low carb for gaining muscle?

[sieb]

is this better for gaining muscle with someone who gains fat easily?

[buffgrk]

you will still gain muscle aslong as you keep your protein intake high, but gains will be slower

[struck]

Have 35% of your calories from carbs. You should be fine! No need to go low, or high. The average works best for me. I prefer a 35c 35p 30f usually

[WannaBbig!]

Depends on how well your body tolerates carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are protein-sparing, having a large proportion of your diet made up of carbohydrates is excellent for retain/building lean muscle tissue.

However some individuals do not tolerate carbohydrates well (lethargy, water retention etc.) and benefit from a higher fat diet.

So long as you are in a calorie surplus (more calories in than out) you will gain weight. I suggest eating a high carbohydrate, moderate protein, low fat diet for now with a small calorie surplus (200-300 calories over maintenance) to see how well you tolerate the high carbohydrate intake.

[LiL USMC BBer]

you will still gain muscle aslong as you keep your protein intake high, but gains will be slower

Correct.

Its been proven that carbs are
-Not a necessary macronutrient
-Not required for muscle growth
-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.


I would still consume some carbs from fruits/veggies. Doing this will allow the amino acids (protein) to do there thing!

If your a super-endomorph then carb cycling/low carbbin it will probably be your best bet to make the most lean gains as possible.

Make sure to make up for the calories by manipulating the macro's a bit (increase fat/protein!)

[Ryan314]

If you gain fat easily from carbs, I would try carb cycling. It may work for you.

[muruku]

check out the keto board!

[johnnyhabitat]

Correct.

Its been proven that carbs are
-Not a necessary macronutrient
-Not required for muscle growth
-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.


I would still consume some carbs from fruits/veggies. Doing this will allow the amino acids (protein) to do there thing!

If your a super-endomorph then carb cycling/low carbbin it will probably be your best bet to make the most lean gains as possible.

Make sure to make up for the calories by manipulating the macro's a bit (increase fat/protein!)

Wtf?

Not nessesary for muscle growth? Maybe it isn't, but to gain muscle fast..it certainly is.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

[rock_ten]

hmm.
Well, I've never seen or heard of anyone who has done well in strength/BBing on a constantly-low-carb diet. I'd be very interested and pleased to see such examples of it being useful, though.

Carb-cycling is pretty well established and I think is definately better than eating a steady stream of carbs all the time. Few people can get away with that, it seems. The way that works best for me is generally "no" carbs except p/w. Depending on how active I am outside of workouts I will eat more or less carbs outside of a p/w time - all from veg and some fruit.

Carbs at breakfast is a **** idea, I reckon. Eating them in the evening seems to be much better for me. I also believe it is beneficial to avoid high-fat/high-carb combos (or rather, periods of eating - could behalf a day or something), despite the concept being hated on quite a bit.

I used to think that p/w was by far the best time to do little carb-ups but now I'm not so sure. I ofton feel an urge for fatty, salty meaty tastes and so I go with that - butter, eggs, pork chops...
I used to crave carbs all the time but these days not very much.

I'll write more later, gtg.

[Jippo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReSpAwN DeMoN
Correct.

Its been proven that carbs are
-Not a necessary macronutrient
-Not required for muscle growth
-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.


I would still consume some carbs from fruits/veggies. Doing this will allow the amino acids (protein) to do there thing!

If your a super-endomorph then carb cycling/low carbbin it will probably be your best bet to make the most lean gains as possible.

Make sure to make up for the calories by manipulating the macro's a bit (increase fat/protein!)


Wtf?

Not nessesary for muscle growth? Maybe it isn't, but to gain muscle fast..it certainly is.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Personally i think you are absolutely wrong sure a zero carb diet over a long period of time probably isn't healthy but i have seen my best results over the past two years following a diet of 15% carbs which come only from green veg and quinoa 60% fat being 40% saturates 30% polys and 30% mono, and 25% protein.

I chose this kind of lifestyle because i am very sensitive to carbs just the thought of bread or pasta makes me feel queasy. I used to suffer from yeast infections, acne, sensitive irritated skin, an over abundance of mucous, constant headaches and feelings of nausea the list goes on.

By significantly lowering my carb intake i have never looked or felt so good since i was a kid, i'm not here to preach because people make their own choices but i strongly believe that high levels of carbs are the sole dietary cause of the majority of diseases that have popped up over the last 50-100 years in the west.
Like the guy said carbohydrates are not a necessary macronutrient to human life, our bodies and brains evolved on a diet of high fat and protein.

Just my .02 cents

[muruku]

http://www.powerathletesmag.com/arch...rviewellis.htm

[DJohnson]

Correct.

Its been proven that carbs are
-Not a necessary macronutrient
-Not required for muscle growth
-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.

What?

If you're gonna drop an atom bomb statement like that you gotta at least back it up!

[young_squatter]

Correct.

Its been proven that carbs are
-Not a necessary macronutrient
-Not required for muscle growth
-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.


I would still consume some carbs from fruits/veggies. Doing this will allow the amino acids (protein) to do there thing!

If your a super-endomorph then carb cycling/low carbbin it will probably be your best bet to make the most lean gains as possible.

Make sure to make up for the calories by manipulating the macro's a bit (increase fat/protein!)

-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.

UMM Less time I checked protein combined with carbs PWO has a greater impact on protein synthesis then protein alone. Show me a study proving this not to be true.


To orgininl poster just time your carbs or cycle your carbs to keep fat gains down.

[rob?]

Have 35% of your calories from carbs. You should be fine! No need to go low, or high. The average works best for me. I prefer a 35c 35p 30f usually

exactly! that's what my ratios usually are even though i dont really try to get them like that.. just happens.

[Ellimist]

Carbs at breakfast is a **** idea, I reckon.

Why is that? I'm curious, because I'm on a low carb diet (going into week 5 starting Monday) and I've began and ended my day with a bowl of oatmeal.

[BlueFenix13S]

Why is that? I'm curious, because I'm on a low carb diet (going into week 5 starting Monday) and I've began and ended my day with a bowl of oatmeal.

I was just going to ask the same thing. The 2 times I take big carb hits are breakfast and PWO.

[rock_ten]

^ I'm going by personal experience, mainly. Although I know that Berardi atleast, and certainly others in forum conversations, suggest that "direct carbs" (like, not trace carbs from veg ****) be eaten only p/w.

http://www.t-nation.com/tmagnum/read...ydra?id=824347

Check that ^

I find carbs in the morning to be a great way to get fat quickly - others presumably don't, or I hope they'd try not having them at breakfast. It seems to put the brakes on fat burning for the whole day, while I'm active and could be burning fat. Whereas in the evening perhaps because all I'm going to do is sleep, which sees a high proportion of fats being used anyway because its so low-intensity, the carbs don't **** up fat burning so much?

Whatever - but I think anyone who finds carbs quite fattening should try just eating them p/w. Its not like you need carbs as "fuel" at breakfast or anything.

[rock_ten]

Another issue that will come up eventually relates to low-carb diets being "natural" and in line with our evolutionary diets etc. Now, I'm a big fan of the idea of paleo eating and all that, and pretty much a hippy health-***, but we have to remember that gaining strength and muscle is not really a "natural" thing to be doing, and won't neccessarily require a "natural" diet to optimise it.

I can see it being quite likely that carbs in the diet are at least very useful in gaining muscle. I also believe carby diets to be a big problem in terms of other modern diseases and ****. Hopefully it is possible for a smart trainee to balance it right - realising that (if true) carbs are going to help them acheive their goals a whole lot faster than experimenting with very-unpopular fringe practices of no-carb eating, while still being very aware of the potential health gayness associated with a high-carb diet.

[tinyman5000]

Correct.

Its been proven that carbs are
-Not a necessary macronutrient
-Not required for muscle growth
-Has no effect on protein synthesys PWO.


I would still consume some carbs from fruits/veggies. Doing this will allow the amino acids (protein) to do there thing!

If your a super-endomorph then carb cycling/low carbbin it will probably be your best bet to make the most lean gains as possible.

Make sure to make up for the calories by manipulating the macro's a bit (increase fat/protein!)

How is muscle glycogen maintained if you don't eat complex carbs from apples and stuff, i agree no one needs starches but i dont see how you can not be incredibly flat on this

[gfundaro]

If you gain fat easily from carbs, I would try carb cycling. It may work for you.

Hai, how's yours going? I'm having my second hi day. My lifts have been fabulous!

What?

If you're gonna drop an atom bomb statement like that you gotta at least back it up!

Some amino acids elicit an insulogenic response to the same extent as white rice (I'd have to search for the article, but it was posted here a few weeks back, and the protein they used there was a type of fish). Plus the presence of amino acids may actually stimulate protein synthesis even without the presence of insulin. Whey is really insulogenic, and that's what most people take post WO anyway. I haven't bothered with dex postWO this week and I haven't noticed a difference at all. I can track down some articles if you want, I just saw one yesterday when I was doing some research for a class.

[RU4A69]

is this better for gaining muscle with someone who gains fat easily?

Yes. Muscle is made of protein, not carbs.

[RU4A69]

How is muscle glycogen maintained if you don't eat complex carbs from apples and stuff, i agree no one needs starches but i dont see how you can not be incredibly flat on this

The human body is not dependant on carbs for anything, not even glycogen replenishment.

[The Solution]

people do keto diets for a reason.. but IMO carbs are essential around ur workouts and really give u good fuel to keep you going and helps in protein synthesis PWO

if u want to minimize carbs keep ur complex carbs around ur workouts Pre/Post and have the rest of ur carbs from fibrous veggies to minimize carbs.. make sure u utilize the rest of ur caloreis from fats and protein

[RU4A69]

we have to remember that 9b]gaining strength and muscle is not really a "natural" thing to be doing[/b], and won't neccessarily require a "natural" diet to optimise it.

I don't know how the hell people can say this. The human body, even if you have **** genetics, can increase strength by 200-300% (or more, in many cases) with a halfway decent training program. Gaining 20-50lbs of muscle is a VERY common phenomenon when resistance training is added to the male human's lifestyle. The human body is a load-bearing machine. We are structurally designed to be strong, although we are NOT structurally designed to be FAST, especially for long periods of time. Please stop this "being strong and muscular is not natural" propaganda.

[Ryan314]

Hai, how's yours going? I'm having my second hi day. My lifts have been fabulous!

Well, to be honest, I've lost alot of energy. I am feeling more sore than usual after my workouts and I am very tired. I don't know if this has to do with the cycle or that I have recently changed some supplements.

It's still early, I'll keep you posted

[rock_ten]

I don't know how the hell people can say this. The human body, even if you have **** genetics, can increase strength by 200-300% (or more, in many cases) with a halfway decent training program. Gaining 20-50lbs of muscle is a VERY common phenomenon (1) when resistance training is added to the male human's lifestyle. The human body is a load-bearing machine. (2) We are structurally designed to be strong (3), although we are NOT structurally designed to be FAST, especially for long periods of time (4). Please stop this "being strong and muscular is not natural" propaganda.(5)

1) Yea it happens a lot. On a very-low-carb "natural" diet? I've never seen it happen. I'd love it to be possible, though.

2) Pretty meaningless

3,4) Fairly debatable. As far as I can see we're designed to be smart and that's about it. We suck ass at anything physical compared to other animals, including other primates.

5) Why on Earth would you call it propaganda?

----

We'll have to disagree on the issue of typical BB.com goals being "natural" human things to acheive or not. Its only a matter of terminology, anyway.

RU4A69 - you're clearly a strong low-carb proponent. Do you know any "success stories" from people who've eaten constantly-low-carb diets and gained good strength and muscle? We can reason about it all we like, and imo everything points towards it being a great idea - but theres a big problem in that afaik it just doesn't work.... PLEASE proove me wrong.

[rock_ten]

Yes. Muscle is made of protein, not carbs.

Well muscle is more water than protein, so we just need to drink, right?

^ Doesn't make sense, dude. Muscle may be made largely of protein but that doesn't at all suggest that another macronutrient (carbs) isn't useful or even essential in its growth.

[baarat]

Well muscle is more water than protein, so we just need to drink, right?

^ Doesn't make sense, dude. Muscle may be made largely of protein but that doesn't at all suggest that another macronutrient (carbs) isn't useful or even essential in its growth.

Water is water, not muscle.

[rock_ten]

Water is water, not muscle.

That doesn't take anything away from my point at all. Water is water, not muscle. Protein is protein, and not muscle. Its as stupid for me to say water is all you need to build muscle as it is for RU4A69 to suggest protein is all you need. Get it?

[muruku]

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/9
very good read ^^