Noobie Suppliment Questions (creatine+protein+glutamine+etc), I searched first!

[SpiXe]

I got a ton of stupid newbie questions, but first things first, I researched, read, and searched my arse off for any answer I can find. Read daym near every article on bodybuilding.com as well as google'd it everywhere else. So please don't flame me for these questions if I happened to miss it. For the most part, I got alot of it worked out; routine, schedule, time-tables, etc. But I've come across alot of unanswered questions, or contradicting articles as well. Most of these are just confirmations anyways. So if someone can spare a second, and just jot a quick answer (yes, no, or even a single sentence), I would be VERY greatful.

1. I've read that creatine should be taken 30 min before lifting, and 30 min after. But if taken pre & post workout, if the workout is only 45 minutes, wouldn't that go against the recommend wait time between servings (3-4 hours)? So ignore that recommendation?
2. I've also read that creatine should be taken 30-60 min before meals. Elsewhere I read it should be taken once in the morning, and once post workout. What's most beneficial?
3. I do cardio twice a day, every day (morning/evening), 45 min each (exercise bike) and only weight train twice a week. Since there's real no 'post workout' time for lifting and taking creatine on aerobic days, is there a particular strategy recommended for when I should take creatine in conjunction with aerobic activity?
4. I've read creatine can be more effective if taken with grape juice and others saying with orange juice. It sounds like if your stomach can handle the acid, and if you drink it fast enough (so it wont turn into creatinine), orange juice is better, because grape juice has more free fructose that easily transforms to fat storage. And then gatoraid has been recommended, but it seems that it might have too high a GI count in comparison to the others. Is this a correct assumption?
6. I've read Whey Protein AND Creatine should be taken BEFORE lifting, and Whey Protein, Creatine, AND Glutamine should be taken AFTER lifting. Some say its safe to just combine them all together, however I've also read protein and creatine should be taken an hour apart from each other. So... um... which one? If combined, should I double the amount of liquid added to about 20 ounces (since both require 8-10 ounces)? If mixing, it still ok to mix it with juices?
7. I've read that supposedly taking caffeine fat burners and creatine can cancel each other out. What about creatine with Yohimbe (or fat burners containing yohimbe)?
8. Is it ok to take Yohimbe capsules with other Fat Burners such as Lipo 6, Hydroxycut, Xenodryne, etc?
9. Should I still have a "simple snack" every 2-3 hours (eat 6 times a day), even when taking protein, creatine, and glutamine 4 x day? It seems some places say that just the protein shake is a suitable 'meal' for some of those 6 times a day.
10. Can creatine powder just sitting on a shelf break down into creatinine after too long (maybe several months)?
11. I've read theis supps should be taken before bed; Yohimbe (60 min), Flax Seed oil (60 min), Glutamine (30 min), Whey Protein (60 min). Is it ok for all of these to be basically taken together?

These are what I'm working with:
Creatine (AST Micronized)
Whey Protein (Optimum 100%)
Glutamine Powder (Prolab)
Yohimbe Fuel (Twinlab)
Multivitamins (Twinlab)
Flaxseed Oil (Optimum)

Just getting a handle on the basics is like studying for a BS in it. I understand many people post the same questions day in and day out, and I tried my best to not be one of those people. If someone can just skim it just reply to whatever is easiest, I would be very grateful. Thanks a ton
-RJ - Stubborn endomorph who's determined to look like a mesomorph

[Bill Gates]

Long post, I didn't read it to the end (sorry)
but don't waste ur money on glutamine...
and read this article about creatine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm
part of this article:

After A Nights Sleep

After a nights sleep, the body is in a fasted stated due to a period of natural GH pulses (about half of your daily total GH production is released during the first 4 hours of sleep) and a prolonged period without nutrients. This results in an up-regulation of nutrient transporters and enzymes which favor intramuscular uptake of nutrients, including Creatine.

Ingestion 45-90 Minutes Before A Work-out

When Creatine is ingested 45-90 minutes before a work-out, an athlete can take advantage of the training induced increases in blood flow to muscle tissue to transport essential nutrients across muscle cell membranes. (This also acts as a buffer to lactic acid).

Since high intensity work-outs trigger the release of adrenal hormones such as Epinephrine and Norepinephrine, the cellular uptake of nutrients is improved. Remember, Ephedrine increases cellular uptake? Well Ephedrine is an Epinephrine Mimicker.

The First 45-90 Minutes Following A Work-out

Within the first 45-90 minutes following an intense work-out, the body is in a very nutrient receptive state. Heavy training reduces muscle glycogen stores (glycogen comes from blood sugars such as carbs) and receptor-sites for nutrients become sensitive.

This means the body is in a catabolic state requiring nutrient supply. Several storage enzymes are up-regulated and creatine (CP) levels are lower which of course means intramuscular nutrient storage ability is at a high level. It also means the muscle cells need ATP regeneration.

[SpiXe]

Thanks Bill Gates. I've also read that page linked to. Just so many contradictions is all... So technically, as opposed to the 2 times a day for the usual maintaining phase, it'd actually be better to take creatine 3 times a day (wake up, pre workout, and post workout) right? Just wanna confirm. That's what all those questions are are, merely confirmations for the most part. I tried do do my research

[IronPimper]

I got a ton of stupid newbie questions, but first things first, I researched, read, and searched my arse off for any answer I can find. Read daym near every article on bodybuilding.com as well as google'd it everywhere else. So please don't flame me for these questions if I happened to miss it. For the most part, I got alot of it worked out; routine, schedule, time-tables, etc. But I've come across alot of unanswered questions, or contradicting articles as well. Most of these are just confirmations anyways. So if someone can spare a second, and just jot a quick answer (yes, no, or even a single sentence), I would be VERY greatful.

1. I've read that creatine should be taken 30 min before lifting, and 30 min after. But if taken pre & post workout, if the workout is only 45 minutes, wouldn't that go against the recommend wait time between servings (3-4 hours)? So ignore that recommendation?
2. I've also read that creatine should be taken 30-60 min before meals. Elsewhere I read it should be taken once in the morning, and once post workout. What's most beneficial?
3. I do cardio twice a day, every day (morning/evening), 45 min each (exercise bike) and only weight train twice a week. Since there's real no 'post workout' time for lifting and taking creatine on aerobic days, is there a particular strategy recommended for when I should take creatine in conjunction with aerobic activity?
4. I've read creatine can be more effective if taken with grape juice and others saying with orange juice. It sounds like if your stomach can handle the acid, and if you drink it fast enough (so it wont turn into creatinine), orange juice is better, because grape juice has more free fructose that easily transforms to fat storage. And then gatoraid has been recommended, but it seems that it might have too high a GI count in comparison to the others. Is this a correct assumption?
6. I've read Whey Protein AND Creatine should be taken BEFORE lifting, and Whey Protein, Creatine, AND Glutamine should be taken AFTER lifting. Some say its safe to just combine them all together, however I've also read protein and creatine should be taken an hour apart from each other. So... um... which one? If combined, should I double the amount of liquid added to about 20 ounces (since both require 8-10 ounces)? If mixing, it still ok to mix it with juices?
7. I've read that supposedly taking caffeine fat burners and creatine can cancel each other out. What about creatine with Yohimbe (or fat burners containing yohimbe)?
8. Is it ok to take Yohimbe capsules with other Fat Burners such as Lipo 6, Hydroxycut, Xenodryne, etc?
9. Should I still have a "simple snack" every 2-3 hours (eat 6 times a day), even when taking protein, creatine, and glutamine 4 x day? It seems some places say that just the protein shake is a suitable 'meal' for some of those 6 times a day.
10. Can creatine powder just sitting on a shelf break down into creatinine after too long (maybe several months)?
11. I've read theis supps should be taken before bed; Yohimbe (60 min), Flax Seed oil (60 min), Glutamine (30 min), Whey Protein (60 min). Is it ok for all of these to be basically taken together?

These are what I'm working with:
Creatine (AST Micronized)
Whey Protein (Optimum 100%)
Glutamine Powder (Prolab)
Yohimbe Fuel (Twinlab)
Multivitamins (Twinlab)
Flaxseed Oil (Optimum)

Just getting a handle on the basics is like studying for a BS in it. I understand many people post the same questions day in and day out, and I tried my best to not be one of those people. If someone can just skim it just reply to whatever is easiest, I would be very grateful. Thanks a ton
-RJ - Stubborn endomorph who's determined to look like a mesomorph

1,2,3 and 4 - creatine should be taken every day because your goal is to saturate your body. 2 times per day is fine, you do not need 3 unless you are using mono and you want to "load up." keep in mind this is NOT necessary. As for when, morning, preworkout, and postworkout are all good times. Pick 2, try them, then try a different 2, then try the last 2. Whichever one gives you the best results, stick with that. If you train in the morning, it will be easy since you can take creatine with breakfast before you train then again postworkout.

The most important part of any of these 3 questions is about the food. YOU HAVE TO take creatine with sugars/carbs for absorbtion if it is creatine mono. If it is cee or kre this is not absolutely necessary, but if you want results from mono you need grape juice, orange juice, gatorade, or milk or something like that. If you are taking it in the morning and postworkout you don't have to worry about fat storage since your glycogen levels will be depleted.

5 - you can take all of that stuff together if you want, it does not matter. In fact, if you want you can take glutamine in the morning, preworkout, postworkout, and before bed. It's up to you. Really its main effects are to avoid catabolism and to improved recovery, so i like it preworkout, postworkout, and before bed. 5g each time.

6 - the problem is taking creatine and caffeine at the same time. which means if you take lipo 6 with breakfast, then you can't take creatine with breakfast. if you take your lipo 6 preworkout, then you shouldn't take creatine preworkout. My suggestion, take your lipo 6 twice a day, once on an empty stomach in the morning, then again in the early afternoon. take your creatine with breakfast about an hour after the lipo 6, then take your creatine post workout. the reason for this is that creatine and caffeine battle for absorbtion, which means one will lose. Yohimbe and creatine have no negative interaction that i know of.

7- Yes you can take additional yohimbe, though you should go with yohimbe hcl. If you take lipo 6, it has about 6mg of yhcl per serving, so in a day you might take in 12-15mg of yhcl. You would not want to supplement more than another 10mg of yhcl. More than 30mg of yhcl can be toxic. I'd stick with 20-25mg per day

8 - If you are taking in 4 protein shakes a day, i think that's too many. you should be eating some food. each protein shake should count as a meal, or at least 3/4 of a meal. I would stick to 2 shakes per day, 3 max.

9 - bulk creatine powder is designed to last many months. the breakdown occurs when you digest it. it will be fine for 6 months.

10 - glutamine is fine before bed, but i would not take whey before bed. cassein protein or milk would be a much better choice. you want a slow digesting protein, whey is digested very quickly. i would not take yohimbe before bed, it's a stimulant, that would make it hard to sleep. flax seed oil should be taken before bed, you could put a tablespoon of flax, a cup of milk, and a scoop of cassein protein in a blender and make a nighttime shake.


BTW: I think that you are far too concerned about supplements at this point. You only lift one day a week and do cardio. I would replace some of your second cardio sessions with weights, unless you are going to be a 2 mile track star. That is hardly an efficient program regardless of your goals. Also, I don't see why you are drinking so many protein shakes. People who drink 4 shakes are usually eating 8 total meals and trying to take in 5000+ calories. just my .02 cents, hope this all helps

[SpiXe]

Awesome IronPimp, Thanks a ton for those answers.

As for your answers to #1-4, you said I have to take creatine with sugar/carbs for max absorbtion. So taking it with water is not recommended by you no matter what time of day?

Your answer to #7 (yohimbe) really threw me off. The "servings per capsule" on the Yohimbe bottle state 400mg. You said any more than 30 can be toxic.

As for the protein shakes (#8), I've read so many places that it should be taken 3-5 times a day. Even the math makes since, calculating someone of my body weight/type should get about 120g per day. Each serving/scoop is approx 25g. So by my logic it seemed reasonable having a protein shake up to 5 times a day would hit the goal of 120g. Bad math?
-So it can/should be counted as a meal correct? Where optimaly one would eat 6 small meals a day, it would in fact be better eating 3 times a day and then the protein shakes 3 times a day?

It seems alot of places recommend taking protein before bed. Guess it didn't specificly say "but not whey protein". Since that's all I have, I guess that won't be an option for me. =] And I work out with weights twice a week (45 min), not one time. It used to be 3, but then of course I keep reading one should give their muscles 2-3days rest for optimum recovery. So I dropped it to twice a week. I would start doing 3 again (mon-wed-fri) if it'll be beneficial though. I just thought it wouldn't be. =P

[IronPimper]

You can mix your creatine with water, but you would need to also drink grape juice, orange juice, gatorade, etc. I think it's just better to toss it in the gatorade or whatever you have.

The yohimbe you have is yohimbe extract, not yohimbe hcl. If you are taking yohimbe extract in 400mg caps, then you need to take 6-8 per day. Yohimbe hcl should not exceed 25-30mg, yohimbe extract should not exceed 5g.

You should only be concerned with total protein intake, total fat intake, and total caloric intake. I don't know how much you weigh, but if you are trying to gain good muscle you should be taking in 1-1.25g of protein per lb of lean muscle mass. So if you weight 150lbs, then you would want to take in about 150-180g of protein. You should get about 30% of this from protein shakes, so 50-60g. That's 2 shakes, 3 at the most. Solid food is better for you at every time of the day except post workout and before bed. Ideally, you would eat like this:

breakfast, solid foods
2nd meal, solid foods
preworkout, solid foods
postworkout, whey shake
post postworkout, solid foods
nighttime meal, cassein shake...if you don't have cassein, then mix your whey in milk.

You can definately use weights more than 2 times per week. You seem new to all of this, so you could do something like this:

Mon: Chest + cardio
Tues: Back
Wed: off/cardio
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Arms + cardio
Sat: Legs
Sun: off/cardio

That would be a much better workout routine than what you are currently doing. Hope that helps.

[SpiXe]

Very kewl IronPimp, Thanks again.
I weigh about 165, so following what you laid out sounds pretty good. The yohimbe extract suggestion sounds crazy, because the bottle says take 1 cap 2 times a day, as opposed to 6-8. =] About the protein real fast (sorry), if I should take around 70 grams of protein (via whey) a day, wouldn't it be more beneficial to spread it over 3 servings of 20-25 grams each, rather than 2 of 30-35? Aside from that...

When working with weights, I only work out the upper body. Chest, traps, delts, biceps, etc, all at the same time, which is why I only do it twice a week. Give it all a couple days rest, and do it again. After years of martial arts, I feel my legs are already big enough and worked enough as it is, plus they get a large workout from all the aerobic biking.

Yeah I admit it, I'm very new to the whole "organized" workout thing, in combination with a 'counting' diet (carbs, fat, etc) in combination with using suppliments. It used to always just be an ECA stack with just practicing martial arts everyday. I don't have that now, and I started gaining weight fast. I was able to work some off, but still not getting the cut results I really want. So I need to get more serious. It's just so hard to just 'read up' when there are stacks of information all contradicting each other. Thanks a ton for your help and advice. Truly appreciated.

[IronPimper]

The label recommendation on some of those things aren't always accurate. Only testing the product by starting with a low dose then working your way up will tell you how much to take. I'd start with 2 caps, see how it works, then bump it up as need be.

You don't need to spread the protein out, 30-35g of protein per shake is great. Take 1 scoop of powder, but it in 8-10 ounces of milk and bingo, you have 35-40g of protein.

You don't have to do legs, but working out your entire upper body 2 times a week is a poor workout. Firstly, you need to seperate your biceps from your back and you need to seperate your triceps from your chest. Since you are working them all on the same day it's hard to get a good workout for each of them. I'd say try this:

Mon: Chest/cardio
Tues: Back
Wed: off/cardio
Thur: Shoulders
Fri: off/cardio
Sat: Arms
Sun: off/cario

[SpiXe]

Sounds kewl. But I actually don't mind doing aerobic 2 times a day (usually watch a good 45 min tv show each time), and sometimes 3 (do a extra 20 min in the morning). My main concern is to lose the fat, and have a more cut look. My upper body has gained noticeably since I started working with weights, and I'm happy with it. If creatine helps gain more stregth/bulk then all the more better. Right now I'm trying to burn more calories than I consume to drop the fat, while keeping the muscle. All the aerobic I do can't hurt at least right? =) Weight lifting for me though is harder, because I'm confined in my house, in which case I only have dumbells. No bench, no bars, etc. Each dumbell is adjustable up to 25kg, so I'm pretty limited on what I can do. But I'll try increasing lifting to 3 times a week, while focusing on a different muscle group each time. Thanks a ton through your advice through all this, especially taking the time to help a noob like me (thats the part no one likes to do). Your a true guru.