Hst, Hit, 5x5, Gvt???

[jonyork]

Hey guys

been 3 years now doing general workouts, with the last year focusing on some strengh gaining. must say ive gained quite a significant amount of strength but no muscle. id like to step on a new program, toss things up a bit and get on the bodybuilding bandwagon.

whats the first thing i do? i look up workout programs and supps. i mess around with sups some things happen which give me hope, but nothing fantastic. so i nedd a new program. but which one is going to give me the most mass?

[BOLT.]

HST is good if you're already strong.

[jonyork]

thanks

on a similar note however. whats the main difference between them? i mean i read the guides on them on the site, but it sorta seems all so similar to me. what is the main difference between them?

[BOLT.]

thanks

on a similar note however. whats the main difference between them? i mean i read the guides on them on the site, but it sorta seems all so similar to me. what is the main difference between them?

They all seem the same because they all use the same tone ("this is clearly the best program ever"). HST and 5x5 work great. GVT works for some. HIT works for some. I wouldnt limit myself to pre-mad programs though.

[jonyork]

i was more thinking of trying one for 2 weeks, see how it works, modify a tad to better fit my constraints (time and whatnot) and go from there. just wanted to know which plan was the best base for my goals which are intense mass.

[BOLT.]

i was more thinking of trying one for 2 weeks, see how it works, modify a tad to better fit my constraints (time and whatnot) and go from there. just wanted to know which plan was the best base for my goals which are intense mass.

If you wanna try one, go for it. You can make adjustments as you feel you need it. If I was going to pick among those and had never done any of them, I would go with a 5x5 program.

[jonyork]

why the 5x5?

[BOLT.]

why the 5x5?

Well I really havent heard of too many people getting great success on the other ones so much as the 5x5. There's a lot of 5x5 templates and they are all a great inbetween between strength and size which ultimately mean more mass in the short and long term. It depends which one you do and what stage of training you are at.

[jonyork]

any 5x5 template you'd recommend more for mass/size building?

[BOLT.]

any 5x5 template you'd recommend more for mass/size building?

This is a good one

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

[NaturalHIT]

I won't claim that HIT is any better than next routine, nor is it worse.

If you can make it work for you, you can make good gains from as little as 2 workouts a week about an hour each.

If this is what you choose I will take you through the beginning phase.

[jonyork]

how does HIT differ from 5x5?

[22stone natty]

less sets and no pussy stuff. hard, brutal one set to failure.

i start on monday, cannot wait. naturalHIT will help u out, id try HIT if i were u.
'
my only slight concern is that it can give u a blocky,wide phyqiue

[jonyork]

and HST?

[22stone natty]

dunno much about HST except the guy who invented it looks like ****.

try my hit and then naturalHIT can help u out

[jonyork]

you know, i think i will try HIT.

[NaturalHIT]

how does HIT differ from 5x5?

I am not an expert on 5x5, but HIT will allow you to grow close to rate that your genetic potential would allow. So could 5x5 I suppose.

The basic theory behind HIT is that performing a set to failure will stimulate a lot more growth than stopping short of failure. But such sets also create more stress on the entire body, so you have to do a lot LESS of them.
The result is a much shorter workout, allowing you to combine several muscle groups into one hour session.

[jonyork]

to be honest, the lenght of the 5x5 workout turned me off. not enought time really. so one set to failure is right up my alley. what else?

[NaturalHIT]

you know, i think i will try HIT.

A few things you have to do before you switch over to HIT.

1. You need to be TOTALLY fresh before starting HIT, meaning at least a week off training entirely.
2. HIT is best performed in a gym, not at home.
3. You need to know how to perform most lifts with good and safe form.

Give me your strength stats if you are up to it.

[jonyork]

strengh stats are

b-press -> 220 lbs 3 reps of 8
bicep curls -> 40 lbs 3 reps of 8
zottman curls -> 35 lbs 3 reps of 8
hammer curls -> 65 lbs 3x8
lat raise -> 30 lbs 3x8
millitairy press -> 160 lbs 3x8
leg press -> 410 lbs 3x8
leg extensions -> 200 lbs 3x8
tri pulldowns -> 110 3x8
head crushers -> 35 lbs 3x8
chinups (with 25 lbs) 3x8
dips (with 50 lbs) 3x8

[NaturalHIT]

strengh stats are

b-press -> 220 lbs 3 reps of 8
bicep curls -> 40 lbs 3 reps of 8
zottman curls -> 35 lbs 3 reps of 8
hammer curls -> 65 lbs 3x8
lat raise -> 30 lbs 3x8
millitairy press -> 160 lbs 3x8
leg press -> 410 lbs 3x8
leg extensions -> 200 lbs 3x8
tri pulldowns -> 110 3x8
head crushers -> 35 lbs 3x8
chinups (with 25 lbs) 3x8
dips (with 50 lbs) 3x8

Good, you are intermediate. Also your height / weight /BF approximately

Now, I cannot see you do your lifts, but I would assume that you do then with complete ROM, meaning bench press touching the chest, no bouncing.
Same on curls - elbows are stationary, etc.
The speed has to be such that if you wanted to you could stop a rep in the middle and just hold it there.

With HIT all lifts have to performed without cheating (unless you need to cheat to complete your last rep, but as little as possible)
Bench press, squats (hack squats is preferable) require a spotter.

When was your last workout? What was it? or briefly describe your last routine.

I need to know how much time off you need. Generally a week, but could be longer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what I would suggest:

A 3 way split done 2x a week, so it takes a week and a half to complete.

We CAN do 3x a week, and you will gain, but it was my experience that a plateau will come sooner or later. When it comes you need to take a week OFF and reset.
It's your choice.

We start with one set to failure 1st workout. 2 sets to failure 2nd.
For 3rd ??? maybe 1, maybe 2, maybe 3. Depends on response.

---------------------------------------------------
Workout A:

Bench Press: 2 warm-ups + main set
seated or standing DB (or BB) press 2 warm-ups + main set
no or little rest
one arm Lateral raises Main set
Rear delts (machine if you have it) 1 warm-up + main set
Tri's machine or head crushers 1 warm-up + main set
Abs. decline bench, continuos tension --- some warm-up + main set.


Workout B:

Lateral Pull downs neutral grip: 2warm-up + main set
Seated rows optional
Bi's -- one arm curls - Main set
Leg curls 2 warm-ups + main set
calfs 2warm-ups + main set

Workout C:

Hack squats ATG: 2-3 warm-ups + main set
Dead lift : 2 warm-ups + main set just short of failure

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All main sets are done with good form to failure, fight for that last rep.
Count all GOOD reps and assisted reps or cheat reps separately.
Record everything during workout, including the warm-ups.
Do not come to the gym without a logbook.

This is what I have in mind. Any thoughts?

We will get into weights/reps once we settle on routine / exercises.

[NaturalHIT]

Now, some people think that HIT is too easy, but each main set is a competition, with yourself.
How easy is it to find your Max? On bench press or squat? not that easy. And it's just ONE rep.

Same with HIT sets. They are exciting, but demanding. You want to know how is this program working, and the way to do it is to find how many reps you can do with this weight. If you add a rep while maintaining proper form it is affirmation of success. Once you reach 12 reps you increase the weight.

Generally I would always suggest to start with at least 9 reps, so choose a weight that you can do 9 proper reps, if you miss, no big deal.

Once again EACH proper rep has to be done with complete CONTROL of the weight, at such speed that there is CONTINUOS TENSION in the muscle all the time.
Steady, non-explosive positive and very controlled negative.

On bench press, squats , etc., never lock your elbows or knees. Always keep tension in the muscle.
Same goes for Lat Pull Down. or seated rows / bendover rows You never allow your arm completely extend at the elbow, even if you allow your shoulders to move up (or forward).

For ABS use steep decline, position your pelvis in such a way that your abs get a stretch on the way down, but you cannot touch the bench. Do not move the pelvis. Contract your abs and bring torso up. Make sure decline is steep enough not to loose tension at the top.

I can go on and on, but the main goal is to have CONTINUOS tension during every exercise.


.

[VikingMan]

dunno much about HST except the guy who invented it looks like ****.

Better than being dead, like Mentzer. But then, that wasn't the HIT, it was the meth, right?

try my hit and then naturalHIT can help u out

"I joined two days after NaturalHIT, which was a week ago. Ask NHIT for help, he's done so much for me! "

Pitty he got banned. Added so much value to the forum.

[NaturalHIT]

About the warm-ups.
They are very important. For two reasons.
1. They get the muscles, joints and tendons ready to handle the main weight.
2. They get you mentally ready to perform to failure.

Usually two warm-up sets works best.
First is light with more reps (12) with about 45-50% of 1RM. It warms up the muscle.
Second is heavier with about 60-65% of 1RM for 6-9 reps. It's purpose is to get you mentally ready for main set, yet you have to remain fresh.

Allow yourself 2 minutes between warm-ups, as it takes longer for the joints/tendons to warm-up.
Allow 2 min before main set as well.

If gym has strong AC wear something that covers joints used.
You may take it off for main set.

Get mentally ready. No social conversations. If you need a spot, find the biggest guy. Instruct him not to help you until you get stuck. Tell him to help you just enough to complete the rep.

.

[jonyork]

height 5'10"
body weight 185 lbs

id rather do the 3 workouts a week.

if i understand it righly

you do chest, tri and shoulder on one day, back, biceps and abs another, third day is legs/full body?

[NaturalHIT]

height 5'10"
body weight 185 lbs

id rather do the 3 workouts a week.

if i understand it righly

you do chest, tri and shoulder on one day, back, biceps and abs another, third day is legs/full body?

I do chest, tri's and shoulders + abs on one day;
back, biceps, leg curls, calfs on another,
third is just squats and deadlift, not a full body workout.

The reason I put squats and deadlift together is because they are related.
Squats works legs more and lower back less. Deadlift works lower back but you use legs somewhat.
For me personally all I can do after squats and deadlift is ... nothing, that is why I put leg curls and calfs after back / bi's.

HIT does not mean a particular routine, it is a training approach. We need to choose one or two exercises per muscle group and set up a routine. The routine I posted is a suggestion, how would you want to change it?

And please read the stuff I wrote.

[jonyork]

We start with one set to failure 1st workout. 2 sets to failure 2nd.
For 3rd ??? maybe 1, maybe 2, maybe 3. Depends on response.

so the first time i do workout A i do one rep to failure, adn the second time i do workout A i do 2 sets to failure?

[TexAss]

Make sure and start a journal so we can all follow along and watch your diminishing returns...

[BOLT.]

you know, i think i will try HIT.

Nah dont. NaturalHIT and 22 whatever are both clueless.

[NaturalHIT]

so the first time i do workout A i do one rep to failure, adn the second time i do workout A i do 2 sets to failure?

Yes.

The second set to failure is a control set.
Do first set to failure.
Rest 2-3 min.
Do another set with same weight for as many reps as you can.
Compare the number of reps in first and second set.
The bigger the difference, the more intensity you were able to generate on first set.

I have done this test recently.
On first set for bench press I did 11 reps with good form, but 11th was tough.
Rest 2-3 min.
2nd set I was able to get 4 reps on my own and 5th was with spotter.
11 reps then 4 reps -- that's more than twice difference.
That means I had plenty of intensity and stimulation on first set alone.
If you can achieve something close to that you won't need the second set in the future.

On the other hand if someone is able to do 11 reps, then 9 reps, then 7 reps he is not generating enough intensity and will need to use 3 sets UNTIL his "intensity" skill becomes better.