That would be your basic early morning in Iraq."

Iraqis who tried to fight back during house raids were either shot or "smacked down" and then detained, Espinal says. In many cases they were humiliated and abused in other ways, he claims.

"There are certain ways, in their culture, to treat females (but) we didn't follow any of that. They got touched, yelled at. They got thrown to the ground. Mud, ****, whatever, would be dragged into their house. Their religious artifacts would get smashed up. I saw soldiers take out their Bibles and throw them at them and replace their books with Bibles and American stuff. I saw soldiers go into their refrigerators and take their food and bring it back to camp. When we were in that house, we could do whatever we wanted to their stuff and there were no ifs, ands or buts about it. It was ours and we could do whatever we wanted.

"Guys would be chewing tobacco and spit on the floor, spit on their beds, spit on their clothes, break their dishes, break their vases, rip up any paperwork they had, rip open children's toys. That was a basic raid - going in there and just destroying whatever they had.

"If we were in a raid and there were children in the way, you weren't allowed to tell them to get out of the way. You were not allowed to talk to them. If they got in the way, they got in the way. You threw them to the ground and zip-tied them and threw them on the back of a 50-ton and they were sent to, wherever."

Invariably, regardless of the soldiers' conduct or whether a threat or legitimate target was uncovered during a night of house raids, "we were told, 'job well-done,' " Espinal says. "We were told, 'we completed the mission tonight, we got the mission done right.' Unless the mission was destroying people's property, I don't know what the mission was."

Even in his eight-man squad, Espinal says, he was far from alone in terms of soldiers who abhorred what they were doing.

"Of the eight I was with, four of them did not agree" with the mission. "The rest of them were officers."

"Yes, I volunteered," he says. "But I didn't volunteer to go to another country and destroy it, to go into innocent people's homes and destroy them and mistreat them and if they fight back they get shot ... Some people call us (deserters) cowards, but I don't think you're a coward if you stand up for yourself, if you refuse to kill innocent people."

I believe it.

[HELIX35]

Hmm...try a google search on his name; he and his wife actually registered with a U.S. based organization that helps soldiers relocate and apply for conscientious objector status in Canada, ultimately for citizenship. I don't think he's getting any multi-million dollar prizes for his story.

Prove to me it's not complete and utter fiction. I could write a story just like it, does that mean it's true?

I believe it.

Based on what?

[BIGNFIT]

Prove to me it's not complete and utter fiction. I could write a story just like it, does that mean it's true?




Based on what?

Prove him wrong, I'll believe you.

[ElMariachi]

Prove him wrong, I'll believe you.

I call BS. I was involved in doing house-to-house security checks. We never arrested anyone unless they happened to pull a gun on us, or we found explosive materials in their homes. Most of the time, we would knock on the door, say hello to the family, the translator would ask if they had seen anything suspicious, and then we would move on. We never went into houses unless we had solid evidence that there was something not quite right going on.

[2X-eed]

I call BS. I was involved in doing house-to-house security checks. We never arrested anyone unless they happened to pull a gun on us, or we found explosive materials in their homes. Most of the time, we would knock on the door, say hello to the family, the translator would ask if they had seen anything suspicious, and then we would move on. We never went into houses unless we had solid evidence that there was something not quite right going on.

Just because your unit did it a certain way doesn't mean others didn't do it other ways. I knew people who guarded detainees and didn't torture them at all, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen at all. Actually we know it has.

[Dablkjock]

I call BS. I was involved in doing house-to-house security checks. We never arrested anyone unless they happened to pull a gun on us, or we found explosive materials in their homes. Most of the time, we would knock on the door, say hello to the family, the translator would ask if they had seen anything suspicious, and then we would move on. We never went into houses unless we had solid evidence that there was something not quite right going on.

LOOL!!!!! Now that's what I call bulsh!t!!

[hobbes1651]

LOOL!!!!! Now that's what I call bulsh!t!!

Why becuase it contradicts what you said?

[Dablkjock]

http://www.thesudburystar.com/Articl....aspx?e=741773

You happy now?

[HELIX35]

Prove him wrong, I'll believe you.

I never once saw, heard of, or experienced any of the described actions in that article.

LOOL!!!!! Now that's what I call bulsh!t!!

Please educate me with your experience in the matter from first hand experience in Iraq. I bet I have more.

[Dablkjock]

I never once saw, heard of, or experienced any of the described actions in that article.




Please educate me with your experience in the matter from first hand experience in Iraq. I bet I have more.

I got a half brother who just got out the navy. Not goin' back.

[hobbes1651]

I got a half brother who just got out the navy. Not goin' back.

Good for him my cousin is in the marines and is heading there.

[ElMariachi]

Just because your unit did it a certain way doesn't mean others didn't do it other ways. I knew people who guarded detainees and didn't torture them at all, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen at all. Actually we know it has.

Yes, a small unruly minority.....................that is like saying "just because you don't smoke crack, doesn't mean that there aren't people who do in fact smoke crack."

Terrible lack of logic.

[Dablkjock]

Why becuase it contradicts what you said?

NO. I can just picture it; gun-totin soldiers runnin' around packin more heat than I care to mention, goin' door to door like Jahova's witness:

U.S. Soldier (gently tapping on door):
"Hi there, Iraqi citizen! By chance have you seen anything strange?"

Iraqi citizen:
"Blasdlkfjasdlfkjasdf"

U.S. Soldier:
"Oh wait, ma'am. I can't understand a word your saying! Pardon me! Allow me to get my interpreter here.."

Interpreter:
"Balkasdflkasdfalkjasdfoiu"

Iraqi Citizen:
"Blkasdlfkjasdflkjasdflkj"

Intepreter:
"She told you to *uck off."

U.S. soldier:
"Oh well! Sorry to bother you! You all have a pleasant day!"

[HELIX35]

I got a half brother who just got out the navy. Not goin' back.

Of course you do. The people that start these threads always have a friends brothers dogs uncle in the military, usually a SEAL or spec ops, or a 4 star General, that they heard all their information from.

Not one person with real experience in Iraq has ever started a thread like this one. That alone should tell you something.

[hobbes1651]

Of course you do. The people that start these threads always have a friends brothers dogs uncle in the military, usually a SEAL or spec ops, or a 4 star General, that they heard all their information from.

Not one person with real experience in Iraq has ever started a thread like this one. That alone should tell you something.

lol at dogs.

Hey Helix your in the marines. I got a quick question at my cousins wedding there were a bunch of marines. For some reason while we were drinking they kept thinking it was great to headbutt me. This normal?

I would ask my cousin but he went straight back to base after his honeymoon to be deployed. They got married to take advantage of the money given to the spouse or something.

[paulpfiction]

Prove him wrong, I'll believe you.

we dont have a 50 ton truck?

[Lloyd Braun]

Not one person with real experience in Iraq has ever started a thread like this one. That alone should tell you something.

QFT.

[Dablkjock]

I don't care what you believe or don't. And when you say
"No one with real Iraq experience would post a thread like this.."

You should change that too:
"No brainwashed, dead-head, herd-mentality U.S. soldier would post a thread like this. The military goes great lengths to make sure its soldiers don't think for themselves. It wants well-bred machines."

[bluemarlinO4]

Wait guys, next week Rush Limbaugh will have a 10 million dollar letter for calling BS again. HAHAH.
This is the stupidest story I ever heard. OH and LMAO that he is AWOL in Canada, good for him, dont come back.

[catmando]

Yes, a small unruly minority.....................that is like saying "just because you don't smoke crack, doesn't mean that there aren't people who do in fact smoke crack."

Terrible lack of logic.

And that "small unruly minority" had orders to torture that came from the SECDEF.

[HELIX35]

Hey Helix your in the marines. I got a quick question at my cousins wedding there were a bunch of marines. For some reason while we were drinking they kept thinking it was great to headbutt me. This normal?

They were probably grunts... so yes.

I don't care what you believe or don't. And when you say
"No one with real Iraq experience would post a thread like this.."

You should change that too:
"No brainwashed, dead-head, herd-mentality U.S. soldier would post a thread like this. The military goes great lengths to make sure its soldiers don't think for themselves. It wants well-bred machines."

Ahh ignorance must be bliss.