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  1. #1
    Registered User pounce's Avatar
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    Muscles need rest to grow

    What's the consensus on this?

    I note that some of the bbuilders work out twice a day (different muscles groups and all), but can working out daily the same muscle groups be that bad?
    Check out the basketball players - their arms are well defined, most have a taut stomach and pretty mean legs. Its different to bbuilding I know, but how so?

    Thanks
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  2. #2
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Being "defined" has nothing to do with being muscular

    Your muscles need time to recover. Basketball is far less intense than a good weightlifing session, and so will do far less damage to your muscles, and so there's no need for too much rest.
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  3. #3
    Registered User idk's Avatar
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    i think that as far as intensity concerning the muscles is concerned, bodybuilding is all about breaking down muscle in order to rebuild. basketball is a lot of factors, such as cardio, which is a cause of their lean shape and six-packs. because the growth isnt the main goal of weight training, i dont believe its as intense as a bodybuilder or powerlifter. because of that intensity, the muscles do need time to rest in order to grow. Roland Kickinger once said something along the lines of, "theres no such thing as overtraining, only not enough recovery time". plus a lot of times, its all about the pump that you get, once that pump is gone and the heart-rate goes back to normal, a lot of times its almost pointless to go back and try to train it, because the damage is already set in, and its not gonna do much to go and try to break it down a second time in the same day. plus you will most likely be fatigued and wont be as productive if you were fresh.
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  4. #4
    No cardio No cry RU4A69's Avatar
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    Smile my opinion

    Originally Posted by pounce
    What's the consensus on this?

    I note that some of the bbuilders work out twice a day (different muscles groups and all), but can working out daily the same muscle groups be that bad?
    Check out the basketball players - their arms are well defined, most have a taut stomach and pretty mean legs. Its different to bbuilding I know, but how so?

    Thanks
    A lot of the advice you're going to come across is intended for juicers, and written by juicers. If you're natural, then you don't want to make a habit of lifting twice a day.
    BBall players are cut as hell from all the aerobic exercise they do. If you want to be cut do cardio. If you want to be swole , lift and eat.

    I think the general consensus is to give the muscle groups about a week (5-7 days) to recover.
    The only reason I would hit the gym twice in one day is because I had the intention to take 2 or 3 days off IN ADDITION to my other off days.
    Last edited by RU4A69; 06-10-2005 at 03:19 AM.
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  5. #5
    Registered User idk's Avatar
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    sorry to double post, but this thought crossed my mind. i dont know if this is scientific or not, but maybe, just maybe, if you wanted to work the same group twice, maybe in the first session you should use that muscle as a secondary group, and not as the major working muscle. for example, when i took a weight training class in college just to force myself to get into the habit, i worked out at 7:30 in the morning, and i would go again that afternoon. i would do chest that morning, and then do shoulders that afternoon. that way, triceps and shoulders were only secondary muscles, and would be fresher for that afternoon for the shoulder session.
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  6. #6
    Yep, vegetarian. MrSinister's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69
    A lot of the advice you're going to come across is intended for juicers, and written by juicers. If you're natural, then you don't want to make a habit of lifting twice a day.
    BBall players are cut as hell from all the aerobic exercise they do. If you want to be cut do cardio. If you want to be swole , lift and eat.

    I think the general consensus is to give the muscle groups about a week (5-7 days) to recover.
    The only reason I would hit the gym twice in one day is because I had the intention to take 2 or 3 days off IN ADDITION to my other off days.
    imo u def dont need up to 7 days for a muscle to recover, even 5 can be overkill, depending on a few factors... ive recently switched from a once a week to a twice a week split, gonna do it for 3 months or so, so ill compare the results... but i do think in advance the twice split is going to give heaps better results
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  7. #7
    Registered User idk's Avatar
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    im not sure if training those same muscle groups twice a day will make up for a separate day of training...besides the physical strain, i think mentally, going heavy twice a day can take its toll.
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  8. #8
    No cardio No cry RU4A69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrSinister
    imo u def dont need up to 7 days for a muscle to recover, even 5 can be overkill, depending on a few factors... ive recently switched from a once a week to a twice a week split, gonna do it for 3 months or so, so ill compare the results... but i do think in advance the twice split is going to give heaps better results
    It's certainly doable-especially considering you are bulking. I personally get better results with about 5 days. Otherwise I feel I'm working twice as hard for half as much.
    Best wishes.


    To IDK-agreed,the vigor and enthusiasm just isn't there.
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  9. #9
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    IMHO, 5 days are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much rest. I hit my muscles again at least every 3 days. Sometimes every other day, and I'm currently hitting some muscles (traps, quads, calves, shoulders) almost every day as synergists, and twice a week as targets (I think I can take it now that I'm on holidays and I can sleep more and keep my diet in check).
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  10. #10
    Registered User idk's Avatar
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    well a lot of people preach training every muscle group only once a week. i like to think that its not enough for the muscle to stop being sore that its healed. it needs time to recover, which means that it stops being sore, and them time after that to grow.
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  11. #11
    Geezer in Training Danimal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by idk
    well a lot of people preach training every muscle group only once a week. i like to think that its not enough for the muscle to stop being sore that its healed. it needs time to recover, which means that it stops being sore, and them time after that to grow.
    You can still be sore and be recovered. If you can't walk, thats one thing, you probably don't want to be squatting that day. But if you are a little stiff, a workout will often make you feel better, at least it does for me.

    I think that you need to look at the muscle groups to decide on recovery time. Blanket statements like 3 days or 5 days are too general. Larger muscles which move more weight need more recovery time. Smaller muscles need less recovery time.
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  12. #12
    Potent Potable Cantide's Avatar
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    Even among non-juicers, overtraining is nearly impossible to accomplish for the average individual.

    In other words, everyone is so scared they are going to overtrain, thinking they are border line. Hardly. Busting ass and bombarding each muscle group even twice a week is not going to hold back your gains. In fact, intensity in this matter is part of the game. By doing so, you are stressing your muscles in a different angle.

    Keep in mind that I am not negating the notion of allowing muscle to recover. Through proper nutrion and CONSISTENT TRAINING a couple to a few days of rest will suffice.

    Also, I get the notion that a lot of people think overtraining is something your body does without telling you as if it has no symptoms, leading me to believe that many don't even know what overtraining is or how it feels.

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  13. #13
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cantide
    Even among non-juicers, overtraining is nearly impossible to accomplish for the average individual.

    Also, I get the notion that a lot of people think overtraining is something your body does without telling you as if it has no symptoms, leading me to believe that many don't even know what overtraining is or how it feels.

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    I experienced it and it wasn't my imagination. I think I'm pretty fit and can comfortably train with a lot of intensity, but I trained 5-6 days a week for probably 4 months last year without taking any time off and the symptoms slowly started to creep into my life. I believe I was simply training too hard for my immune system to recover so I kept getting sick (with kind of flu-like symptoms), and as we all know, the gym is not the most hygienic place you could be in considering it's a haven for all sorts of bacteria.

    First I started to notice problems sleeping. I'd be exhausted, go to bed, then my eyes would open an hour later and I couldn't sleep no matter how hard I tried for the next 16 hours, and then it'd be 2 hours, or 3 hours, and it'd happen again before finally being so tired I'd sleep for 12 hours and then the cycle would repeat itself. Then I started getting weird muscular twitches that wouldn't go away. Then I became moody and depressed. Meanwhile, I'm still training hard and telling myself it has nothing to do with my training. And I've got a girlfriend saying to me "why are you so tired?" and, why am I suddenly not interested in her sexually (when every other guy would be jumping all over her). I did not imagine these symptoms and I felt like crap. They only went away when I took a week or so off and resumed training with more rest days.

    So it's not impossible. Not for me anyway.
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  14. #14
    Potent Potable Cantide's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by _Dominik_
    I experienced it and it wasn't my imagination. I think I'm pretty fit and can comfortably train with a lot of intensity, but I trained 5-6 days a week for probably 4 months last year without taking any time off and the symptoms slowly started to creep into my life. I believe I was simply training too hard for my immune system to recover so I kept getting sick (with kind of flu-like symptoms), and as we all know, the gym is not the most hygienic place you could be in considering it's a haven for all sorts of bacteria.

    First I started to notice problems sleeping. I'd be exhausted, go to bed, then my eyes would open an hour later and I couldn't sleep no matter how hard I tried for the next 16 hours, and then it'd be 2 hours, or 3 hours, and it'd happen again before finally being so tired I'd sleep for 12 hours and then the cycle would repeat itself. Then I started getting weird muscular twitches that wouldn't go away. Then I became moody and depressed. Meanwhile, I'm still training hard and telling myself it has nothing to do with my training. And I've got a girlfriend saying to me "why are you so tired?" and, why am I suddenly not interested in her sexually (when every other guy would be jumping all over her). I did not imagine these symptoms and I felt like crap. They only went away when I took a week or so off and resumed training with more rest days.

    So it's not impossible. Not for me anyway.
    I said NEARLY impossible. Anyhow, great description of what overtraining is like. Give those who are soooo afraid something to look forward to (or rather not).

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  15. #15
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cantide
    I said NEARLY impossible. Anyhow, great description of what overtraining is like. Give those who are soooo afraid something to look forward to (or rather not).

    Informative post.
    Cantide, I didn't mean it to come across like I want to scare guys off training hard... not at all. I'm just saying I watched the quality of my life going down the toilet and I was too stubborn to blame my training. I made some adjustments and now I feel fantastic. I wouldn't be posting here talking about weight training if it wasn't giving me a buzz. The lesson I learned was when you're not feeling well it makes sense to take your training into consideration along with everything else and ask yourself the question: have I been resting enough?

    I didn't change the intensity of my workouts (if anything I can train with more intensity), I didn't change the overall volume in each session much... I just gave myself rest days and made sure I wasn't hanging around the gym any longer than an hour. Sure there are days when I should train that I don't, and days I do train when I shouldn't. I'm learning to listen to my body. But overtraining is definitely something I can say I experienced and looking back at that 6 day-a-week routine with not a single week off for 4 months or however long it was, well, I guess I was asking for it.

    Like you said, in most cases it's not an issue. I just found my own physical limit and I now know how to work within those limitations. There's no question if you train hard, eat right, and rest properly, you can get great results training 4 days a week. Of course everyone is different so my limitations might be higher or lower than the next guy who brings this up. I just know now that overtraining is a real condition whereas before I thought it was a cop out from guys who couldn't handle training hard.
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  16. #16
    Train smarter, not harder $AJ's Avatar
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    sleep important for lifting

    recovery > lifting
    <->
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    I'm a lot more concerned with under training then over. I know when I'm overtraining. I feel like ****, my blood pressure goes through the roof, and I can't sleep. But I have to hit the gym for about 1:30 a day, six days a week to get to that point. Any less then that and I'm good to go.
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    Originally Posted by _Dominik_
    First I started to notice problems sleeping. I'd be exhausted, go to bed, then my eyes would open an hour later and I couldn't sleep no matter how hard I tried for the next 16 hours, and then it'd be 2 hours, or 3 hours, and it'd happen again before finally being so tired I'd sleep for 12 hours and then the cycle would repeat itself.
    Interesting, that's happened to me a lot, although it was primarily when I wans't training for months (or years, heh) at all. How exactly does overtraining lead to that kind of sleep cycle? I always assumed it would make you ridiculously tired and sleep too much.
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  19. #19
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by O_o
    Interesting, that's happened to me a lot, although it was primarily when I wans't training for months (or years, heh) at all. How exactly does overtraining lead to that kind of sleep cycle? I always assumed it would make you ridiculously tired and sleep too much.
    It has something to do with "sympathetic nervous system" interference and it's divided into two categories, Sympathetic (Basedowoid) and Parasympathetic (Addisinoid). Some people don't have disturbed sleep but they experience other symptoms like depression, decreased sex drive, etc. They don't all occur when you're overtraining and some will affect one person more than the next, and so on.
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