Novedex XT Log for Strength/Energy/Gyno

[PHbalanced]

A few weeks ago, I had my first experience with Pro Hormones (PH). I tried a DHEA/Tribulus stack (Schiff DHEA/TwinLab Tribulus Fuel). The idea came from an old copy of the Sports Supplement Review by Bill Phillips (3rd Edition). After about four weeks of anywhere from 12.5mg to 50mg/day of DHEA and about 1300mgs of Trib (or whatever two pills is), my puberty gyno got really aggravated and I'm fatter than ever despite an increase in cardio and weight training. There was a slight increase in strength/sex drive at first, now both seem very low.

I started looking around specifically for something to combat gyno and the best reviews I found were for Rebound XT. Well, a few HOURS after discovering and Googling the heck out of the product, it got recalled! The closest thing I could find to it is Novedex XT (NXT).

Today I was reading about NXT on a supplier's website and it said NXT shuts down testicular function. I e-mailed asking for clarification and they told me they are sending me a free bottle for bringing the typo to their attention (they're supposed to also send some superpump250 or something)

Anyway, I plan to take them at night with flax oil and spread the 60 caps across 4 weeks like this:
1)4/4/3/3/3/3/3
2)2/2/2/2/2/2/2
3)2/2/2/2/2/2/2
4)2/2/1/1/1/1/1

I hear it's important to get big doses up front and taper down to get the best results. I'm not looking to bulk up right now, just use the extra Test to harden up, get energy, and suppress the estro to possibly bring the gyno under control.

I'll continue taking my multivit, flax oil, Aminos, and echinacea/goldenseal. I might add some yohimbine HCL later.

I'll post some pics, body stats, and history once the shipment arrives (no telling how long that will be)

-Mo

[ironLifeBG]

subscribed, i am starting an NXT pct in a couple days as well, we should chat.

lmao u scared me with that 'shuts down testicular function'

good thing it was a typo.

[ironLifeBG]

here is some info you might wanna see...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=512372


novedex XT isn't for lightweights.

[PHbalanced]

lmao u scared me with that 'shuts down testicular function'

good thing it was a typo.

Yep, good thing it was a typo. They've fixed it since then to say in big caps "will NOT shut down ..."

Thanks for the link, I read it yesterday, but there's been some more stuff posted since. I'm really interested in how it affects gyno, as there were such good things reported about Rebound XT, but the logs on NXT don't seem to have nearly as much drastic improvement. Is there an extra ingredient in Rebound? Is it a different chemical makeup? Are people using it differently (i.e. with flax, at night only, etc.)? Or are they just using it with Nolva?

I hope this stuff works. Like I said, I'm not expecting, nor necessarily wanting huge gains. I just want to be able to look good with my shirt off again, and hope this gets me on my way. A good month of solid working out with high test, low estro sounds like it could potentially give me some results to inspire me to keep working hard past the month, as hard-gainers like me sometimes need to SEE results to push on.

My workout history:

I'm 25 and started working out at about 12. I kept working out through the first two years of high school and took a bodybuilding class that taught me a lot of wonderful basics I still use, but got more interested in partying and stopped until I started working out again in college. I was in great shape, 6'1 and a solid 185 with little bodyfat (BF). I always had a little bit of gyno, even when I was cut, though I had never done 'roids or PHs (I smoked a little MJ, but I had the gyno before that). After dropping out of college I got out of shape, got fat, then started doing cardio like crazy and dropped to a lean 165. I started going for size again and started working out 2x a day and still doing cardio (which, it turns out is stupid when trying to bulk up as less is more). I got to a very nice, "ideal" for my body type 175 (though my martial arts instructor said I looked like a buff 190, guess my bones are light). It was nice that people I didn't even know would ask for workout tips, I felt pretty great.

Then I moved to a poor country to do some volunteer work. I was healthy as hell from the natural foods and walking in the sun all day, but I dropped 30 pounds of almost all muscle in six months! (Of course, at the time all I noticed was my awesome definition.) When I got home they said I looked like a concentration camp survivor.

Within a couple of years I was married with a kid, working out very little, and now I'm a chubby 190. I set up my gym in the garage a couple of months ago (my nephew had my equipment all this time, one reason I hadn't been exercising) and starting hitting it hard. A few weeks and nothing. I tried the aforementioned DHEA/Trib stack to give me a little boost, which it did at first, along with the new cardio, but then it was like my hormones bottomed out. I started getting even fatter (I was 185 BEFORE the stack), and I used to be a sex machine (my wife's friends called me "superman" because of her stories), now for the first time my equipment has lost a lot of power… Now I’m like… “normal”…. My wife, for the first time I can remember, said something about me having boobs, so naturally I freaked and started looking for something to do about it besides surgery and prescription drugs. The gyno, like I said, was always there (hard lumps behind nipples), but not as bad.

Supplement History:
I’ve had some experience with supps, I always like to do a lot of research before trying anything, so using NXT is not just a hasty decision. I've had results with Creatine in the past, but it made me retain a lot of water and I lost my gains pretty quickly when I stopped using it. I've used HMB during cutting, but didn't really notice anything, didn't lose any fat or muscle. Yohimbe gave me energy but too many hard-ons and no extra fat loss, probably should have tried YohimbINe, but didn't know the difference then. Of course I’ve tried all the protein, MRPs, and weight gainers as well. My faves are Myoplex Deluxe and Muscle Milk.

Right now I take men’s multivites, flax oil, Amino caps (even though it’s probably crap, I found some old ones that hadn’t expired), and Echinacea/goldenseal (I get colds easily, especially when I exercise). I also still take one Trib cap at night, will probably stop once I get the NXT.

Goals:
My workout philosophy is, if it costs a ridiculous amount of time, effort, and money to look like the Hulk, and I lose it all really fast, maybe my body wasn't designed for that. Being naturally tall and skinny, I'd like to have the best realistic build for my body type, which is more NBA than NFL. I’d like to get cut and gain a little muscle (especially legs and shoulders), but nothing drastic, something easy to maintain.

[trunkmonkey]

i will be following this thread closely, as novedex xt is my number one choice for pct now that rebound xt has been temporarily recalled. thank god i was only a few days into my max lmg cycle, and not a few days from the end, when the proverbial **** hit the fan for RXT.

[PHbalanced]

Nothing really interesting in training and diet, but FYI:

Training:

Weights 3x/week
M: Chest/Shoulders/Back
W: Legs/abs
F: (some) Shoulders/Arms

I haven't decided exactly how to split it up for #of sets, reps, supersets, 21s, etc. Like I said, I don't even know when I'm gonna receive the product yet. I usually don't decide until I'm about to lift, judging by how my body feels. I figure since I wanna cut, I'll go for a lot of reps, but I also want to see if I'm getting any stronger from the Nov. Any suggestions?

Cardio 2-3x/week
Shooting for at least 15 mins. running Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday mornings before breakfast (and if I have energy after lifting, I'll run a little then, too)

Diet:
Nothing big here, I don't have the cash or time to eat six meals a day anymore or take MRPs. My wife cooks pretty healthy, though uses a lot of starches. Breakfast is usually yogurt and pb sandwich, lunch is leftovers from night before. I drink alot of fruit juice and water, have a big cup of coffee every morning at work, rarely drink alcohol or soda. Don't use any recreational or prescription drugs.

[SWOLL_BIKER]

Interesting info and this may save my PCT {thank God for that}

[ironLifeBG]

my novadex Xt pct log can be found at

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=516105

[PHbalanced]

Well, my libido jumped into overdrive this weekend and I became Sir Psycho Sexy again, so I was wondering if I should even try this product, as my hormones seem to be back in balance (I've been taking one Trib cap each night). Then my mom joked that my boobs were getting almost as big as my wife's and I freaked out and decided to go ahead and use it.

[PHbalanced]

I just did a google search on "estrogen's role" to see what all it does for men and found this study: http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_..._6_97/fob1.htm (There are better articles, this is just the most condensed)
Apparently studies show that lacking estrogen can make you infertile, something to do with fluid not being produced correctly and getting backed up. I wonder if people's balls get heavier on AIs because they're actually just backed up with fluid?

Estrogen seems to play a big role in memory and brain functions too. I don't want to shoot blanks and be stupid, any feedback?

Now I'm a little worried. I wonder if taking it transdermally on my pecs might be better/less risky. (I just read about local delivery application last night, so sorry if it sounds totally retarded to people that actually know anything about it)

[ShadowOne]

The estrogen reduction isn't all that drastic on moderate doses of AIs, like found in Novedex. Now, if you reduced estrogen by 90% over the longterm, then you'd likely have problems.

[ironLifeBG]

The estrogen reduction isn't all that drastic on moderate doses of AIs, like found in Novedex. Now, if you reduced estrogen by 90% over the longterm, then you'd likely have problems.

also this stuff is usually used to help ppl recover from ph/ps or AAS cycles, when you want your estrogen levels minimized and your natural test just pumpin.

[PHbalanced]

The estrogen reduction isn't all that drastic on moderate doses of AIs, like found in Novedex. Now, if you reduced estrogen by 90% over the longterm, then you'd likely have problems.

You're right. It doesn't totally knockout estrogen, like in the mice, just reduces it. And I guess one month at a time probably wouldn't have long term effects.

[PHbalanced]

I got my bottle. I was starting to think they had BS'ed me about the free supply. I plan to start it on Sunday night (7/03). I also got some free samples of 3o Burn, anybody tried that?

[PHbalanced]

I start tomorrow night. I just realized it's going to be hard at first to gauge whether it's working or not as I still get acne, assne, and my libido is as high as ever.

btw, my local super market is selling 6 lb tubs of EAS 100% Whey for $29.99! I wish I wasn't so broke, I'd stock up.

[PHbalanced]

It turns out my bottle actually has 67 pills and not 60?!? I guess I'll plan to go:

1)4/3/3/3/3/3/3
2)3/3/3/3/3/3/3
3)2/2/2/2/2/2/2
4)2/2/2/1/1/1/1

Starting Stats July 3, 2005:
(Wow... Nothing like the tape and a BF measurement after a couple years of lethargy to make me realize what a weak, fat sack of crap I've become)
6'0
187 lbs
24% BF
15 1/2 bi
15 calf
24 1/2 thigh
41 1/4 chest
37 waist (?!?!)

Wish I'd measured a month ago when I started regularly working out again, so I might be able to notice some progress; but I don't think much has changed.

Goal by August 1, 2005:
190
15% BF
34 waist

Yes, I know it's unusual to cut BF and put on muscle at the same time, that's why I'm trying to cheat with the Novedex. Hope it works. I'll also think the 6 lb tub of whey protein I got last night might help a little, nutrition wise. It says it's about 90 servings, so three single scoops a day should last about a month.

[ironLifeBG]

i onyl got 60 mine, i feel ripped off.

[PHbalanced]

My first reaction was "Aww man... Now I gotta refigure how I'm gonna split these up..." Yep, I'm that dumb.

Took my first dose last night, 4 caps. About 3 or 4 am I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep for about an hour. My limbs felt really light and weird and I couldn't stop moving them. It was kind of like the "restless legs syndrome" I sometimes get, only it was my arms and hands too

[PHbalanced]

Day 3
No noticeable changes yet. I know I shouldn't expect results this quick, but I sort of expected to feel something by now. But I switched up my training yesterday, so even if I am stronger I might not be able to tell because I absolutely abused myself with supersets.

I switched to the "German Volume Training" method for three reasons:
1. It's supposed to pack on size quickly;
2. All the supersets and reps mean more calories burned, so it may actually be feasible to cut and grow at the same time;
3. The weights are light, so I can work out alone to fatigue without much risk.

I did 10 supersets x10 reps of incline bench/lat pulldowns, then did three supersets of side/bent lateral raises. I still feel all the acid in my muscles, like I just worked out, more than the normal day-after burn; can't wait for the dreaded two-day after burn...

After all that I was still able to carry my daughter about a mile uphill last night after the fireworks without getting tired, which is almost a miracle in this Texas heat (even at night). Maybe I am getting stronger.

[PHbalanced]

Apparently my waist measurement is way off. There's no way I can have a 37" waist. My size 34 pants and shorts are already getting really loose, I almost need a belt to keep them on; but the tape still says "37"... And my 24% bf was measured on my digital scale/fat monitor, so no telling how far off that is. Guess I need some calipers and a tailor to measure for sure.

[ellipticer]

Apparently my waist measurement is way off. There's no way I can have a 37" waist. My size 34 pants and shorts are already getting really loose, I almost need a belt to keep them on; but the tape still says "37"... And my 24% bf was measured on my digital scale/fat monitor, so no telling how far off that is. Guess I need some calipers and a tailor to measure for sure.

That is just how pants are measured. American sizes are getting further and further from actual measurements. Your tape reading sounds about right to me... When I get loose in the 34's, my abdomen measurement is about 36".

[PHbalanced]

That is just how pants are measured. American sizes are getting further and further from actual measurements.

No wonder Americans are so fat, most probably don't even know they're getting fatter.

Day 4 :

Had to workout almost two hours later than usual, and I was tired and hungry before I even started. Big mistake. Continued the GVT on legs and barely managed 9 of the 10 supersets of squats/leg curls (I tried straight-leg deadlifts for the first two hamstring sets but could not get my form right and my back started killing me, so I switched to leg curls). I could not even lift my legs to stretch after nine sets and then only had the strength to do three crappy sets of calf raises and two pathetic sets of incline crunches. I thought I had a good workout until about an hour later my legs felt pretty much normal again, so I think I wasted that session.

Was out way too late and didn't get much sleep, so I feel like real crap today.

So far the only noticeable effect of the Novedex is that I'm always hot and wake up with my chest covered in sweat. My balls hurt a little, but I just read about someone else feeling that, so it might just be psychological.

[paul e]

A few weeks ago, I had my first experience with Pro Hormones (PH). I tried a DHEA/Tribulus stack (Schiff DHEA/TwinLab Tribulus Fuel). The idea came from an old copy of the Sports Supplement Review by Bill Phillips (3rd Edition). After about four weeks of anywhere from 12.5mg to 50mg/day of DHEA and about 1300mgs of Trib (or whatever two pills is), my puberty gyno got really aggravated and I'm fatter than ever despite an increase in cardio and weight training. There was a slight increase in strength/sex drive at first, now both seem very low.

I started looking around specifically for something to combat gyno and the best reviews I found were for Rebound XT. Well, a few HOURS after discovering and Googling the heck out of the product, it got recalled! The closest thing I could find to it is Novedex XT (NXT).

Today I was reading about NXT on a supplier's website and it said NXT shuts down testicular function. I e-mailed asking for clarification and they told me they are sending me a free bottle for bringing the typo to their attention (they're supposed to also send some superpump250 or something)

Anyway, I plan to take them at night with flax oil and spread the 60 caps across 4 weeks like this:
1)4/4/3/3/3/3/3
2)2/2/2/2/2/2/2
3)2/2/2/2/2/2/2
4)2/2/1/1/1/1/1

I hear it's important to get big doses up front and taper down to get the best results. I'm not looking to bulk up right now, just use the extra Test to harden up, get energy, and suppress the estro to possibly bring the gyno under control.

I'll continue taking my multivit, flax oil, Aminos, and echinacea/goldenseal. I might add some yohimbine HCL later.

I'll post some pics, body stats, and history once the shipment arrives (no telling how long that will be)

-Mo

phbalanced, what was it that gave you the gyno? I never heard of DHEA doing that.. What dose were you taking?

[PHbalanced]

phbalanced, what was it that gave you the gyno? I never heard of DHEA doing that.. What dose were you taking?

I've had gyno since I was about 12, the DHEA seemed to make it worse, combined with the Trib. I was taking low doses, around 50 mg/day. But I could have just been getting more self conscious about it the more I worked out and just thought it was getting worse.

Day 5 update:

My leg workout from the other day just started hitting me last night. My hams are so tight and sore I could barely get out of bed this morning and had to skip my AM cardio.

Only noticeable effects of the NOV-XT so far, good or bad, is my increased body heat and I'm losing a lot of hair. I put my pomade on this morning and my hand looked like I'd been stroking a sick cat... I don't have any more libido or acne than usual yet. Neither do I feel any stronger or agressive.

Actually, flexing and pinching my chest, it feels a little tighter and my gyno might be down slightly. Probably in my head, or just a natural result of harder training/cardio.

I'm starting to think the effects are really only noticeable for people who screwed themselves up on cycles, and what they feel is their bodies getting back to normal. Or guys with low test in the first place.

[paul e]

I've had gyno since I was about 12, the DHEA seemed to make it worse, combined with the Trib. I was taking low doses, around 50 mg/day. But I could have just been getting more self conscious about it the more I worked out and just thought it was getting worse.

Day 5 update:

My leg workout from the other day just started hitting me last night. My hams are so tight and sore I could barely get out of bed this morning and had to skip my AM cardio.

Only noticeable effects of the NOV-XT so far, good or bad, is my increased body heat and I'm losing a lot of hair. I put my pomade on this morning and my hand looked like I'd been stroking a sick cat... I don't have any more libido or acne than usual yet. Neither do I feel any stronger or agressive.

Actually, flexing and pinching my chest, it feels a little tighter and my gyno might be down slightly. Probably in my head, or just a natural result of harder training/cardio.

I'm starting to think the effects are really only noticeable for people who screwed themselves up on cycles, and what they feel is their bodies getting back to normal. Or guys with low test in the first place.

Stop pinching your nipples; that will give you knotts if you didnt have them already! Ive never heard of any one getting gyn from Dhea. Dhea has been a supplement sold by nutrition outlets for a long time, in a totally non bodybuilding context. If gyn was a result of taking this, wed know about it! Typically, its been marketed to the geriatric set, and if Grandpa was sprouting tits inside of those loose skin bags they call pecs, well, you see my point. I suppose its possible the Trib contributed to it.. But, after talking to the manufacturer of blue rhino, a test booster product which has trib as one of its contents, they said gyn is very rare . I asked if an AI like Novedex or Rebound XT would be good to take for safety sake, and they said, that would be ok, but to take it during Post Cycle, not On cycle.. They said if there were going to be a danger, it would be after you ceased the product, and there could be a resulting excess in Est.

[ironLifeBG]

that why you taper them.

[PHbalanced]

Paul,

I never said DHEA gave me gyno, I said I think it might have made mine worse. There's a big difference. A pre-existing case of gyno means I'm already prone to it; therefore some things might aggravate it. I've got an uncle who's never used gear or anything, he's skinny and has huge hooters. He smokes a lot of bud, so that probably contributed to it, but did not necessarily cause it.

I started using a DHEA/trib stack because I read that it theoretically could cause "steroid-like effects", along with the sides. After a few weeks, it wasn't even my observation, my wife said I looked like I was getting boobs or something, so I figured it was the stack making it worse, since DHEA is a precursor to both estrogen AND testosterone. As something that can increase estrogen, it seems perfectly reasonable to believe it can affect breast tissue, especially if it already exists.

[paul e]

Paul,

I never said DHEA gave me gyno, I said I think it might have made mine worse. There's a big difference. A pre-existing case of gyno means I'm already prone to it; therefore some things might aggravate it. I've got an uncle who's never used gear or anything, he's skinny and has huge hooters. He smokes a lot of bud, so that probably contributed to it, but did not necessarily cause it.

I started using a DHEA/trib stack because I read that it theoretically could cause "steroid-like effects", along with the sides. After a few weeks, it wasn't even my observation, my wife said I looked like I was getting boobs or something, so I figured it was the stack making it worse, since DHEA is a precursor to both estrogen AND testosterone. As something that can increase estrogen, it seems perfectly reasonable to believe it can affect breast tissue, especially if it already exists.

Thanks for clarifying. I swear.. if I could, Id have my own lab, and do my own blood tests, as often as I wanted.. I think sometimes that is the only way to really tell whats going on in our bodies.. It seems to be such an individual thing, the way we react to hormone stuff. No doctor, unless youre lucky enough to have a BB sympathizer doctor, is going to understand why you want your blood levels so often. But without that, alot of what we do is going to be based on internal feelings, enhanced in effectiveness by how in tune we are with our own bodies. For instance, after a month of 100mg/day DHEA, I came to the conclusion that the dose was too high, even for my age in the 50s. Getting more than 4-5 hrs sleep became impossible, I became aggressive with people, and anxiety was on the increase. Those are just the symptoms DHEA is supposed to Help with; at the correct dose, its supposed to make you feel better, not worse. I also noticed better increases in my lifts and I got more muscular by a little, then I usually do without it. But its not worth it if the rest of the sides are unpleasant.. No gyn or anything; just aggression. So i took a wk off, and am restarting with half the dose, now at 50 mg.. And if thats too much, ill go to 25. I tried androcheck after that first 100mg cycle, but havent gotten the results back; im not expecting much; ive heard mixed reviews of using that testing method.

[PHbalanced]

I originally bought the DHEA because the bottle said studies showed it helped the immune system and balanced hormones or something and provided a sense of well-being. I had a bad cold at the time, it was on sale, so I bought it. It was a few days later I read about using it with Trib to put hormones into overdrive, so I tried that too, not that I needed it.

[PHbalanced]

Day 6

Worked arms and shoulders last night. Best workout in a long, long time. I was finally able to push past the mental barrier when I think I can do any more. For instance on my last exercise, lateral raises, when I thought I was dead at nine reps, I grunted my way to 20... Burned like a mutha, tho.

Bis and Tris were so pumped after 10 supersets of pushdowns/incline curls they were numb to the touch. I measured almost a full 1/2 inch more than my pump from a week ago! I'm still a wuss, but a 1/2 inch less of one!

(A good thing about working out at home is that you can try techniques that are impossible in a busy gym, like 10 supersets in a row with the same two exercises. You can also huff and puff and fart as loud as you want to.)

Nothing new to report with the NOV. If it's doing anything, it's doing it quietly. Shedding wasn't as bad this morning.