Most gods are selfish losers

[AKR]

Any religion, in which you must worship it's leader has a selfish loser for a god. It's not good enough that you simply follow the morals of that religion, and try to do "right," but you must also worship and acknowledge the creator. How can people believe in these religions and not see the egotistical nature of them? If I was the leader of a country, I could care less if people praised me and acknowledged me as a great ruler, just so long as they did their best to respect others and do positive things. What if I were to say, "not only do you have to follow these laws and respect others, but you also have to make statues to me, and send me letters, telling me how much you love me. Even if you abide by all of the rules of the land, if you do not worship me, I will torture you."

Wouldn't that make me an egotistical, insecure sack of ****? How sad that a "mere" human has the humility that a god cannot have. How insecure must one be to torture, or punish one, who, in all other ways has done the best they could do, only because they don't stroke his ego? What a loser that would be.

[Beatitude]

Your continued persistence, as seen by this thread and multiple other posts, shows your inability to see that absolute sovereignty and absolute benevolence (including justice) is shown absolutely by Gods demands.

Worshiping God is central to morality, and no, none of your examples can appropriately compare to the relationship that God has with his creation.

Your conjured fantasy of an ideal god isn't the true God of power and holiness; he's an apathetic pothead. God's intervention in our lives is a testament to the fact that he's a God that cares about things that are as nothing next to Him. Down to the last sparrow.

Besides, everything belongs to God, and all blessings come from God. There is nothing that he demands that he should not be able to demand. Robbing God of your praise is, in a way, theft.

[AKR]

Your continued persistence, as seen by this thread and multiple other posts, shows your inability to see that absolute sovereignty and absolute benevolence (including justice) is shown absolutely by Gods demands.

Worshiping God is central to morality, and no, none of your examples can appropriately compare to the relationship that God has with his creation.

Your conjured fantasy of an ideal god isn't the true God of power and holiness; he's an apathetic pothead. God's intervention in our lives is a testament to the fact that he's a God that cares about things that are as nothing next to Him. Down to the last sparrow.

Besides, everything belongs to God, and all blessings come from God. There is nothing that he demands that he should not be able to demand. Robbing God of your praise is, in a way, theft.

Why would I fantasize about a stoned, careless god? God's supposed intervention is a testament to a god that doesn't really give a **** about anyone but himself. If he did, he would f*ck off and never have created people in this environment in the first place. He wouldn't doom people for not worshipping him. Nothing in your post counters the fact that a being who punishes those who do not worship him is the very epitomy of egotism.

[AKR]

So I can never commit any crimes, help people at every chance, do volunteer work, and give to charity. But if I pick the wrong God out of the other million I'm immoral?

So he tortures people for an eternity because he cares about us?

One more thing, you have AKR on your ignore list, yet you responded to his thread....?

His ignore list is just a joke.

[Uninspired123]

Any religion, in which you must worship it's leader has a selfish loser for a god. It's not good enough that you simply follow the morals of that religion, and try to do "right," but you must also worship and acknowledge the creator. How can people believe in these religions and not see the egotistical nature of them? If I was the leader of a country, I could care less if people praised me and acknowledged me as a great ruler, just so long as they did their best to respect others and do positive things. What if I were to say, "not only do you have to follow these laws and respect others, but you also have to make statues to me, and send me letters, telling me how much you love me. Even if you abide by all of the rules of the land, if you do not worship me, I will torture you."

Wouldn't that make me an egotistical, insecure sack of ****? How sad that a "mere" human has the humility that a god cannot have. How insecure must one be to torture, or punish one, who, in all other ways has done the best they could do, only because they don't stroke his ego? What a loser that would be.

well i guess if you're the creator of the universe, technically you can do whatever you want and even be egotistical. Why you would want praise or petty gifts from humans, a mere speck in the universe, is beyond me. But you would still have the right to be egotistical i suppose.

The real question is why does the creator of the universe need us at all. How pointless, this whole "experiment." He gives us an earth so we can eat, ****, procreate, and worship him, WTF, why? Just end it, we'd all be at peace. As much as theists claim that god is loving and all that business, they never EVER, answer the question: why the hell would god care about such a small planet. Usually you hear the answer: because he loves us and made us in his image. And i'd ask: what have we done to merit being loved? And what exactly does it mean to be made in his image. Vague answers abound.

whatever.

[Beatitude]

So I can never commit any crimes, help people at every chance, do volunteer work, and give to charity. But if I pick the wrong God out of the other million I'm immoral?

So he tortures people for an eternity because he cares about us?

It is important to understand that action by itself can be meaningless, even wicked, if done for the wrong reasons.

The pharisees, for example, were righteous men by appearance, though Jesus detested their wicked hearts. They gave grand donations to the temple, but when a poor woman donated what was a very small sum of money, he proclaimed that she gave more than what anyone else had.

It was for such men that Jesus said the prostitutes would enter heaven before they would, and that they would receive the greater damnation.

A person that says in their heart that there is no God has allowed their self to be deceived, and because of that, none of the things they do, they do for the right reasons. Action by itself is dead. You are making a judgment based solely on a persons actions, and that is not suffecient.

[AKR]

well i guess if you're the creator of the universe, technically you can do whatever you want and even be egotistical. Why you would want praise or petty gifts from humans, a mere speck in the universe, is beyond me. But you would still have the right to be egotistical i suppose.

Right, but one can do and what one should do are often very different things. Also, in order to be egotistical, you must have a desire/need. You must have a void to fill. People who are egotistical are insecure, and they always need to show off what they consider their positive attributes to keep the focus off of their short comings. Someone who is secure about themselves does not worry what others think about themselves. I mean, just how insecure do you have to be to be so incredibly powerful, and yet piss yourself when a single lowly creature does not acknowledge your existance, or your supposed right to be told how wonderful you are?

The real question is why does the creator of the universe need us at all. How pointless, this whole "experiment." He gives us an earth so we can eat, ****, procreate, and worship him, WTF, why? Just end it, we'd all be at peace. As much as theists claim that god is loving and all that business, they never EVER, answer the question: why the hell would god care about such a small planet. Usually you hear the answer: because he loves us and made us in his image. And i'd ask: what have we done to merit being loved? And what exactly does it mean to be made in his image. Vague answers abound.

whatever.

I know, this is one thing that they can never understand. That in order to create us, he must have yet another void in himself. He can only do this for himself, since before we existed, there was nothing but him. No needs but his own.

[LunicaAshes]

It is important to understand that action by itself can be meaningless, even wicked, if done for the wrong reasons.

The pharisees, for example, were righteous men by appearance, though Jesus detested their wicked hearts. They gave grand donations to the temple, but when a poor woman donated what was a very small sum of money, he proclaimed that she gave more than what anyone else had.

It was for such men that Jesus said the prostitutes would enter heaven before they would, and that they would receive the greater damnation.

A person that says in their heart that there is no God has allowed their self to be deceived, and because of that, none of the things they do, they do for the right reasons. Action by itself is dead. You are making a judgment based solely on a persons outside appearances, and that is not suffecient.

So a person who killed babies, TRULY believing that it was god's will, is acting morally... While I am acting immorally by helping children overcome mental disorders, simply because I am going it alone rather than believing in some deity?

[AKR]

It is important to understand that action by itself can be meaningless, even wicked, if done for the wrong reasons.

The pharisees, for example, were righteous men by appearance, though Jesus detested their wicked hearts. They gave grand donations to the temple, but when a poor woman donated what was a very small sum of money, he proclaimed that she gave more than what anyone else had.

It was for such men that Jesus said the prostitutes would enter heaven before they would, and that they would receive the greater damnation.

A person that says in their heart that there is no God has allowed their self to be deceived, and because of that, none of the things they do, they do for the right reasons. Action by itself is dead. You are making a judgment based solely on a persons actions, and that is not suffecient.

You're still saying that it really doesn't matter that you're helping people, unless you're doing it FOR A GOD. That's f*cked up, if you ask me. I guess since i'm an atheist, I shouldn't ever do anything for anyone, because I don't believe in god. How is that NOT egotistical and incredibly selfish? You're basically admitting that god could care less how much you do for other people if you're not doing it for HIM.

[Uninspired123]

Right, but one can do and what one should do are often very different things.

Well that may be true for a human. But when you create the rules, you can also bend them such that what you can do and what you should do are one and the same. Most theists get backed up into a corner and would have to admit at this point that god essentially does whatever he wants and that it's correct. Might makes right. To humans, that doesn't seem correct, but god can make it correct for himself. I think you're making the mistake of extending our feelings and limitations to god.

Also, in order to be egotistical, you must have a desire/need. You must have a void to fill. People who are egotistical are insecure, and they always need to show off what they consider their positive attributes to keep the focus off of their short comings. Someone who is secure about themselves does not worry what others think about themselves. I mean, just how insecure do you have to be to be so incredibly powerful, and yet piss yourself when a single lowly creature does not acknowledge your existance, or your supposed right to be told how wonderful you are?

I agree with this in the sense that a truly powerful creator would never need to be worshipped or create us in the first place because he's entirely self-sufficient. THe fact that we're here, assuming there is a god (which there isn't LAWL), kind of invalidates the idea of a perfect or even powerful god because that suggests that god "needs" us or is "reliant" on us. That makes him a weak god at best as you're suggesting. But yea overall i agree with this point, the way god acts is not consistent with the idea of a powerful creator. It's a weak egotistical creator that has many voids within itself, if it exists at all.

[Uninspired123]

A person that says in their heart that there is no God has allowed their self to be deceived, and because of that, none of the things they do, they do for the right reasons. Action by itself is dead. You are making a judgment based solely on a persons actions, and that is not suffecient.

Actions speak louder than words.

edit: except in Christianity. In Christianity words speak louder than actions apparently. Great religion really.

[Beatitude]

So a person who killed babies, TRULY believing that it was god's will, is acting morally... While I am acting immorally by helping children overcome mental disorders, simply because I am going it alone rather than believing in some deity?

A person that believes killing babies, such as a doctor performing abortions, is God's will has allowed them self to be deceived as well. Simply believing in God by itself isn't righteousness. Satan believes in God, and he is the most infamous of sinners. The pharisees in my example above also believed in God, but that will serve them nothing.

James 2: 14-24:
Faith and Deeds
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.

You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

[Beatitude]

bump for an answer.

Actions speak louder than words.

edit: except in Christianity. In Christianity words speak louder than actions apparently. Great religion really.

I have no clue where you are getting this from.

[AKR]

Well that may be true for a human. But when you create the rules, you can also bend them such that what you can do and what you should do are one and the same. Most theists get backed up into a corner and would have to admit at this point that god essentially does whatever he wants and that it's correct. Might makes right. To humans, that doesn't seem correct, but god can make it correct for himself. I think you're making the mistake of extending our feelings and limitations to god.

I disagree that god can make it "correct." I don't see how have power makes something right. I disagree with absolute morality, but I do think that we can judge a being by logic, and see if their character even makes sense. Does it make sense that an omniscient/omnipotent god would also being insecure? Does it make sense that such a god would have a desire to punish creatures because of that insecurity? No, and that's as far as it matters, concerning this. You can't make logic out of illogic, and I find the idea of this god illogical.

[Uninspired123]

I have no clue where you are getting this from.

Gimme a break man. I can accept jesus to the full extent of my "heart" and do whatever the hell i want. You know this. You can say you love jesus and act the complete opposite and it doesn't matter. This has been discussed a 1000 times.

in christianity, words speak louder than actions.

[Uninspired123]

Again i agree with all this, the
attributes of god are inconsistent with omnipotence and omniscience:

Does it make sense that an omniscient/omnipotent god would also being insecure? Does it make sense that such a god would have a desire to punish creatures because of that insecurity? No, and that's as far as it matters, concerning this. You can't make logic out of illogic, and I find the idea of this god illogical.

This is what I disagree with:

I disagree that god can make it "correct." I don't see how have power makes something right. I disagree with absolute morality, but I do think that we can judge a being by logic, and see if their character even makes sense.

In this argument we're assuming a god exists. It's conceivable that this god can exclude himself from morality. If such a god exists why can't he make it such that morals only apply to humans. You're also making a false assumption drawing parallels between human-human interaction and that morality and god-human interaction/morality. Truth is we know what morality means in terms of human-human interaction based on evolutionarily and culturally given inner moral compass (whatever morals ensure greatest species survival rate.) However, we can't pretend to know what god-human or even god- god interaction morality looks like. We have no reference or data set that even defines what a god's morality should be like. Our morality has a purpose, to ensure species survival, a god has no morality or even moral compass because there's no definition of morality for that god anyway. Morality is defined by us because it serves a certain purpose. God has no purpose other than to exist, no such thing as morality, anything goes because in the grand scheme, whatever he does is irrelevant. He's stuck in this universe, doesn't matter what he does.

[Beatitude]

Why would I fantasize about a stoned, careless god?

I don't know.

God's supposed intervention is a testament to a god that doesn't really give a **** about anyone but himself. If he did, he would f*ck off and never have created people in this environment in the first place. He wouldn't doom people for not worshipping him. Nothing in your post counters the fact that a being who punishes those who do not worship him is the very epitomy of egotism.

You are accusing One that has absolute sovereignty over everything as egotistical, which doesn't really make any sense. You are his offspring, he created you, before everything around you even existed, he knew who you were. Every breathe you breath is a blessing, and it is so unfortunate that you do not have thanks to God for this, because such a seemingly simple thing as realizing that is such a joy.

You are accusing a God that could have smitten every person that chose wickedness before they even physically came into this world to willingly insult and blaspheme him day by day as being egotistical. He tolerates insult after insult by beings that don't even deserve to exist by their own merit. Yet he remains forgiving and patient, even taking great pleasure when one repents and comes back to him.

You're still saying that it really doesn't matter that you're helping people, unless you're doing it FOR A GOD. That's f*cked up, if you ask me. I guess since i'm an atheist, I shouldn't ever do anything for anyone, because I don't believe in god. How is that NOT egotistical and incredibly selfish? You're basically admitting that god could care less how much you do for other people if you're not doing it for HIM.

On the contrary, whatever you do not do to your brothers or sisters is as though you did not do it to God, and whatever you do to your brothers or sisters is as though you did it to God. That is how much it matters. But a person that truly seeks what is truth acknowledges that all goodness comes from God. Loving God and loving your fellow brothers and sisters are in harmony with one another.

Matthew 25: 31-45:
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

[US_Ranger]

Finally, an anti-God thread......for the 10th time today.

[Uninspired123]

You are accusing a God that could have smitten every person that chose wickedness before they even physically came into this world to willingly insult and blaspheme him day by day as being egotistical. He tolerates insult after insult by beings that don't even deserve to exist by their own merit. Yet he remains forgiving and patient, even taking great pleasure when one repents and comes back to him.

^^^^ wut beautitude said. If we're assuming a god truly exists, anything goes. If a god truly existed, he could do as he pleased. Even if he did something that completely sucked for us, what does it matter, his universe, his rules, nothing really matters at that point. Good thing god doesn't exist for this very reason.

[Uninspired123]

Nobody forced you to open this thread!

that's the third time i've seen him post that in the past day or two. I don't know why he's trolling.

[Beatitude]

Gimme a break man. I can accept jesus to the full extent of my "heart" and do whatever the hell i want. You know this. You can say you love jesus and act the complete opposite and it doesn't matter. This has been discussed a 1000 times.

in christianity, words speak louder than actions.

Yes, it does matter. I believe I just showed scripture above that says that faith that is not accompanied by action is dead. If you think Jesus' blood gives a person a license to free immorality, then read Jude.

[US_Ranger]

Nobody forced you to open this thread!

Nobody forced you to respond to my post.

I find it funny how sad your lives must be (not necessarily you but the thread starters lately) who have to continually attack a religion they don't follow and a god figure they don't believe in. I don't believe in Santa Claus but that doesn't mean that I'm going to start 3 threads a day attacking people who do. And if you honestly think you're that much smarter for being an atheist, why do you have to talk down to us retarded religious people? I'm smarter than a cockroach but I don't have conversations with them. Are you that arrogant that you have to talk down to people constantly? Or is it that you're terrified of having nothing after you die so you feel the only way to counter that fear is to lash out at those who do believe? I honestly feel sorry for some of you guys, it must be a sad existence to make new threads numerous times a day telling religious people and God how worthless they are.

[US_Ranger]

that's the third time i've seen him post that in the past day or two. I don't know why he's trolling.

Cry much?

[Uninspired123]

Yes, it does matter. I believe I just showed scripture above that says that faith that is not accompanied by action is dead. If you think Jesus' blood gives a person a license to free immorality, then read Jude.

Could you go ahead and quantify that for me? How little of faith do I need for my actions to become validated under this Christian system. Technically i don't 100% deny jesus. In fact, i don't think anyone that's heard of Jesus denies him 100% as there's still a chance he could have been telling the truth. Is this little faith enough? If not, why not? If so, great. If you can't quantify it for me, how is anyone supposed to know how much faith is necessary or what the requirements are? If God is some teacher giving an assignment, as is usually given as an analogy for God, how is anyone supposed to know how much they need to pass when everything is so vague?

[Uninspired123]

Cry much?

Stop trolling and derailing the thread. thanks.

[studmuffinuk]

In other news, people of the international community mourned the loss of a beloved horse after a brutal death by flogging.

[Beatitude]

^^^^ wut beautitude said. If we're assuming a god truly exists, anything goes. If a god truly existed, he could do as he pleased. Even if he did something that completely sucked for us, what does it matter, his universe, his rules, nothing really matters at that point. Good thing god doesn't exist for this very reason.

I'm also glad that the god you are describing doesn't exist.

[Uninspired123]

I'm also glad that the god you are describing doesn't exist.

I agree, the Judeo-Christian god does not exist.

just screwin with ya, B

[basshead444]

A person that believes killing babies, such as a doctor performing abortions, is God's will has allowed them self to be deceived as well. Simply believing in God by itself isn't righteousness. Satan believes in God, and he is the most infamous of sinners. The pharisees in my example above also believed in God, but that will serve them nothing.

James 2: 14-24:
Faith and Deeds
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.

You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Give a Satan man a chance

[US_Ranger]

Stop trolling and derailing the thread. thanks.

Hold on a second. I have to go make 15 threads about how much I hate Santa when I don't even believe in him. I'll cry like a little bitch and throw a tantrum about how evil he is and how I'm much smarter than the people who believe in him. After that I'll go to sleep happy. Tomorrow I'll wake up and do the same thing over again........but remember.....that's not trolling!