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Thread: Al Majlis

  1. #901
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    Here are more pictures. You may ask how would i know this will scar. I tell you logically lol. But i also ask how do you know that it wont scar up. So yes permanet damage.


    Please watch the content of what you post here. Al Majlis is a place where believers gather to discuss issues in a dignified manner.

    For guidelines see:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...83&postcount=5
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    It heals , that doesnt mean it will not leave a scar.
    Right... and?

    Friend im from Iraq , you think i dont know what the Shiites do to themselves.
    It does not heal , i have seen it being done infront of me. It leaves scars all of the back (when they use steel chain) , and scars on the head. They know it hurts , but they think its for the best.
    Does it cause permanent damage?
    If so, it's forbidden.
    However, leaving marks is not a sign of permanent damage.
    For example, the prophet (pbuh) stated the callus on the hands of a hard working poor man was a sign of piety. Thus, simply a mark is not a sign of damage.
    Causing permanent harm or damage to one's body is fobidden.

    Here are more pictures , please dont tell me this doesnt scar. Because honestly that will just sound weird.
    and?
    By posting pictures what are you trying to demonstrate/prove?
    Yes, they bleed and no one is denying it.

    Friend , do you think i dont know what a salafist is? Ive read what ever you have posted , and showed you , that you are wrong. Please read it again.
    You haven't showed me anything, other than baseless assumptions of yours.
    Nonetheless, you are entitled to your opinions.
    I am not here to change your opinions.

    Btw , may i ask why you ignored many points i notifited in the other post? You stated i dont go pictures ex. But i answered most your questions
    ??
    Which points?
    I answered what I noticed.
    If I have missed them, post them again and I will adress them.

    We believe in Ahlul Bayt , believe me . We also believe in the companions and the followers of the prophet. Yes they had problems , but that comes with every human. We try to ignore that and see what they did in life. But you on the other hand took it serious and ignored the fact of their help to our religion.
    We don't ignore the oppression and the zulm against ahlul bayt.
    I know you do ignore it and push it under the rug, but we do not.
    We consider the family of the prophet (pbut) to be absolutely purified and the right authority to be followed, and any form of oppression, tyranny and misconduct against them is neither ignored nor accepted by us.

    We have not ignored ANYthing. We follow the people who are divinely appointed by God and who have been absolutely purified by God in order to guide the masses towards God, after the prophet (pbuh).

    "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (33:33)


    So i can smack myself and get deeds? Id rather say Allah is Great 100 times or read the surat al Kursee , and be protected from hell fire .
    If you "smack" yourself with the right intention, you will be rewarded.
    On the other hand, if you do not have the intention you won't be rewarded. Similarly, if you fast and pray and go to hajj without the right intention, you won't be rewarded for them either.


    You could do as you wish.
    I often say, God is the most just and He will judge between us, and God knows best.


    What divine gifts? He was a strong believer , a strong muslim , a powerful man and a great contribution to Islam. He is a human, and the follower of the prophet. Exactly like us.

    "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (33:33)


    This is the divine gift, bestowed upon prophets and the ahlul al bayt, peace be upon them all.

    He is not exactly like us, in the same way that the prophet is not exactly like us. He is among the chosen ones who has been purified, and we are not.
    Last edited by TranceNRG; 01-09-2008 at 12:05 AM.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by Amu View Post
    Please watch the content of what you post here. Al Majlis is a place where believers gather to discuss issues in a dignified manner.

    For guidelines see:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...83&postcount=5
    It's ok brother...
    These shallow and empty accusations, which are founded on baseless assumptions are nothing new to shias.
    Let our brother express his wishes and opinions.

    God knows best and God is the most just.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    For example, the prophet (pbuh) stated the callus on the hands of a hard working poor man was a sign of piety.
    Do deadlifts count?
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  5. #905
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    Here are more pictures. You may ask how would i know this will scar. I tell you logically lol. But i also ask how do you know that it wont scar up. So yes permanet damage.
    Where's the permanent damage?
    Can these people not function properly anymore?
    Can they not go to work the next day?
    Can they not eat anymore?
    Can they not walk anymore?
    Can they not reproduce anymore?
    What is permanently damaged?
    Minor scars on their skins?
    Will these scars prevent them from anything significant in life?


    So, once again I'll state, these pictures don't prove anything. Rather they are just ways to appeal to people's emotions, and produce a shock effect.
    Last edited by TranceNRG; 01-09-2008 at 12:08 AM.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by Amu View Post
    Do deadlifts count?

    If you do it with the right intention.
    I.e. preparing yourself to defend Islam
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    Where's the permanent damage?
    Can these people not function properly anymore?
    Can they not go to work the next day?
    Can they not eat anymore?
    Can they not walk anymore?
    Can they not reproduce anymore?
    What is permanently damaged?

    So, once again I'll state, these pictures don't prove anything. Rather they are just ways to appeal to people's emotions, and produce a shock effect.
    I think he was trying to state that the 2nd and 3rd pictures might be causing permanent brain damage. However, although there is plenty of blood, I don't see any deep wounds in the skull.

    You're the doctor, though
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  8. #908
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    Originally Posted by Amu View Post
    I think he was trying to state that the 2nd and 3rd pictures might be causing permanent brain damage. However, although there is plenty of blood, I don't see any deep wounds in the skull.

    You're the doctor, though
    once I become a doctor (God willing) I'll let you know.

    These cuts do not cause permanent harm, in the same sense that hijama on the head doesn't cause permanent harm. In hijama the blood is collected in a cup and in this case it's not. Therefore, it just seems harmful when it really is not.

    This picture posting tactic is nothing new.
    Anti-Islam people have used it against Islam as well.
    It's a simple, emotional way to readily pass by people's sense of logic and appeal straight to their emotions and shock them.


    Similarly, in discussions about the marriage between the Prophet (pbuh) and Aisha, people post pictures of 9 years old girls, in order to appeal to people's emotions and shock them.
    Last edited by TranceNRG; 01-08-2008 at 11:47 PM.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    once I become a doctor (God willing) I'll let you know.
    Sorry, it's just fun teasing you. You're still a bio major, aren't you?

    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    These cuts do not cause permanent harm, in the same sense that hijama on the head doesn't cause permanent harm. In hijama the blood is collected in a cup and in this case it's not. Therefore, it just seems harmful when it really is not.

    This picture posting tactic is nothing new.
    Anti-Islam people have used it against Islam as well.
    It's a simple, emotional way to readily pass by people's sense of logic and appeal straight to their emotions and shock them.


    Similarly, in discussions about the marriage between the Prophet (pbuh) and Aisha, people post pictures of 9 years old girls, in order to appeal to people's emotions and shock them.
    Yes, I agree with you

    I bet if Aisha hit puberty at 13 instead of at 9, there would be no "controversy," yet medically she would have been in the same state People play with numbers to create a shock effect.
    Last edited by Amu; 01-08-2008 at 11:57 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Amu View Post
    Sorry, it's just fun teasing you. You're still a bio major, aren't you?
    Bio AND philosophy. (Double Major)
    I enjoyed the philosophy major more.

    Yes, I agree with you

    I bet if Aisha hit puberty at 13 instead of at 9, there would be no "controversy," yet medically she would have been in the same state People play with numbers to create a shock effect.

    yes brother...
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    Bio AND philosophy. (Double Major)
    I enjoyed the philosophy major more.
    haha, I don't doubt that
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    Unhappy

    Latmyiah, a poetic recitation, about Imam Hussayn's Brother, Abbas (The Moon of Sons of Hashim).
    The title is "Dallooni Dallooni Wo'einel Gomer" i.e. "Guide me, Guide me, where is the Moon?".

    O God, I beseech you to send your Peace and blessings upon Muhammad and his Family, and hasten the re-appearance of their Mehdi

    The video also includes some clips fom various plays that are carried out every year to commemorate the sad event of Ashura, during the month of Muharram.

    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Muharram & Karbala

    Imam Husayn (A.S.), The Grandson of the Holy Prophet of Islam (S.A.W.),the Doyen of the Martyrs, the Chief of the Youth of Paradise, the second son of Imam Ali (A.S.) and Hadrat Fatimah Zahra (A.S.), the third Holy Imam of the Shi'ites was martyred along with his 72 faithful followers on Tenth of Muharram (Ashura), 61 Hijrah in Karbala (Iraq) and saved Islam from complete destruction by his great sacrifice.


    On this Sorrowful and Mourning Occasion of the Martyrdom Anniversary of Imam Husayn(A.S.) and his 72 faithful followers we express our Heartfelt Grief and Condolences to the 1800 Millions Strong Muslim Ummah and all the freedom-loving and oppressed people in the world.




    To view large collection of online Islamic information concerning to the month of Muharram and the tragedy of Karbala.
    Click Here
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    As salamu alaykum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatu
    Brothers, please watch the content of the pictures you post, as they many contain graphic contents which is against forum rules.
    Regardless, I personally can't see how posting pictures (that we've all previously seen before) could serve the purpose of constructive debate.

    That said, comparing Zanjeer Zani to cupping is a void comparison. Cupping, as bloody as it may seem is a CONTROLLED procedure that has been medically approved nowadays with some equivalent modern procedures that serve the same purpose.
    On the other hand, Zanjeer Zani or other hurtful forms of mourning is just an act of hurting oneself as a form of mourning. I am not suggesting that Muslims should stop remembering the martyrdom of Imam Hussein and mourning him, but we should not inflict harm- whether permanent or transient- upon ourselves to mourn him.
    In mourning, we should follow the in the footsteps of Ahlul Bayt and the companions and I believe Lady Zaynab in her extreme state of mourning her dear brother, neither ordered nor participated in actions similar to Zanjeer Zani.

    The fact that such a practice is carried out by fellow-Muslims doesn't automatically lend us an excuse to automatically defend them or compare the scars done by the Zanjeers to surgical incisions of apendicectomies and C-sections and call people who point out the obvious as those who seek to appeal to emotions!
    Such pictures should appeal to common sense an logic , before they appeal to emotions.

    Lastly, for most Shias, inflicting such harm during mourning is forbidden and I think I don't need to remind both sides that setting innovations in religion is the way to our ruin.

    http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofive...234918134.html

    I am sure Trance can provide more credible sources for different rulings, I would have tried to find more had I had more time on my hands.

    Wa alaykum al salam, everyone
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    Originally Posted by deeyala View Post
    As salamu alaykum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatu

    That said, comparing Zanjeer Zani to cupping is a void comparison. Cupping, as bloody as it may seem is a CONTROLLED procedure that has been medically approved nowadays with some equivalent modern procedures that serve the same purpose.

    On the other hand, Zanjeer Zani or other hurtful forms of mourning is just an act of hurting oneself as a form of mourning. I am not suggesting that Muslims should stop remembering the martyrdom of Imam Hussein and mourning him, but we should not inflict harm- whether permanent or transient- upon ourselves to mourn him.
    Wa Alaykumu Salam

    First, could you define transient harm?
    Second, could you provide Islamic proof about your claim in regards to transient harm?
    Third, the uncontrolled form of mourning as you implied is not a recent phenomenon. People have observed such practices for centuries and are aware of its effects. If it was accompanied by permanent harm then the Islamic scholars who are fully aware of the Islamic laws (i.e. harming oneself) would not permit such act. Yet, the oeverwhelming majority of the scholars have permitted it.

    In mourning, we should follow the in the footsteps of Ahlul Bayt and the companions and I believe Lady Zaynab in her extreme state of mourning her dear brother, neither ordered nor participated in actions similar to Zanjeer Zani.
    http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...i/en/chap9.php

    The fact that such a practice is carried out by fellow-Muslims doesn't automatically lend us an excuse to automatically defend them or compare the scars done by the Zanjeers to surgical incisions of apendicectomies and C-sections and call people who point out the obvious as those who seek to appeal to emotions!
    What is the obvious?
    Can you prove such practice causes permanent harm to the body?
    Further, can you prove Islam categorically forbids such action?

    Such pictures should appeal to common sense an logic , before they appeal to emotions.
    You're correct, they should.
    And logic dictates that there is nothing wrong with such activity.

    You must acknowledge, that your statement is often used by non-muslims against muslims in their arguments against Islam. (i.e. Marriage with Aisha, punishment for homosexuality and adultery and apostasy, permissibility of sex with female slaves and etc.)
    And as I stated earlier, posting pictures are the easiest way to pass by human logic and directly appeal to their emotions via the shock effect.

    Perhaps, in this case such tactic has been successful on you?


    When non-muslims post pictues and videos of female muslims being stoned, we are quick to point out the depth and importance of such ruling and such practice and we go to great lengths to elaborate and explain the permissibility and the logic behind such punishment, yet in this case, it seems we're quick to jump and condemn such permitted activity.

    Lastly, for most Shias, inflicting such harm during mourning is forbidden and I think I don't need to remind both sides that setting innovations in religion is the way to our ruin.
    False...
    The majority of scholars have permitted it.

    http://www.shirazi.org.uk/tatbir%20fatawa.htm

    http://www.al-islam.org/Organization.../msg00160.html
    http://www.al-islam.org/organization.../msg00165.html
    http://www.al-islam.org/Organization.../msg00572.html
    http://www.al-islam.org/Organization.../msg00163.html

    Ayatullah Seestani permits zanjeer matam provided there is no fear of loss of life or causing irreversible injury to any limb.

    Ayatullah Sayyid Ali Khamena'i made this ritual of qame zadan (hitting the head with a knife) haram by virtue of the harm it does to public image of Shi'ism. Also, Shaykh Shamsuddin and most probably even Ayat. Fadlullah have issued legal opinions similar to Ayat. Khamena'i. However, most of the prominent jurists have a different opinion. For instance, Ayat. Gulpaygani and Ayat. Araki allow the ritual of self-flagellation so long as there is no fear of loss of life or causing injury to any organ of the body. However, Ayat. Gulpaygani states that it is better to avoid this practise based on precaution (ihtiyat). They all emphasize that the commemmorative mourning ceremonies, that take different forms, must be kept alive to preserve the vitality of the symbol of Imam Husayn (a.s.). In all probability the legal opinions of Ayat. Khui and Seestani on this would be the same as Ayats. Araki and Gulpaygani.
    I am sure Trance can provide more credible sources for different rulings, I would have tried to find more had I had more time on my hands.

    Wa alaykum al salam, everyone
    Wa alaykumu Salam
    Last edited by TranceNRG; 01-09-2008 at 03:06 AM.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    Where's the permanent damage?
    Can these people not function properly anymore?
    Can they not go to work the next day?
    Can they not eat anymore?
    Can they not walk anymore?
    Can they not reproduce anymore?
    What is permanently damaged?
    Minor scars on their skins?
    Will these scars prevent them from anything significant in life?


    So, once again I'll state, these pictures don't prove anything. Rather they are just ways to appeal to people's emotions, and produce a shock effect.
    Honestly man , those are just weak points. So i can say i will amputate my leg , and i havent done permanent damage. I can do all the above. I can walk with an artifical leg. Sorry to say but they were just weak.

    You said im no doctor for not providing proof/what can happen to them.
    I dont need to be friend. You can tell those will scar. You can tell that is just over-religion. And you invovled Hijima with mourning. 2 differnet things that dont relate to each other what so ever.
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post

    You must acknowledge, that your statement is often used by non-muslims against muslims in their arguments against Islam. (i.e. Marriage with Aisha, punishment for homosexuality and adultery and apostasy, permissibility of sex with female slaves and etc.)
    And as I stated earlier, posting pictures are the easiest way to pass by human logic and directly appeal to their emotions via the shock effect.


    When non-muslims post pictues and videos of female muslims being stoned, we are quick to point out the depth and importance of such ruling and such practice and we go to great lengths to elaborate and explain the permissibility and the logic behind such punishment, yet in this case, it seems we're quick to jump and condemn such permitted activity.

    Brother some things in Islam , are a must. I dont think that what there doing here is wajib. You even stated it.

    When someone tries to diss at Islam , they use things that sound stupid to the human brain (so yes logically) but when they read about in depth they find it is normal. But here im not dissing Shia , if they can live peacefully with sunni's so be it. But they should try to stop the "We only believe in Ahl Al Bayt and we are the rightous" , and the broadcast of themselves physically hurting themselves.
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    Honestly man , those are just weak points. So i can say i will amputate my leg , and i havent done permanent damage. I can do all the above. I can walk with an artifical leg. Sorry to say but they were just weak.
    Can your leg heal and grow back?
    Having minor scars on your skin is VERY different from amputating one leg.

    Of course, you are entitled to your opinions.


    You said im no doctor for not providing proof/what can happen to them.
    I dont need to be friend. You can tell those will scar. You can tell that is just over-religion. And you invovled Hijima with mourning. 2 differnet things that dont relate to each other what so ever.
    And in your mind leaving minor scars is considered permanent harm?

    I've repeatedly mentioned that in both hijama and this practice much blood is let out of the body mainly via the head. In hijama the blood is collected in a cup and in this practice it is not. Hence, this practice due to the high visibility of blood seems more harmful, when it really is not.

    However, I am not stating that hijama and mourning are related. Rather when you use health issues as a basis of your argument, hijama could easily be used as a simple counter-example.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by Amu View Post
    Please watch the content of what you post here. Al Majlis is a place where believers gather to discuss issues in a dignified manner.

    For guidelines see:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...83&postcount=5
    But i thought this was Islam , the religion of peace? And if Shiites is the right way. Then lets show the annual celebrations/mournings dont you think?
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    Can your leg heal and grow back?
    Having minor scars on your skin is VERY different from amputating one leg.

    Of course, you are entitled to your opinions.



    And in your mind leaving minor scars is considered permanent harm?

    I've repeatedly mentioned that in both hijama and this practice much blood is let out of the body mainly via the head. In hijama the blood is collected in a cup and in this practice it is not. Hence, this practice due to the high visibility of blood seems more harmful, when it really is not.

    However, I am not stating that hijama and mourning are related. Rather when you use health issues as a basis of your argument, hijama could easily be used as a simple counter-example.
    minor/major scar damage is still considered permanent damage, im sure you would know that
    And believe me some pictures above dont leave small scars. lol.
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    Brother some things in Islam , are a must. I dont think that what there doing here is wajib. You even stated it.
    Correct.
    This is not a wajib, in the same sense that marrying 9 years old girls is not wajib in Islam, YET, they're both permitted. We canNOT forbid what GOD has not forbidden, regardless of how "shocking" it may seem to us, at first.

    When someone tries to diss at Islam , they use things that sound stupid to the human brain (so yes logically) but when they read about in depth they find it is normal.
    Brother...
    They only sound stupid to a muslim brain.

    Marrying a 9 years old girl often sounds "stupid" to most of non-muslim brains.
    Stoning homosexuals and adulterers not only sounds "stupid" to non-muslims, it sounds vicious and barbaric.
    Permissibility to have sex with limitless number of female war prisoners and slaves without marriage sounds "stupid" to non-muslim brains.
    and the list goes on...

    So, it's easy for you, in your muslim shoes, to say that all of their arguments are "stupid", whereas if you were in their shoes, all of muslim arguments would seem "stupid" and backward.

    But here im not dissing Shia , if they can live peacefully with sunni's so be it. But they should try to stop the "We only believe in Ahl Al Bayt and we are the rightous" , and the broadcast of themselves physically hurting themselves.
    Shiites DO only believe in the ahlul Bayt. As for who is righteous and who is not, each of us believe we belong to the righteous group.

    Although I may agree that there are better ways to mourn the martyrdom of Imam Husain (as), I cannot claim such form of mourning is forbidden, since I cannot speak against the majority of scholars, and I cannot consider an act forbidden when God has not forbidden it.


    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    But i thought this was Islam , the religion of peace? And if Shiites is the right way. Then lets show the annual celebrations/mournings dont you think?
    Then let us parade around the forum and post pictures and videos of females being stoned, homosexuals being hanged, hands being cut off, men marrying young girls and etc.

    After all these are all permitted in Islam, the religion of peace, correct?
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    minor/major scar damage is still considered permanent damage, im sure you would know that
    And believe me some pictures above dont leave small scars. lol.
    They maybe considered permanent change from the original state, but to call it a damage, you must demonstrate a reduction or termination in functionality.

    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    Correct.
    This is not a wajib, in the same sense that marrying 9 years old girls is not wajib in Islam, YET, they're both permitted. We canNOT forbid what GOD has not forbidden, regardless of how "shocking" it may seem to us, at first.



    Brother...
    They only sound stupid to a muslim brain.

    Marrying a 9 years old girl often sounds "stupid" to most of non-muslim brains.
    Stoning homosexuals and adulterers not only sounds "stupid" to non-muslims, it sounds vicious and barbaric.
    Permissibility to have sex with limitless number of female war prisoners and slaves without marriage sounds "stupid" to non-muslim brains.
    and the list goes on...

    So, it's easy for you, in your muslim shoes, to say that all of their arguments are "stupid", whereas if you were in their shoes, all of muslim arguments would seem "stupid" and backward.



    Shiites DO only believe in the ahlul Bayt. As for who is righteous and who is not, each of us believe we belong to the righteous group.

    Although I may agree that there are better ways to mourn the martyrdom of Imam Husain (as), I cannot claim such form of mourning is forbidden, since I cannot speak against the majority of scholars, and I cannot consider an act forbidden when God has not forbidden it.


    Yes brother i undestand

    Im just upset at the ways of shiites living in this time atm. You see in Iraq, iranian backed militas trying to take over government(which they have), they way they spread shiitism, and trying to take the holy city of Najaf and bind it to there own.

    This is one topic i can talk about , as im from Iraq. There have been many problems with arab-shiites and iranian-shiites. They both want to control the place. And in fact Iraq and spread there ways using dirty methods. So yes it sadens me.

    Not only Sunnis have been trying to get rid of them , Americans and arab-shiites , who clearly see what will happen if they do not. So yeh.
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    Then let us parade around the forum and post pictures and videos of females being stoned, homosexuals being hanged, hands being cut off, men marrying young girls and etc.

    After all these are all permitted in Islam, the religion of peace, correct?
    But most sunni/shiite scholars agree on all the above.
    Some shiite scholars dont agree with the type of mourning used in muharam , and certainly most/if not all sunni scholars .
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    Yes brother i undestand

    Im just upset at the ways of shiites living in this time atm. You see in Iraq, iranian backed militas trying to take over government(which they have), they way they spread shiitism, and trying to take the holy city of Najaf and bind it to there own.
    I am sorry to hear that.
    I know that politics is a dirty game, and often politicians employ religion to recruite masses in order to pursue their hidden and irreligious agendas.
    I just hope you do not judge the creed of Shia Islam, based on the actions of those who claim to be shias.

    Similarly, others must not judge Islam based on the actions of everyone who claims to be a muslim.

    It is best to study the classical and original scriptures and texts to evaluate and examine a belief system.

    This is one topic i can talk about , as im from Iraq. There have been many problems with arab-shiites and iranian-shiites. They both want to control the place. And in fact Iraq and spread there ways using dirty methods. So yes it sadens me.
    It saddens me as well brother.

    Not only Sunnis have been trying to get rid of them , Americans and arab-shiites , who clearly see what will happen if they do not. So yeh.

    As SK stated in another threat, If Iran hadn't done so, Americans would control these areas and use them as military bases for future attacks on Iran. So, politically speaking, Iran was faced with little to no choices but to intefere and prevent future attacks against itself.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    But most sunni/shiite scholars agree on all the above.
    Some shiite scholars dont agree with the type of mourning used in muharam , and certainly most/if not all sunni scholars .
    I understand...
    However, according to your logic, if it's allowed then it must be posted for everyone to see. Based on the same logic, we must expose all those other permitted actions as well via pictures and videos. But we do not. Why? because we understand that only those who wish to attack Islam would resort to such tactics.

    Last edited by TranceNRG; 01-09-2008 at 04:02 AM.
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    I understand...
    However, according to your logic, if it's allowed then it must be posted for everyone to see. Based on the same logic, we must expose all those other permitted actions as well via pictures and videos. But we do not. Why? because we understand that only those who wish to attack Islam would resort to such tactics.

    But wed rather have less of these attacking tactics , dont you think
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    Originally Posted by osamaelias View Post
    But wed rather have less of these attacking tactics , dont you think
    I do, do you?

    Because it seems you attacked shia Islam, in the same way that non-muslims attack Islam, via pictures and videos that appeal to emotions and aim to shock the viewers.

    If you have anymore questions about Shia Islam at any time, do not hesitate to ask.


    Alright Brother...
    I better get some sleep...

    I will talk to you soon
    Goodnight
    And David put his hand into his bag and took from it a stone and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead. And the stone sank into his forehead, so that he fell on his face to the ground.

    Thus, David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in Davidís hand.

    (1 Samuel 17:49-50)
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    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    I am sorry to hear that.
    I know that politics is a dirty game, and often politicians employ religion to recruite masses in order to pursue their hidden and irreligious agendas.
    I just hope you do not judge the creed of Shia Islam, based on the actions of those who claim to be shias.

    Similarly, others must not judge Islam based on the actions of everyone who claims to be a muslim.

    It is best to study the classical and original scriptures and texts to evaluate and examine a belief system.
    .
    Correct ,if they can live in peace , oh then im happy. Well happy trust me lol.




    Originally Posted by TranceNRG View Post
    As SK stated in another threat, If Iran hadn't done so, Americans would control these areas and use them as military bases for future attacks on Iran. So, politically speaking, Iran was faced with little to no choices but to intefere and prevent future attacks against itself.
    Right now i do not know who controls it. If you have heard of Muqtada Sadr and his mahdi army, he hates another army which are pro-shiites. Called the badr army. Who are ex-exiles who have been kicked from Iraq due to them being Iranian or helped the Iranians in the war. And they usually do have many Iranians working in their milita. These are usually the ones the Americans usually call the Iraqi force.
    It states there the mahdi army , its wrong , its the Badr army with the help of other shiites to attack a sunni mosque.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=_JaBhxxIVdo
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