Is Shoulders after Back day bad? + New split

[double e]

With my new split I am going to do Shoulders after my Back day and I do Side Lat Raises on Shoulder day. Would this be counterproductive to do lat raises 24 hours after hitting the lats in general on back day? I do the lat raises for my medial delts mostly (but I am pretty sure they are called lat raises....)

Sorry if this is confusing, I haven't posted in a while and just starting a new split... (here it is by the way)

Monday
CHEST
flat bench x3
incline bench x2
decline bench x2
dips x2

Tuesday
BACK/LEGS
weighted pull ups x3
bb row x2
t bar x2
squats x3
calf raise x3
forearm curl x3

Wednesday
SHOULDERS
db press x3
incline lat raise x3
lat raise partials x2
rc work
shrugs x3

Thursday
ARMS
cg bench x3
skull crusher x3
standing rev. preacher x3
incline curl x3
forearm curl x3
calf raise x3

Friday
off

Saturday
light volume chest
flat db x2
incline db x2
cable flyes x3

Sunday
light volume back/legs
chin ups x2
t bar alt grip x2
shrugs x3
leg press x3
leg curl x3
calf raise x3
forearm curl x3


I feel like I need to hit chest/back/legs (with less volume) on the weekend otherwise the following week I feel like I didn't gain much after the 6 days rest. I know 6 days is a lot but think I have it spaced out pretty good...Thoughts?

Thanks

[Defiant1]

Lateral raises work your side delts not Latissimus Dorsi.

[double e]

Thanks for the reply. Sometimes I felt a little sore the next day in my lats but probably because my form wasn't as strict as it should be. I guess with this schedule one good thing is itll force me to make sure I'm using my side delts and not pulling with my back at all

Does the program look decent over all? With a good diet I should be able to get away with that much volume right?

Thnx again

[Defiant1]

Your back is probably sore from the Back workout. Sometimes certain muscles don't get sore right away.

I would listen to your instinct regarding training frequency. Your routine is good, but if you are not advanced (training steadily with good gains for more than a year) you should be doing a different split with MORE frequency.

Why don't you try a 2 on 1 off, 1 on 1 off? That will give you slightly more frequency, with good recovery time.

I would do Chest/Back on DAy 1. Then Legs. Then Shoulders and arms on day 3.

Another option is a 2 on 1 off 2 on 1 off.

You could do:

Chest/Bis
Shoulders
off
Back/Tris
Legs
off
repeat.

[double e]

I have been doing this for the past year probably:
Chest
Back
off
Shoulders
Arms
off
Legs

Decent gains but never as great as they could have been I guess. I want to focus/train harder this summer so figured I could double up on what I feel the core groups are (chest, back, legs). I say core just because I figure I am also hitting shoulders indirectly on chest day and arms indirectly on chest/back days.

Wouldnt the 2 on 1 off or 1 on 1 off be less frequency?

[waynelucky]

Hi there,

The lateral raise like all exercises uses a Synergist, A muscle that assists another muscle to accomplish a movement.

And a Stabilizer A muscle that contracts with no significant movement.

Yes you will be using your back slightly on the lowering or the lateral raise, and also a lot of other muscle that surround the back and help it perform work, like the below,

Synergist below,

Serratus magnus
Serratus magnus: One of the serratus muscles of the back and thorax. The serratus magnus originates from the lateral aspect (the side) of the first eight to nine ribs and inserts into the medial margin of the scapula ( wing bone ). The serratus anterior rotates scapula and pulls it forward and elevates the ribs.

http://exrx.net/Muscles/SerratusAnterior.html
Trapezius lower,

http://exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusLower.html

Trapezius middle,

http://exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusMiddle.html

Rotatory Cuff

http://exrx.net/Muscles/Supraspinatus.html

Shoulder (Front)

http://exrx.net/Muscles/DeltoidAnterior.html

Stabilizer below,

Upper Traps

http://exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusUpper.html
Neck (Rear)
http://exrx.net/Muscles/LevatorScapulae.html

Thank you Wayne

[double e]

Thanks wayne. Do you advise not doing lat raises after back even if its only a synergist muscle?

EDIT: Updated split (an extra rest day betw. chest/back/legs being worked)


Monday
CHEST
flat bench x3
incline bench x2
decline bench x2
dips x2

Tuesday
BACK
weighted pull ups x3
bb row x3
t bar x2
choice of curl x2
forearm curl x2
calf raise x3

Wednesday
SHOULDERS/LEGS
db press x3
incline lat raise x3
lat raise partials x2
rc work
shrugs x3
squats x3
leg extension x3

Thursday
ARMS
cg bench x3
skull crusher x3
standing rev. preacher x3
incline curl x3
forearm curl x3
calf raise x3

Friday
off

Saturday
light volume chest/back
flat db x2
incline db x2
cable flyes x3
chin ups x2
t bar alt grip x2
shrugs x3

Sunday
light volume legs
leg press x3
leg curl x3
calf raise x3
forearm curl x3


Muscles worked directly / volume

Chest twice
Back twice
Legs twice
Shoulders once
Arms once
(Forearms three times, Calves three times)

Calves and Forearms only need 48 hours to rest, correct?
Looks pretty solid to me...Thanks for the help so far

[waynelucky]

Hi there,

I would have at leat 48 hours after back, becouse of what I said, and shoulds are worked a lot on the back workout.

Thank you Wayne

[double e]

im curious because im thinking of it in a simple way...back = pull, shoulders = push

since they are stabilizers are they (the shoulders) going to achieve hypertrophy from being a synergist muscle on back day? shouldnt i be able to work them out the next day, or the same day for that matter successfully?

also, im a 20 y/o male so recovery should be decent

i really appreciate it if you could elaborate on this...thanks

[Defiant1]

I have been doing this for the past year probably:
Chest
Back
off
Shoulders
Arms
off
Legs

Decent gains but never as great as they could have been I guess. I want to focus/train harder this summer so figured I could double up on what I feel the core groups are (chest, back, legs). I say core just because I figure I am also hitting shoulders indirectly on chest day and arms indirectly on chest/back days.

Wouldnt the 2 on 1 off or 1 on 1 off be less frequency?

I am using your first MAIN workouts, not the feeder workouts. It would increase the frequency of the hard workouts.

And synergists/stabilizers etc DO NOT need 48 hours to recover because of the low drain on resources. It is not true that everytime you use any muscle AT ALL you now need 48 hours to recover. LOL.