Prolotherapy and injured elbow

[nvr8nf]

Just thought I would share since this has been the most frustrating injury I have ever had.

Long story short I developed tennis elbow/tendonitis almost 2 years ago. Well, after two rounds of a medrol dose pack, three rounds of prednisone and four cortisone shots spread out over the last 2 years it still bothered me. Although it was better using my fingers/grip still caused serious pain. I figured surgery was the next step. Well, I stumbled accross prolotherapy doing internet searches and decided to try it.

Weds I had it done. Six injections directly where it hurt. It's only been two days but so far the pain isn't completely gone but it feels MUCH better. On a scale from 1-10 the pain went from an 8 to a 1. And the doc said it would take a couple weeks to get the full benefits. I don't know if this will last but maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel! And at least it's natural healing compared to cortisone so I am not doing further damage. The doc just shook his head when I told him I had 4 cortisone injections! Hopefully I can kick this with a couple more sessions.

[WorkingOnTheDream]

Good to hear it seems to be working for you, and good luck with continued improvements!

I've heard prolo hurts like an MF! Any truth to that? I'd think they'd numb up the area prior to inserting the needle into your injured joint...

Anyone else have a prolo experience? RC partial tears fixed, that sort of thing...?

Anyone??

[nvr8nf]

Good to hear it seems to be working for you, and good luck with continued improvements!

I've heard prolo hurts like an MF! Any truth to that? I'd think they'd numb up the area prior to inserting the needle into your injured joint...

Anyone else have a prolo experience? RC partial tears fixed, that sort of thing...?

Anyone??

Actually it didn't hurt that bad. But definitely a weird sensation. There's a numbing agent mixed in the solution so only the first shot hurts. Later that evening it was a little sore but not that bad. I had Tylenol ready but didn't need them. Yesterday and today it has felt great. Not 100% but MUCH better and better than I expected. I am getting another treatment in 3 weeks and I am going to ask if he can give me a bigger "dose" since it didn't hurt that bad. After 2 years of pain I can take a couple more days!

[nvr8nf]

...and it's still feeling good! Not perfect but about 90%. Certain finger movements still hurts but now it's a dull pain that quickly goes away instead of a sharp burning pain. I have another treatment in a 11 days.

[WorkingOnTheDream]

...and it's still feeling good! Not perfect but about 90%. Certain finger movements still hurts but now it's a dull pain that quickly goes away instead of a sharp burning pain. I have another treatment in a 11 days.

Great to hear!

I had scheduled surgery for my shoulder; however, the Dr's office wasn't returning my calls nor answering my questions, so I decided to cancel surgery with him. I will look into prolo before making an appointment with another surgeon.

There's an MD who does prolo near me, so we'll see how that goes.

[AutumnalPark]

It is becoming a more widespread frm of treatment, so is nice to have some feedback on the results. Would also be curius to hear how it goes at 6 months and 12 months afterwards.

[orsum]

Please update as often as possible, I would also like to hear if anybody has been through the same treatment.

Good luck sounds like its working

orsum

[nvr8nf]

I will definitely be doing updates. The doc said it will probably take 3 or 4 sessions to be completely healed since I have had it for long and had so much cortisone.

[nvr8nf]

Well, elbow started hurting this weekend and still hurts. Still not as bad as before the prolo and more of a dull pain as opposed to the sharp, burning pain I had before the prolo.

I called and the nurse said that pain/discomfort is normal after prolo and told me to take some Tylenol. But I would think the pain would be immediately after the shots and then fade. Not feel better immediately then get worse? Next week is round 2 so I'll ask the doc.

[WorkingOnTheDream]

Yeah, that's one thing I've read, is that there's not too much aching pain immediately after injection--that comes a day or two later.

I'm not sure why, but have read about that on prolo sites.

Thanks for continuing to update!

[nvr8nf]

Yeah, that's one thing I've read, is that there's not too much aching pain immediately after injection--that comes a day or two later.

I'm not sure why, but have read about that on prolo sites.

Thanks for continuing to update!

That's what I thought too. Problem is that it felt really good for over a week then after about 10 days started hurting. If this is "normal" then I don't care because I can deal with the pain. I just want to keep moving forward and finally beat this crap!

I'll be asking the doc some detailed questions when I go back.

[WorkingOnTheDream]

It's an actual M.D. doing it? I found an M.D. in Wisconsin, but all others doing it seem to be non-M.D. types.

[dangerbird]

whats happening inside of your elbow with prolotherapy goes like this. The inflamation creates fibroblasts, or baby connective tissue cells, during the first week after a prolo shot these cells accumulate on the ligaments and tendons which were injected, and between weeks 2-4 they begin to mature. Its when they mature that youll start feeling actual relief, because as they mature they tighten up. When a ligament tightens up it relieves all of the surrounding structures of stress, which causes a reduction in pain. I would get injections every 4 weeks because you need to let the cells mature which is something they wont do if they're inflamed. after they mature give it another round.

[nvr8nf]

It's an actual M.D. doing it? I found an M.D. in Wisconsin, but all others doing it seem to be non-M.D. types.

He's actually a DO, which my girlfriend said was better for this type of treatment. Why I don't know but she's in the medical field so I took her word for it! LOL Plus, he's been doing prolo since 1995.

[nvr8nf]

whats happening inside of your elbow with prolotherapy goes like this. The inflamation creates fibroblasts, or baby connective tissue cells, during the first week after a prolo shot these cells accumulate on the ligaments and tendons which were injected, and between weeks 2-4 they begin to mature. Its when they mature that youll start feeling actual relief, because as they mature they tighten up. When a ligament tightens up it relieves all of the surrounding structures of stress, which causes a reduction in pain. I would get injections every 4 weeks because you need to let the cells mature which is something they wont do if they're inflamed. after they mature give it another round.

Many places do 2 weeks so I asked if I could get injections sooner than his recommended 3 weeks and the nurse said it is 3 weeks minimum to give your body time to heal.

It's hard to describe. Before it was a sharp, burning pain and it felt weak. Now, it is a dull, more spread out pain and it does feel stronger. So hopefully this is working.

What's weird is it is now mainly my thumb strength that is causes pain

[nvr8nf]

Elbow felt better yesterday and today. Went back to the doc today for round two of the prolotherapy. I asked him about it hurting and he said everyone was different. Some people hurt right after, some later and some not at all. I'm going to hope that this rounds provides more relief and continues to get better after every round. That first shot got in there deep today. Yaouch! Feels good right now though.

[nvr8nf]

Just an update after round two. Felt great that day and I had minor pain for two days after then pain free for the most part. A few movements still irritate it but it is much better. Round 3 is this Weds. Hopefully with each round it gets better!

[gbg]

Glad to hear it worked for you the office where I work does prolo there are different type of injectable's do you no what they injected? I see great outcomes w/prolo they use it for multiple treatments.

[gbg]

He's actually a DO, which my girlfriend said was better for this type of treatment. Why I don't know but she's in the medical field so I took her word for it! LOL Plus, he's been doing prolo since 1995.

Doesn't matter if it's a neurologist or a nurse practitioner doing the injections what matters is how much knowledge they have doing the injections themselves usually the longer they have been doing it the better It's very specific where you inject you have to hit the exact spot need very steady hands.A good friend of mine is a NP and works with prolo.

[nvr8nf]

Glad to hear it worked for you the office where I work does prolo there are different type of injectable's do you no what they injected? I see great outcomes w/prolo they use it for multiple treatments.

Well it's not over yet but it seems to be improving! If I remember correctly they use glucose.

[nvr8nf]

Doesn't matter if it's a neurologist or a nurse practitioner doing the injections what matters is how much knowledge they have doing the injections themselves usually the longer they have been doing it the better It's very specific where you inject you have to hit the exact spot need very steady hands.A good friend of mine is a NP and works with prolo.

She told me that DOs have more training with muscles, nerves etc. But after having it done it is a very simple process, especially for something like the elbow. I could see where the back would be more complicated.

[nvr8nf]

A quick update. Unfortunately I am still in pain.

It has been a rollercoaster ride over the last 10 weeks with some days being pain free and some with chronic pain.

Right now it hurts when my arm is straight, which is the exact opposite of when I started. When I started it was when my arm was bent. There is also a fair amount of swelling. I am HOPING this is just part of the process since I just got my 4th round last week.

I am waiting for a call back from the Doc to see how much of this is normal.

[gbg]

When I go back to work I'll ask the Dr.'s their that do the injections about your situation see what they say. How many injections did you have total? and are you sure they are inj. glucose? pain is better overall but still have some swelling?

[autosmash]

yeah man, nice to hear it's getting better. I had tendinitis in both wrists about a year ago, just from over training, probably not warming up my hands / wrists enough, and I had to play guitar for hours a day due to an exam. The pain...it's hard to describe, it makes you feel very unable, as you basically conduct your life with your arms / hands.

The pain does come back very slightly, but I found that using weight lifting gloves made it worse, perhaps due to the lack of flexibility in the fingers when handling heavy weights, probably because my gloves were bulky and ****!

[nvr8nf]

When I go back to work I'll ask the Dr.'s their that do the injections about your situation see what they say. How many injections did you have total? and are you sure they are inj. glucose? pain is better overall but still have some swelling?

My bad it is dextrose not glucose along with pain reliever(I assume lanocain) for short-term pain relief.

He gives me 5-6 injections each round and I just had round 4.

The pain is slightly better. Too be honest I thought I would be much better off by now.

It really hurts when I straighten my arm and it is swollen.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[nvr8nf]

Well I am in more pain now than I have ever been when I extend my arm. Picking up a coffee cup hurts! With my arm bent I only have moderate pain.

The doc called me back and said pain and swelling was normal, but my gut is telling me this is too much pain and swelling. I'm going to give it until next Friday and then start taking ibuprofin and icing it to get the swelling down. Hopefully the doc is right and I will pull out ok but right now I do not feel optimistic.

[SilverBack1983]

wow. keep us updated man. i was thinking about getting prolo 4 my pecs(tendonosis). have you heard/met any other people who have a similar experience post prolo.

[orsum]

Hi nvr8nf,

Sounds like your not having fun, I started with tennis elbow Sept 07 and stopped training straight away, I could not pick up a glass of water, I have searched for assistance from almost everywhere and my progress seems to be about what the doc first told me it would be 6 months and possibly 2 years if I try to rush things. (No operations and no cortisone)

I do RICE, anti inflams, massage, stretching and now I have added a hot and cold vibrator massage 10 -20min 3 times a day (wife gave it to me as a Christmas present) this has got to be the best present I have ever had.

I started training again about 3 weeks ago very light and I mean light I was curling about 20kg before and now I am doing about 4 - 6 kg 12 reps strange thing is I have done my best rom dead lifts every and without pain, although I must say I am taking great care with my grip and movement.

Since I started training again my tennis elbow seems to be getting better and with the addition of the vibrator I can say I am now about 90 - 95 % pain free, it seems like rest was the real curl all the other things helped with the reduction of the pain and still are, I will see what happens over the next 4 weeks and let you know.

I also seem to get the same type of pain in the lower part of my bicep every now and then does this happen to you.

Good luck

orsum

[nvr8nf]

Hi nvr8nf,

Sounds like your not having fun, I started with tennis elbow Sept 07 and stopped training straight away, I could not pick up a glass of water, I have searched for assistance from almost everywhere and my progress seems to be about what the doc first told me it would be 6 months and possibly 2 years if I try to rush things. (No operations and no cortisone)

I do RICE, anti inflams, massage, stretching and now I have added a hot and cold vibrator massage 10 -20min 3 times a day (wife gave it to me as a Christmas present) this has got to be the best present I have ever had.

I started training again about 3 weeks ago very light and I mean light I was curling about 20kg before and now I am doing about 4 - 6 kg 12 reps strange thing is I have done my best rom dead lifts every and without pain, although I must say I am taking great care with my grip and movement.

Since I started training again my tennis elbow seems to be getting better and with the addition of the vibrator I can say I am now about 90 - 95 % pain free, it seems like rest was the real curl all the other things helped with the reduction of the pain and still are, I will see what happens over the next 4 weeks and let you know.

I also seem to get the same type of pain in the lower part of my bicep every now and then does this happen to you.

Good luck

orsum

I was just thinking about using a vibrator(feels funny typing that! lol) the other day. I massage the tender area with my fingers and it does feel better so I was thinking that a vibrator may help loosen things up and get blood flowing better.

My frustration is I pay these doctors good money and I get conflicting info. One says ice, ibuprofin and cortisone and the other says heat, no ibuprofin and prolo. I'm not saying my prolo doc is bad but he doesn't make me feel "confident" is the best word I guess. When I ask a question I want a definite answer, whether it's good or bad. He just seems to agree with me and tell me what I want to hear.

Honestly I think I got a little "overdose" on the prolo and my pain is coming from too much inflamation. I'm going back to ice and ibuprofin for a few days and see if it improves.

This is the most frustrating injury I have ever had!!!

[nvr8nf]

wow. keep us updated man. i was thinking about getting prolo 4 my pecs(tendonosis). have you heard/met any other people who have a similar experience post prolo.

I don't know anyone personally that has had prolo. I just did a lot of research on the net about it.