THC and creatine

[thefoodguy]

I work at a health food store and I had a customer pose a very interesting question to me today. She wanted to know if Creatine is able to mask the results of a drug test that can detect THC levels from cannabis. She had gone to one of those hippie stores that sell drug paraphenaliea and was told to drink a $40 product whose main ingredient was creatine. The guy told her to drink it 3 hours before her test and it would mask it to produce a negative result. Is this possible? and by what process does it work?
The more important question is does the type of creatine ( esterfied, tri-malate etc.) make a difference?

thefoodguy

[E_B_Nation]

i'm not totally sure on how the whole scientific process works out, but i have heard things about creatine to pass drug tests, and i don't think it's any regular creatine. and those 40.00 drinks that they sell at smoke shops, work very well. i had to take a drug test and i had smoked some bud the day before, so i downed the drink about 2 hrs before the test, and i passed with flying colors.

[jdiritto]

that is amazing...

one thread, with two positive remarks for the two of the three joys in my life.

marijuana and weightlifting!

[nni]

being as liquid creatine is simply creatinine, the question is does creatinine mask thc.

[endlessfight]

besides weed being bad for your lungs/heart, is there really any down sides to smoking bud once in a while, while weightlifting? does it have as bad of negative effects on muscle growth as alcohol?
i've always wondered about this, and well ... love to smoke a blunt from time to time.

[nni]

besides weed being bad for your lungs/heart, is there really any down sides to smoking bud once in a while, while weightlifting? does it have as bad of negative effects on muscle growth as alcohol?
i've always wondered about this, and well ... love to smoke a blunt from time to time.

well it has almost as many (some studies say more) cancer causing properties as smoking a cigarette, and it does kill your brain cells in large quantities....

wait a minute.... wtf..... "besides weed being bad for your lungs/heart" what else does it have to be bad for?!?!?!? your heart and lungs are expendable, but my god if it effects your pinkie toe would you quit?!?!?!?!?!

damn.

anyway, yeah, it isnt good for you. but not as damaging as other drugs, like smoking an unfiltered cigarette while drinking a six pack.

[Mestupt]

well it has almost as many (some studies say more) cancer causing properties as smoking a cigarette, and it does kill your brain cells in large quantities....

wait a minute.... wtf..... "besides weed being bad for your lungs/heart" what else does it have to be bad for?!?!?!? your heart and lungs are expendable, but my god if it effects your pinkie toe would you quit?!?!?!?!?!

damn.

anyway, yeah, it isnt good for you. but not as damaging as other drugs, like smoking an unfiltered cigarette while drinking a six pack.

Just a question, how many people do you know that have gotten cancer or have died from smoking weed?

WOOP! My 1000th post! Go me!

[endlessfight]

also, how much weed do you usually smoke in a night to get high? mabye one or 2 FULL joints?

how much does the average smoker smoke in a day? at least 10-20 cigs i bet.

probability of getting messed up from weed is way less then if you're a smoker. It'll just give you droopy lookin eyes and make you stupid. Plus, if you're trying to bulk, it's a great way to mow down the food haha.

[nni]

Just a question, how many people do you know that have gotten cancer or have died from smoking weed?

i dont know any habitual smokers that would rival smoking cigarettes. but yes it has as many carcinogens as tobacco. look at it this way if it takes years of smoking a pack a day to get cancer, you would have to rival that with weed. even then, as with smoking, there is no guarantee that you will get cancer.

[nni]

also, how much weed do you usually smoke in a night to get high? mabye one or 2 FULL joints?

how much does the average smoker smoke in a day? at least 10-20 cigs i bet.

probability of getting messed up from weed is way less then if you're a smoker. It'll just give you droopy lookin eyes and make you stupid. Plus, if you're trying to bulk, it's a great way to mow down the food haha.

i agree, read my post above^^^^ but at the same time it kills your brain cells, its been a while since i read, (or took those classes) but ever try talking to someone who smoke A LOT, the term burnout is very appropriate. very slow and unable to carry on intelligent conversations.

with narcotics as with everything, moderation is key. smoke occasionaly, you should be fine.

[endlessfight]

i agree, read my post above^^^^ but at the same time it kills your brain cells, its been a while since i read, (or took those classes) but ever try talking to someone who smoke A LOT, the term burnout is very appropriate. very slow and unable to carry on intelligent conversations.

with narcotics as with everything, moderation is key. smoke occasionaly, you should be fine.

completly agree. anyone who smokes weed every day either has too much money, or is an idiot or will soon be one.
i mabye do once or twice a week max.

[Deadhead96]

Lol the lack of knowledge of weed in this thread is astounding. Especially from nni. Lol! It raises your heart rate just like cardio!

lol, and weed doesn't make you 'stupid'.

[nni]

Lol the lack of knowledge of weed in this thread is astounding. Especially from nni. Lol! It raises your heart rate just like cardio!

lol, and weed doesn't make you 'stupid'.

thanks.

actually took several classes on drugs and behavior in school and read countless studies, but your comment is 100% accurate.

if you think that weed doesn't kill brain cells, then honestly you need to read up a bit more.

its surprising that "deadhead" doesnt think weed is bad.

[Deadhead96]

thanks.

actually took several classes on drugs and behavior in school and read countless studies, but your comment is 100% accurate.

if you think that weed doesn't kill brain cells, then honestly you need to read up a bit more.

lol, no weed is not neuro toxic. but alchohol is. You can smoke as much a you want for often as you want, and after a prolonged break from it you will be back to normal. with other drugs like alchohol you can suffer permanent damage.

[nni]

lol, no weed is not neuro toxic. but alchohol is. You can smoke as much a you want for often as you want, and after a prolonged break from it you will be back to normal. with other drugs like alchohol you can suffer permanent damage.

ok, ill ignore studies and accepted science, and go with your post. thanks.

[Mestupt]

And you do know all those D.A.R.E. classes at school and programs are all a bunch of **** right? They spout tons of B.S. to make everyone afraid of drugs. They make marijuana out to be just as bad if not worse than harsher drugs. How does marijuana have as many carcinigans than tabacco? Weed is 'normally' made from just ONE plant, cigarettes have TONS of **** added to them to make them what they are... i just dont buy the whole 'weed is just as bad as cigarettes' talk

P.S. i'm not saying this because i smoke it, because i dont. It gets me paranoid and depressed and who needs that **** hah. Out to work now.

[Lok7y]

if you think that weed doesn't kill brain cells, then honestly you need to read up a bit more.

I don't know what studies you're talking about, but...

Neuroprotective antioxidants from marijuana.

Hampson AJ, Grimaldi M, Lolic M, Wink D, Rosenthal R, Axelrod J.

Laboratory of Cellular and Molecular Regulation, NIMH, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA. aidan@codon.nih.gov

Cannabidiol and other cannabinoids were examined as neuroprotectants in rat cortical neuron cultures exposed to toxic levels of the neurotransmitter, glutamate. The psychotropic cannabinoid receptor agonist delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol, (a non-psychoactive constituent of marijuana), both reduced NMDA, AMPA and kainate receptor mediated neurotoxicities. Neuroprotection was not affected by cannabinoid receptor antagonist, indicating a (cannabinoid) receptor-independent mechanism of action. Glutamate toxicity can be reduced by antioxidants. Using cyclic voltametry and a fenton reaction based system, it was demonstrated that Cannabidiol, THC and other cannabinoids are potent antioxidants. As evidence that cannabinoids can act as an antioxidants in neuronal cultures, cannabidiol was demonstrated to reduce hydroperoxide toxicity in neurons. In a head to head trial of the abilities of various antioxidants to prevent glutamate toxicity, cannabidiol was superior to both alpha-tocopherol and ascorbate in protective capacity. Recent preliminary studies in a rat model of focal cerebral ischemia suggest that cannabidiol may be at least as effective in vivo as seen in these in vitro studies.

Cannabinoids provide neuroprotection against 6-hydroxydopamine toxicity in vivo and in vitro: relevance to Parkinson's disease.

Lastres-Becker I, Molina-Holgado F, Ramos JA, Mechoulam R, Fernandez-Ruiz J.

Neurobiol Dis. 2005 Jun-Jul;19(1-2):96-107.

Cannabinoids have been reported to provide neuroprotection in acute and chronic neurodegeneration. In this study, we examined whether they are also effective against the toxicity caused by 6-hydroxydopamine, both in vivo and in vitro, which may be relevant to Parkinson's disease (PD). First, we evaluated whether the administration of cannabinoids in vivo reduces the neurodegeneration produced by a unilateral injection of 6-hydroxydopamine into the medial forebrain bundle. As expected, 2 weeks after the application of this toxin, a significant depletion of dopamine contents and a reduction of tyrosine hydroxylase activity in the lesioned striatum were noted, and were accompanied by a reduction in tyrosine hydroxylase-mRNA levels in the substantia nigra. None of these events occurred in the contralateral structures. Daily administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta9-THC) during these 2 weeks produced a significant waning in the magnitude of these reductions, whereas it failed to affect dopaminergic parameters in the contralateral structures. This effect of delta9-THC appeared to be irreversible since interruption of the daily administration of this cannabinoid after the 2-week period did not lead to the re-initiation of the 6-hydroxydopamine-induced neurodegeneration. In addition, the fact that the same neuroprotective effect was also produced by cannabidiol (CBD), another plant-derived cannabinoid with negligible affinity for cannabinoid CB1 receptors, suggests that the antioxidant properties of both compounds, which are cannabinoid receptor-independent, might be involved in these in vivo effects, although an alternative might be that the neuroprotection exerted by both compounds might be due to their anti-inflammatory potential. As a second objective, we examined whether cannabinoids also provide neuroprotection against the in vitro toxicity of 6-hydroxydopamine. We found that the non-selective cannabinoid agonist HU-210 increased cell survival in cultures of mouse cerebellar granule cells exposed to this toxin. However, this effect was significantly lesser when the cannabinoid was directly added to neuronal cultures than when these cultures were exposed to conditioned medium obtained from mixed glial cell cultures treated with HU-210, suggesting that the cannabinoid exerted its major protective effect by regulating glial influence to neurons. In summary, our results support the view of a potential neuroprotective action of cannabinoids against the in vivo and in vitro toxicity of 6-hydroxydopamine, which might be relevant for PD. Our data indicated that these neuroprotective effects might be due, among others, to the antioxidant properties of certain plant-derived cannabinoids, or exerted through the capability of cannabinoid agonists to modulate glial function, or produced by a combination of both mechanisms.

Personally, from what I've read, I would consider it easily neutral neurochemically. The only real downer is a little bit of cytotoxicity, and it's definitely better for you than alcohol.

[Lok7y]

Neuroprotective properties of cannabinoids against oxidative stress: role of the cannabinoid receptor CB1.

Marsicano G, Moosmann B, Hermann H, Lutz B, Behl C.

J Neurochem. 2002 Feb;80(3):448-56.

Neuroprotective effects have been described for many cannabinoids in several neurotoxicity models. However, the exact mechanisms have not been clearly understood yet. In the present study, antioxidant neuroprotective effects of cannabinoids and the involvement of the cannabinoid receptor 1 (CB1) were analysed in detail employing cell-free biochemical assays and cultured cells. As it was reported for oestrogens that the phenolic group is a lead structure for antioxidant neuroprotective effects, eight compounds were classified into three groups. Group A: phenolic compounds that do not bind to CB1. Group B: non-phenolic compounds that bind to CB1. Group C: phenolic compounds that bind to CB1. In the biochemical assays employed, a requirement of the phenolic lead structure for antioxidant activity was shown. The effects paralleled the protective potential of group A and C compounds against oxidative neuronal cell death using the mouse hippocampal HT22 cell line and rat primary cerebellar cell cultures. To elucidate the role of CB1 in neuroprotection, we established stably transfected HT22 cells containing CB1 and compared the protective potential of cannabinoids with that observed in the control transfected HT22 cell line. Furthermore, oxidative stress experiments were performed in cultured cerebellar granule cells, which were derived either from CB1 knock-out mice or from control wild-type littermates. The results strongly suggest that CB1 is not involved in the cellular antioxidant neuroprotective effects of cannabinoids.

I'm not arguing that cannaboid stimulation doesn't cause some degree of cognitive impairment, but saying it flat out "kills braincells" is a little unwarranted, with all due respect.

[Deadhead96]

There was also a study that showed THC effectively lowered bad cholestrol in mice. I don't have the link on me... but could get. Like that old saying: "An apple a day keeps the doctor away" is now "A Joint a day keeps the doctor away"

And nni, you mean bias studies. And it is only accepted by you, tough guy.

[nni]

ok 1. im talking neuroscince college classes, not D.A.R.E
2. by no means am i against marijuana

loky, if you use pubmed (which we all do) you can find as many pro as con thc studies.

i will try to find the study that i am referring to, as i don't want you guys to think i am talking from my ass.

but want a quick negative study that i have access to (i will do more later as i dont have the time to research now...

Tetrahydrocannabinol suppresses immune function and enhances HIV replication in the huPBL-SCID mouse.

These results suggest that exposure to THC in vivo can suppress immune function, increase HIV coreceptor expression, and act as a cofactor to significantly enhance HIV replication.

Roth MD, Tashkin DP, Whittaker KM, Choi R, Baldwin GC.

Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.

[nni]

tough guy.

??? you started the mud slinging boss. so relax a bit.

[nni]

again i'd never see the day where i had to bad mouth pot, but here is a bit more...

i may never be able to forgive any of you for making me bad mouth this wonderful supplement .....

Tetrahydrocannabinol, even in amounts equivalent to small doses of cannabis, impaired immediate memory in 8 young men.
[Reynolds, J.E.F., Prasad, A.B. (eds.) Martindale-The Extra Pharmacopoeia. 28th ed. London: The Pharmaceutical Press, 1982., p. 354]**PEER REVIEWED**


Ingestion of up to 200 mg of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in resin produced confusion, stupor, labile affect, ataxia, and mild hypothermia in a 4-yr-old girl.
[Ellenhorn, M.J. and D.G. Barceloux. Medical Toxicology - Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. New York, NY: Elsevier Science Publishing Co., Inc. 1988., p. 680]**PEER REVIEWED**


Undifferentiated manic, schizophreniform, and confusional psychoses have been reported in heavy marijuana users admitted to psychiatric hospitals. Comparison between psychotic men with high urinary cannabinoid levels and negative control groups suggest that high THC intake is associated with a rapidly resolving psychosis characterized by hypomania and occasionally schizophrenic symptoms.
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 395]**PEER REVIEWED**


Subacute pulmonary effects of heavy marijuana smoking (five 2% delta-9-THC cigarettes for 60 days) include mild decreases in FEV1, maximal midexpiratory flow rate, large-airway conductance and diffusion capacity.
[Ellenhorn, M.J. and D.G. Barceloux. Medical Toxicology - Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. New York, NY: Elsevier Science Publishing Co., Inc. 1988., p. 680]**PEER REVIEWED**


An oral dose of 20 mg of delta-9-THC or the smoking of a cigarette containing 2% delta-9-THC produces effects on mood, memory, motor coordination, cognitive ability, sensorium, time sense, and self-perception. Most commonly there is an increased sense of well-being or euphoria, accompanied by feelings of relaxation and sleepiness when subjects are alone; where users can interact, sleepiness is less pronounced and there is often spontaneous laughter. ... Short term memory is impaired, and there is a deterioration in capacity to carry out tasks requiring multiple mental steps to reach a specific goal.
[Gilman, A.G., L.S.Goodman, and A. Gilman. (eds.). Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 7th ed. New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1985., p. 559]**PEER REVIEWED**


... High doses of delta 9-THC can induce frank hallucinations, delusions, and paranoid feelings. Thinking becomes confused and disorganized; depersonalization and altered time sense are accentuated. Anxiety reaching panic proportions may replace euphoria, often as a result of the feeling that the drug-induced state will never end. With high enough doses, the clinical picture is that of a toxic psychosis with hallucinations, depersonalization, and loss of insight; this can occur acutely or only after months of use.
[Gilman, A.G., L.S.Goodman, and A. Gilman. (eds.). Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 7th ed. New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1985., p. 559]**PEER REVIEWED**


The most consistent effects on the cardiovascular system are an increase in heart rate, an increase in systolic blood pressure while supine, decreased blood pressure while standing, and /resulting in/ a marked reddening of the conjunctivae.
[Gilman, A.G., L.S.Goodman, and A. Gilman. (eds.). Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 7th ed. New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1985., p. 559]**PEER REVIEWED**


A single dose of delta-9-THC (25 mg in a smoked cigarette) significantly decreased performance scores as a function of an increase in complex response times and the emission of fewer responses.
[DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.137 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


Motor performance /was assessed/ using an aviation instrument flight simulator involved subjects (licensed pilots) instructed to "fly" through each of four prespecified (and practiced) holding patterns. Using double-blind conditions, marijuana (0.09 mg delta-9-THC per kg) or placebo cigarettes were smoked during a 10 minute interval. Thirty minutes later the subjects began the simulations. There was a significant increase in the number of both major and minor errors, and an incr average deviation from the assigned flight sequence. This decrement in performance persisted for at least two hr after smoking and returned to control levels by six hours post-drug.
[Blaine JD et al; p.445-7 in The Pharmacology of Marihuana; Braude MC, Szara S, eds (1976) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.137 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**

[nni]

The acute effects /were determined for/ various doses of delta-9-THC or hashish (compared to placebo) upon digit spans, serial sevens, star tracing, and time estimation. The simple task (eg digit span) was unaffected by cannabinoid administration while performance on the more complicated tasks was impaired.
[Dornbush RL, Kokkevi A; p.421-8 in The Pharmacology of Marihuana; Braude MC, Szara S, eds (1976) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.137 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


The effects of delta-9-THC and synhexyl on sleep patterns /were compared/ in normal subjects. Both compounds selectively increased stage 4 sleep while rapid eye movement or REM sleep was depressed. When a sleep deprivation procedure was employed, ... subjects recovered from these effects much more rapidly when treated with synhexyl than with delta-9-THC.
[Pivik RT et al; Clin Pharmacol Ther 13: 426-35 (1972) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.135 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


Human subjects /were given/ an oral dose of delta-9-THC every four hr for 10 to 20 days. Autonomic signs of withdrawal included increased sweating, salivation, and tremors of the extremities. Milder signs included irritability, sleep disturbances, and anorexia, while nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea occurred in some subjects.
[Jones R, Benowitz N; p.627-45 in The Pharmacology of Marihuana; Braude MC, Szara S, eds (1976) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.136 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


While higher doses /5-20 mg of delta-9-THC/ were effective in relieving pain /associated with advanced stages of cancer/, they were accompanied by significant side effects, including sedation and verbal impairment.
[Noyes R et al; p.833-6 in The Pharmacology of Marihuana; Braude MC and Szara S, eds (1976) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.135 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


Orally administered marijuana or THC has been reported to increase alpha activity and EEG synchronization.
[Tassinari CA et al; Electroenceph Clin Neurophys 36: 94 (1974) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.135 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


A study ... utilizing spectral techniques to more accurately quantify the EEG effects of 200 mg/kg delta-9-THC showed that the predominant alpha frequency was decreased by THC, but the magnitude of change was related to the resting state and EEG baseline of each /human/ subject.
[Koukkou M, Lehmann D; Biol Psychiat 11: 663-77 (1976) as cited in DHHS/NIDA; Research Monograph Series 52: Testing Drugs for Physical Dependence Potential and Abuse Liability p.135 (1984) DHHS Pub No. (ADM)87-1332]**PEER REVIEWED**


A prospective study of marijuana use and pregnancy suggested that infants whose mothers had positive urine assays for marijuana exhibited impaired fetal growth (lower birth weight, decrease in length) when compared with infants of nonusers.
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 394]**PEER REVIEWED**


Clinical manifestations due to marijuana smoking have included long-term impairment of memory in adolescents, a sixfold increase in the incidence of schizophrenia, cancer of the mouth, jaw, tongue, and lungs in 19- to 30-year olds, fetotoxicity, and nonlymphoblastic leukemia in children of marijuana-smoking mothers.
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 395]**PEER REVIEWED**


Hashish resin ingestion in children in amounts ranging from 0.25 to 1 g has led to a rapid onset of obtundation (30-75 min); some children have developed opisthotonic-like movements alternating with hypotonia, and others may have meningismus. About one third of children experience tachycardia (>150 beats/min). Occasional cyanosis, right bundle-branch block, and apnea with bradycardia may be observed. /Hashish/
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 395]**PEER REVIEWED**


... Smoking marijuana is associated with a nearly fivefold greater increment in the blood carboxyhemoglobin level, an approximately threefold increase in the amount of tar inhaled and retained in the respiratory tract. ... Smoking only a few marijuana cigarettes a day (without tobacco) has the same effect on the prevalence of acute and chronic respiratory toxicity and the extent of tracheobronchial epithelial histopathology as smoking more than 20 tobacco cigarettes a day (without marijuana).
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 395]**PEER REVIEWED**


The smoking of one marijuana cigarette (800-900 mg, 1-3% THC) leads to the deposition in the lower respiratory tract of about a fourfold greater quantity of insoluble smoke particulates (tar) than smoking a filtered tobacco cigarette of comparable weight.
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 395]**PEER REVIEWED**


... Hashish may elevate catecholamine levels, causing vasodilation of peripheral arteries, followed by digital clubbing. /Hashish/
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 395]**PEER REVIEWED**


Studies of aircraft pilot performance following the smoking of one cigarette containing 20 mg of THC sugggest that impairment of performance can last as long as 24 hours after smoking. The user may be unaware of the drug's influence.
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 397]**PEER REVIEWED**


... Smoking marihuana either has no influence on the size of the pupil, or causes slight constriction. It causes the conjuctival vessels to dilate, about maximum at fifteen minutes.
[Grant, W.M. Toxicology of the Eye. 3rd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publisher, 1986., p. 174]**PEER REVIEWED**


To compare the pulmonary hazards of smoking marijuana (cannabis; I) and tobacco (II), the relative burden to the lung of insoluble particulates (tar) and carbon monoxide from the smoke of similar quantities of marijuana and tobacco were studied in 15 men who had smoked both marijuana and tobacco habitually for at least 5 yr. Each subject's blood carboxyhemoglobin level was measured before and after smoking. The amount of tar inhaled and deposited in the respiratory tract from the smoke of single filter-tipped tobacco cigarettes (900 to 1200 mg) and marijuana cigarettes (741 to 985 mg) containing 0.004% or 1.24% 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (dronabinol; III) was also measured. As compared with smoking tobacco, smoking marijuana was associated with a nearly five-fold greater increment in the blood carboxyhemoglobin level, an approximately three-fold increase in the amount of tar inhaled and retention in the respiratory tract of 1/3 more inhaled tar. Significant differences were also noted in the dynamics of smoking marijuana and tobacco among them an approximately 2/3 larger puff volume, a 1/3 greater depth of inhalation and a four-fold longer breath holding time with marijuana than with tobacco. Smoking dynamics and the delivery of tar during marijuana smoking were only slightly influenced by the percentage of 9-tetrahydrocannabinol. It was concluded that smoking marijuana, regardless of 9-tetrahydrocannabinol content, results in a substantially greater respiratory burden of carbon monoxide and tar than smoking a similar quantity of tobacco.
[Wu TC et al; N Engl J Med 388: 347-351 (1988)]**PEER REVIEWED**

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...+@rn+1972-08-3

from the hazardous substances data bank.

[nni]

I'm not arguing that cannaboid stimulation doesn't cause some degree of cognitive impairment, but saying it flat out "kills braincells" is a little unwarranted, with all due respect.

i'll give on that, maybe kill is too harsh (although i swear i will find my sources) but you can easily say it does cause damage ( not necessarily permanenet or irreversible, but damage nonetheless). i don't want to go any further without going back to find more info, but like i said i'll try.

[jdiritto]

nni-
well it has almost as many (some studies say more) cancer causing properties as smoking a cigarette, and it does kill your brain cells in large quantities....


***i dont agree, you can post all the results you want, it is govt propoganda bull****. I'm a psych major, i smoke bud, alot, and i dont agree with either statement. large quanities doesn't kill brain cells, it impairs brain functioning while the drug is in your system, once you sober up/clean yourself out your brain is fine again, but you may have slight patches in your memory.. from all the pot smoking, it ****s with memory recall both short and long term even if you are clean...chronic abuse will **** with your memory thats it.


enlessfight-

completly agree. anyone who smokes weed every day either has too much money, or is an idiot or will soon be one.
i mabye do once or twice a week max.

***I smoke everyday, and im not rich. hell im trying to pay college off. and im not an idiot, in 2 more yrs ill have my masters in psychology, and than i intend to work towards a Ph.D.


mestupt-

Just a question, how many people do you know that have gotten cancer or have died from smoking weed?

*** there are 0 documented deaths from the direct result of smoking marijuana. if you can find one and get me a way to find it i will give you mad rep points.
i believe england had one up until awhile ago when they realized the person had a complication of numerous other narcotics in their system due to health probelmns. how many people die from alcohol poisioning a day?


endlessfight -
also, how much weed do you usually smoke in a night to get high? mabye one or 2 FULL joints?

how much does the average smoker smoke in a day? at least 10-20 cigs i bet.


***hes very right marijuana is much more potent than cigerattes so you smoke less to get a feeling. but it is not even comparable to cigerattes in terms of carcinogens. **** that **** they teach you in school, you would have to smoke like 10 joints a day to have it equal smoking 3 cigs. ( i smoke both heavily, u only live once )


deadhead96-
Lol the lack of knowledge of weed in this thread is astounding. Especially from nni. Lol! It raises your heart rate just like cardio!

***it also raises your metabolism, why you get the munchies.. ive also heard it boosts physical endurance, a friend of mine that plays semi pro soccer had a dr tell him that once. lol


deadhead96
lol, no weed is not neuro toxic. but alchohol is. You can smoke as much a you want for often as you want, and after a prolonged break from it you will be back to normal. with other drugs like alchohol you can suffer permanent damage.

***your kind of right, chronic abuse can cause memory patches as i refer to them, read above where i talk about it


yea, you might call me a stoner. i call myself an enlightened thinker. i want to work for govt marijuana labs,and someday i just might..who knows

I have 5 published books about marijuana and its effects on the body, read problaly almost everything imaginable about it online and than some

for all you naysayers, marijuana is a plant. nothing more than that. the government treats it like it is a catalyst for atomic bombs., dumb ****s.

anyways yea, bash my post if u want, it will give me something interesting to reply to later after i puff a fattie.

[jdiritto]

nni - have you ever even consumed THC?

[jdiritto]

A prospective study of marijuana use and pregnancy suggested that infants whose mothers had positive urine assays for marijuana exhibited impaired fetal growth (lower birth weight, decrease in length) when compared with infants of nonusers.
[Ellenhorn, M.J., S. Schonwald, G. Ordog, J. Wasserberger. Ellenhorn's Medical Toxicology: Diagnosis and Treatment of Human Poisoning. 2nd ed. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins, 1997., p. 394]**PEER REVIEWED**


does this study take into account the wealth/social class of the mothers?

ive read crack babies were are a myth, and that the true reason the babies were born ****ed up is due to malnurishment in the parent as well as abuse of other drugs (cigerattes and alcohol) during the time of pregnancy...

of course - crack babies sounds better and scares people...which inturn lowers the use of crack, so the american govt said hey lets name them crack babies, not under-deprived-and-nourished-babies (note: the majority of crack babies were born into african american households: more reason why the govt named them crack babies - racism)

[Deadhead96]

An oral dose of 20 mg of delta-9-THC or the smoking of a cigarette containing 2% delta-9-THC produces effects on mood, memory, motor coordination, cognitive ability, sensorium, time sense, and self-perception.
Lol No ****!
I love how they say "Affects mood, memory and thought" Like it's a bad thing. Pfft, it afects cognitive ability by INCREASING IT, and expanding your cognitive ability, lol stupid study!
Coordination? Ya it helps increase it!

[nni]

nni - have you ever even consumed THC?

why, you sharing?





ok, i got a break so did some research....

Myth: Marijuana is Harmless

Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are: (1) respiratory disease due to smoking and (2) accidental injuries due to impairment.

Marijuana and Smoking:
A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers.1 These findings were not surprising, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.2

Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers.3 Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers.4 A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:5

"Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health."

Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies: (1) use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities, (2) use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies6, and (3) ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.

Footnotes

1. Michael R. Polen et al. "Health Care Use by Frequent Marijuana Smokers Who Do Not Smoke Tobacco," Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 596-601 (June 1993).

2. Donald Tashkin, "Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health?" Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 635-7 (June 1993).

3. D. Tashkin et al, "Effects of Habitual Use of Marijuana and/or ******* on the Lung," in Research Findings on Smoking of Abused Substances, NIDA Research Monograph 99 (1990).

4. Paul Donald, "Advanced malignancy in the young marijuana smoker," Adv Exp Med Biol 288:33-56 (1991); FM Taylor, "Marijuana as a potential respiratory tract carcinogen," South Med Journal 81:1213-6 (1988).

5. D. Tashkin, "Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health,?" op. cit.

6. Nicholas Cozzi, "Effects of Water Filtration on Marijuana Smoke: A Literature Review," MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) newsletter, Vol. IV #2 (1993) (Reprints available from MAPS and Cal. NORML).

Myth: No One Has Ever Died From Using Marijuana

The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving.1 There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents -- some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination.2 This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.

Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity.

Footnotes

1. Herbert Moskowitz, "Marihuana and Driving," Accident Analysis and Prevention 17#4: 323-45 (1985).

2. Carl Soderstrom et al., "Marijuana and Alcohol Use Among 1023 Trauma Patients," Archives of Surgery, 123: 733-7 (1988).

Myth: Pot Kills Brain Cells

Government experts now admit that pot doesn't kill brain cells.1 This myth came from a handful of animal experiments in which structural changes (not actual cell death, as is often alleged) were observed in brain cells of animals exposed to high doses of pot. Many critics still cite the notorious monkey studies of Dr. Robert G. Heath, which purported to find brain damage in three monkeys that had been heavily dosed with cannabis.2 This work was never replicated and has since been discredited by a pair of better controlled, much larger monkey studies, one by Dr. William Slikker of the National Center for Toxicological Research3 and the other by Charles Rebert and Gordon Pryor of SRI International.4 Neither found any evidence of physical alteration in the brains of monkeys exposed to daily doses of pot for up to a year. Human studies of heavy users in Jamaica and Costa Rica found no evidence of abnormalities in brain physiology.5 Even though there is no evidence that pot causes permanent brain damage, users should be aware that persistent deficits in short-term memory have been noted in chronic, heavy marijuana smokers after 6 to 12 weeks of abstinence.6 It is worth noting that other drugs, including alcohol, are known to cause brain damage.

Footnotes

1. Dr. Christine Hartel, Acting Director of Research, National Institute of Drug Abuse, cited by the State of Hawaii Dept of Health, Alcohol and Drug Abuse Division in memo of Feb. 4, 1994.

2. For an overview, see NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES Report, op. cit., pp. 81-2. R.G. Heath et al, "Cannabis sativa: effects on brain function and ultrastructure in Rhesus monkeys," Biol. Psychiatry 15: 657-90 (1980).

3. William Slikker et al., "Chronic Marijuana Smoke Exposure in the Rhesus Monkey," Fundamental and Applied Toxicology 17: 321-32 (1991).

4. Charles Rebert & Gordon Pryor - "Chronic Inhalation of Marijuana Smoke and Brain Electrophysiology of Rhesus Monkeys," International Journal of Psychophysiology V 14, p.144, 1993.

5. NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES Report, pp. 82-7.

6. "Cannabis and Memory Loss," (editorial) British Journal of Addiction 86: 249-52 (1991)

there you go, the study i was referring to was countered, my mistake, i did not know about the second study.

like i said to loky above, kill was too harsh a statement, and i openly retract it.

[E_B_Nation]

besides weed being bad for your lungs/heart, is there really any down sides to smoking bud once in a while, while weightlifting? does it have as bad of negative effects on muscle growth as alcohol?
i've always wondered about this, and well ... love to smoke a blunt from time to time.

if your worried about your health and smoking weed, don't smoke a blunt. that is imo, the most un-healthy way to smoke bud. use a bong, or a pipe. better yet, use a vaporizer. vaporizers are hands down the most healthiest way of using cannabis.