Volume on leg day? Advice needed

Rhinoclan · 10-16-2007, 08:35 AM

I'm having a tough time on leg day getting through my planned workout, and was just wondering what kind of volume others do. I love leg day...love the sweat, the intensity, the wobbly legs after...but can't seem to get as much in as I want...perhaps I'm shooting to high.

I'm an early morning lifter. I get up at 5:00, eat a bowl of low sugar granola with skim milk, take 2000mg of glutamine, 2000mg of BCAA, and have a protein shake with skim milk for a total of about 50g of protein, and 30g of 40g of carbs. I get to the gym about 5:45 to start my workout which consists of the following:

Squats (3 sets of 12) at 75% of 3 rep max, 90 second rest between sets
SLDL (4 sets of 6) at 80%, 60 second rest between sets
Seated calf raise (7 sets of 10) at 80%, 45 second rest between sets
BB Lunges (If I have energy/strength) 4 sets of 6, 90 second rest between sets
Lying Hamstring Curls (If I have energy) 4 sets of 8, 45 second rest between sets.

Any advice is appreciated. The last 3 leg workouts I have been unable to do the lunges and the curls.

Odin1970 · 10-16-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhinoclan

I'm having a tough time on leg day getting through my planned workout, and was just wondering what kind of volume others do. I love leg day...love the sweat, the intensity, the wobbly legs after...but can't seem to get as much in as I want...perhaps I'm shooting to high.

I'm an early morning lifter. I get up at 5:00, eat a bowl of low sugar granola with skim milk, take 2000mg of glutamine, 2000mg of BCAA, and have a protein shake with skim milk for a total of about 50g of protein, and 30g of 40g of carbs. I get to the gym about 5:45 to start my workout which consists of the following:

Squats (3 sets of 12) at 75% of 3 rep max, 90 second rest between sets
SLDL (4 sets of 6) at 80%, 60 second rest between sets
Seated calf raise (7 sets of 10) at 80%, 45 second rest between sets
BB Lunges (If I have energy/strength) 4 sets of 6, 90 second rest between sets
Lying Hamstring Curls (If I have energy) 4 sets of 8, 45 second rest between sets.

Any advice is appreciated. The last 3 leg workouts I have been unable to do the lunges and the curls.

7 sets of seated calf raises jumps out at me, that seems a bit much. Why not throw in 3 sets of those after you do the BB lunges and Lying hamstring curls?

Rhinoclan · 10-16-2007, 08:55 AM

I threw those in there then to get a little rest on the upper legs, before going back to hit them again, especially the hams and glutes, but could move them further down, or to a different day altogether.

WizardGlick · 10-16-2007, 09:10 AM

Only you can really tell if you're shooting too high. Personally, my legs respond to high volume so I do just that.

My leg routine is this:

Tuesday:
Squats (15, 15, 12, 10, 8, 8)/ Calf raise (15 x 6) superset
Leg extension/ Hamstring curl superset (4 x 10)
Deadlifts (3 x 10)

Thursday:
Leg press ( 12, 10, 8, 6)/ SLDL (10 x 4) superset
Leg extension (3 x 10)/ Hamstring Curls (3 x 10) / Calf raise (3 x 15) triset

Plus an elliptical machine for 20 minutes afterwards.

Again, my body seems to thrive on this, but that's how I am. If you're finding that you're hurting too much well afterwards then you might want to tone down.

Odin1970 · 10-16-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhinoclan

I threw those in there then to get a little rest on the upper legs, before going back to hit them again, especially the hams and glutes, but could move them further down, or to a different day altogether.

My main gripe with your routine is the order of excersise. I think the calfs should be last, lower the weight on the lunges and leg curls.

And if you puke, please take a vid we love stuff like that here !

Tyrbolift · 10-16-2007, 10:50 AM

I can see and agree with the reasoning to alternate quad/ham/calf. I would add even more volume (which I do) by doing

Squat (high weight, low rep)
SLDL (high weight, low rep)
Seated Calf
Leg Press (med weight, med rep)
Lying or Seated Curl (med weight, med rep)
Standing Calf or Donkey machine
Seated Extension (light weight, high rep)
Standing Leg Curl (light weight, high rep)

Rhinoclan · 10-16-2007, 12:56 PM

tyrbolift,

Do you space your exercises for the same reason? Any scientific or anecdotal benefit to doing it either way? Hammering one area, then moving on to the next, or doing it like we do it?

Whiskeyjack · 10-16-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhinoclan

Squats (3 sets of 12) at 75% of 3 rep max, 90 second rest between sets
SLDL (4 sets of 6) at 80%, 60 second rest between sets
Seated calf raise (7 sets of 10) at 80%, 45 second rest between sets
BB Lunges (If I have energy/strength) 4 sets of 6, 90 second rest between sets
Lying Hamstring Curls (If I have energy) 4 sets of 8, 45 second rest between sets.

Any advice is appreciated. The last 3 leg workouts I have been unable to do the lunges and the curls.

I don't understand the order of your exercises - mixing-up days are fine, but why do quads, then hams, then calves, then quads again, then hams? Why not beat hell out of each? My legs grow quick, and I only yesterday restarted squatting (lumbar issues), but I'd suggest something like what I do, which is:

Squat - 3x8-10
Leg press (or hacks) - 3x8
Leg extension (or lunge) - 3x8-10
Leg curl (or SLDL) - 3x8
Calf raise A exercise - 3x15
Calf raise B exercise - 3x15

That's 18 vs. your 22 sets, and less reps. You could do calves first, then quads; or calves and hams together (alternated) after quads; or do alternate exercises (as in brackets) some days. But blast the hell out of a given area and then move on. Give yourself 90 seconds between quad sets - that's half your body working and it's tough!

Rhinoclan · 10-16-2007, 10:20 AM

Thanks for the feedback. My legs are growing, albeit slowly. My reasoning for splitting it up is to allow some recovery so I don't throw up all over the place

ChocoChick · 10-16-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhinoclan

Squats (3 sets of 12) at 75% of 3 rep max, 90 second rest between sets
SLDL (4 sets of 6) at 80%, 60 second rest between sets
Seated calf raise (7 sets of 10) at 80%, 45 second rest between sets
BB Lunges (If I have energy/strength) 4 sets of 6, 90 second rest between sets
Lying Hamstring Curls (If I have energy) 4 sets of 8, 45 second rest between sets.

Any advice is appreciated. The last 3 leg workouts I have been unable to do the lunges and the curls.

Rhino, with all due respect, this does not look like a lot of volume at all to me, especially if you are generally not doing the lunges and curls. (Possible exception is your calf work, but I would mix it up over two movements for variety.)

In addition to the nutrition tips Intenceman suggested, have you tried working out at a different time of day just to see how your body responds?

egoatdoor · 10-16-2007, 07:21 PM

I do DC Training, which is very low volume, high intensity training.

This was last Thursday's leg workout which left me totally exhausted and wiped out for 48 hours:
Calves: 3 warm up sets of seated calf raises, one working set of 21 reps to failure, then 2 sets of toe presses on the leg press, 2 sets of 25-30 reps to failure
Hams: 3 warm up sets of seated leg curls, one working set of 3 rest pauses (11 reps to failure, pause 15 seconds, then 4 reps at same weight to failure, pause again, then 5 reps) and then one triple drop set, again all to failure.
Quads: Two warm ups of leg extensions, 5 warm ups of squats, then 375x8 ass to grass to failure, 5 minute rest, then 225 x20 reps to failure
Hams: Back to seated leg curl 1 set of 22 reps to failure.

Doesn't seem like much volume, but it is an absolute killer and beats the heck out of the standard 3x8 or 4x10 routines many people use. For me, its never going back to volume training again.

Quality, not quantity.

weiss1967 · 10-16-2007, 08:18 PM

Agoatdoor, your DC training is a killer I know that. But then again, I found very recently that volume still needed to make your muscles grow. Thats my current theory. I tried very similar routine with 3 warm up sets and then one killer, I developed it myself without knowing there is DC name for it. It makes me sore next few days but does not help to grow very much.

egoatdoor · 10-16-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weiss1967

It makes me sore next few days but does not help to grow very much.

Regardless of high volume, low volume or whatever training program, if you're not growing, you are probably not eating enough and/or eating right.

DC includes a VERY important set of nutritional components. By following that and combined with the low volume training, I found I am growing MUCH faster and spending MUCH less time in the gym so I can have a life outside of just working out.

Intenceman · 10-16-2007, 08:29 PM

While I don't adhere to the Canine Excrement system, I also train intensely and. Relatively briefly.My last leg workout went like this- .----Legs-------------- - Life fit leg extension warmup 70 x20lbs, 85 x 20, then unilaterally with the entire weight stack+ 20 =320 x 5 + 2 forced rep and 2 negatives, alternating each leg----immediately followed with --- - Hammer Leg press. (Warmed up first with 4 plates a side + 125 llb carriage, 7 pl a side, 10 plates a side).. 10 plates. a side unilaterally 4 reps + 2 Negative accentuated each leg! --Rest. ------------- Squats.- half squats, in rack-(W/u with 495) 675 x 6 Parallel squats 605 lbs x 8 reps, - - ----- Seated leg curl. - Unilaterally- 155 x 4 Rest pause ea leg. Stack+220- 220x 3 Negative Act each leg . - ------calves-- ------ Seated calf raise -unilateral 4 pl x 4 Rest pause, bilateral- 6 pl. X8 +2 forced reps , 5 pl x 10. full ROM . Toe press on rotary calf 8 pl x 7 + 2 FR + 2 neg, x 6+ 2 FR + 2 neg- -- - -- . ---- suffice it to say that's 11 working sets- total- for quads, hamstrings and calves. I only do so many warmup sets at the beginning, because I have knee tendonitus that I am recovering from, that I got from using cybex leg press- squat machine. I also do one to two warmups on squats to warmUp the lower back, mine tends to be stiff at first.

fitnessmyspace · 10-17-2007, 01:13 AM

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Tyrbolift · 10-17-2007, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitnessmyspace

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egoatdoor · 10-17-2007, 04:51 AM

Thanks Titania for getting rid of the trash.

amoreno · 10-17-2007, 08:19 PM

This is a great thread!

I also had problems getting through a full leg routine. I did quads followed by hams, which is pretty typical. After squats, my legs were usually jello, my energy was sapped, and my hams exercises really suffered. A couple months ago, I decided to split my leg workout and do quads and hams on separate days.

On quads day (Monday), I do:

1x20 rep set of back squats
1x20 rep set of front squats
3x10 leg extensions
3x15 standing calf raises
1 set to failure donkey calf raises

On hams day (Thursday), I do:

3x10 good mornings or glute ham raises (whichever I'm in the mood for)
3x10 SLDLs
3x10 seated leg curls
3x15 standing calf raises
1 set to failure donkey calf raises

This has been an excellent change for me. I can push my quads workout harder because I'm not subconsciously trying to save some gas for hams, and
I can give my hams my full energy/attention. For example, on glute ham raises, I've been able to go from a 40lb assist to full body wt w/no assist.

weiss1967 · 10-18-2007, 12:16 AM

^^ there is another reason for splitting quads and hams into separate workouts. Some people believe that to maximise growth one should split routines by volume of muscles employed, that is if quads are such big muscles there will be not enough blood flow to them if you train something else along. Same goes with back, thats another example. Some sophisticated power lifter go even further and split back into two workouts, because swallen muscles on the back simply have no room to expand as there are so many of them. I think at this point one should think about hitting gym twice a day.