I'm fat, but have trouble with 2800 calories

[Nibblesworth]

Hey all. 6'1, 247, 27.4%BF. I've got a fat sloppy belly that I'm trying to dump.

Anywho, I do the 5x5 workout on MWF. Each 5x5 day, I finish the workout with 20 mins of cardio. Tuesday and Thursday I do an hour of cardio only.

I've been told that I need 2800 calories (clean, mind you) each day to remain healthy, lose fat, and bulk up.

Yesterday, my diet was something similar to:

2 cups low fat cottage cheese
2 cup bran flakes
1 cup low-fat soy milk
2 sliced multi-grain bread
2 huge salads with tons of leafy greens, kidney beans, various vegetables, and fat free honey mustard dressing.
Half a skinless roasted chicken.

I added all my stuff up, and took in about 1780 calories. I was pretty damn full, and had no idea where I was going to find 1100 extra calories. I tried to space out my meals every two hours or so.

What am I doing wrong? Is 1700 calories unhealthy for me? Am I hurting myself? What should I add to my diet?

Thanks folks!

[HatesFat]

I think you have crazy fibre in your diet so that's what's making you feel full.

I would suggest upping your fat intake. For ex replace 1 cup cottage chees and 1 cup bran flakes with 2 whole eggs scrambled in extra virgin olive oil, or something like that.

[added] Oh and try to add some nuts for snacks as well, like a handful of mixed nuts (cashews, peanuts, etc). That'll help you up your good fat intake.

Also, try adding brown rice to your skinless chicken (i'm assuming that's dinner?).

[Nibblesworth]

Replacing some stuff with fattier foods I can definately live with. I love eggs, and I love olive oil, so shouldn't be a problem.

I suppose it is the fiber that is making me feel full. I'm wondering, if I feel full, even though I may not be taking in ideal calorie amounts, does my body go into starvation mode regardless and attack my muscle tissue/store my fat?

Thanks a bunch for the info.

Edit: In regard to the fiber, I ate around 50g of it. Too much? Is there such a thing as too much fiber?

[HatesFat]

I'm new at this myself, but from what I've learned so far, a caloric defecit of 1100 calories like you are currently at could slow your metabolism down to the point where it is conserving the fat that it does get.

I don't know about the muscle cannibalization, perhaps someone else can help.

50g of fibre is huge, not sure if there is such a thing as too much fibre.

[RonaldMcDonald]

Yeah i agree, cut out some of that fibre. Too much fibre impairs absorption of some minerals, cause problems in your colon, can cause dehydration, and the worst part, makes you feel like your ****ting out bricks when on the toilet!

Can you post your macronutrient break down? If you need to add more calories, I think adding carbs (not fibre though) will help you eat more. Carbs are digested quickly and dont make you feel full. Also add some EFA, like salmon oil. It is good to add fat, but dont add too much fat either cuz fat also helps you feel full as well.

[supplementsavvy]

Hey man, you're having trouble eating what you should because you are now eating healthy foods (like the others said). The fiber and high water content of many healthy foods makes them substantially more filling than their unhealthy alternatives. For example, what would make you more full, a 400 calorie ice cream sandwich or 400 calories of whole wheat bread with cups of raw vegetables and some cottage cheese?

To get to 250 Ibs. you definitely had to eat more than 1800 calories a day, so your body can handle it. Try to slightly decrease your fiber intake. Fiber is good, but it takes your body awhile to go from virtually no fiber in the diet to being able to deal with 25, 35 plus grams a day.

[DJohnson]

1700 calories is bad for you. It might be OK if you don't get out of the bed all day and just lie there breathing and eating, even then it's probably too little. 2800 is what you should be shooting for on days where you lift or do cardio. You can probably go for 2400 on days you don't.

You need enough calories that your body doesn't freak out and figure you're starving to death and therefore try to lose all your muscle (which burns energy) and pack on fat (which can be used for energy later and keep you alive longer).

So find a healthy way to get the 2800 calories in you! Personally I find if I'm too full for solid food, skim milk is a good way to fit some more in.

[Badfrog]

Yesterday, my diet was something similar to:

2 cups low fat cottage cheese
2 cup bran flakes
1 cup low-fat soy milk
2 sliced multi-grain bread
2 huge salads with tons of leafy greens, kidney beans, various vegetables, and fat free honey mustard dressing.
Half a skinless roasted chicken.

I added all my stuff up, and took in about 1780 calories. I was pretty damn full, and had no idea where I was going to find 1100 extra calories. I tried to space out my meals every two hours or so.

You need more protein. From what I can tell, even if you ate a 1lb (which I doubt)of chicken in that one setting you only got 160G Protein. I'd suggest getting that number up and over 200G. On a nonlifting day I'll sometimes have trouble getting cals over 2300 but on days that I lift I definately go past 2600. Drink some more milk add a scoop of whey to 2 cups of milk and find some more things to munch on.

[Nibblesworth]

Thanks a ton for all of the replies!

As of 3:55pm, I've eaten around 2100 calories, and I feel FULL. This is the best and most satisfying diet I've ever been on! I feel as full and satisfied as I do when I think I'm pigging out!

I've got whey powder, and I'm going to start to add it to my soy milk/bran cereal. In addition, I may increase my cottage cheese intake (low fat), as I love the stuff and can eat it all day long. Finally, I'm going to shoot for an entire chicken througout the day. These chickens are the roasted variety that I find at the grocery store, pre-cooked and hot. My dog loves 'em cause I peel all the skin off and toos it to her.

Again, thanks for all the help, folks. And I'll do my best to cut down on the fiber.

[Nibblesworth]

Ok - so yesterday I managed to choke down 2620 calories. I doubled the cottage cheese intake, doubled the bran flakes (I know, not ideal, but I spaced it out and I just love the stuff!), and threw in 2 bananas.

Today, I hope to reduce the bran flakes and replace it with some lean meat.

Yesterday was a no-lift day, so aside from the perhaps 30 minutes of walking around on campus, I did 45 minutes on the eliptical trainer last night.

Today I hit the gym again, with day two of the 5x5 routine. I took a picture of my fat tubby a$$ on sunday. I'll post it when I've got some results to reduce my embarrassment.

Here's the ND breakdown for yesterday:

Cal: 2620
Fat: 36.3g
Carb: 253g
Protein: 210g (I need probably 100g more)
Fiber: 34g

The fat came from sources such as skinless chicken thighs/breast, multi-grain bread, bran flakes, cottage cheese, and soy milk.

Any ideas? How does it all look? Is the 180 calories I'm not taking in hurting me?

Thanks a bunch! This forum is a real motivator and info dump!

[Nibblesworth]

So, I'm pretty much talking to myself here, but at least I'm a good listener!

Anyhow, day three, and I managed approx. 2500 calories. Still not 2800, but I'm so full that I doubt I can choke down anymore. I may try and eat some cottage cheese later. Here's my day's food intake:

2 bananas
4 cups bran flakes
2 cups soy milk
1 cup cottage cheese
2 slices multi-grain bread
12 oz. skinless chicken breast
25 oz. skirt steak (pan fried w/only salt&pepper)

Cals: 2489
Fat: 53g
Carb: 253g
Protein: 249g
Fiber: 34g

I also did the wed. 5x5 workout, which KICKED MY A$$. The oli squats combined with the dead lifts wrecked my back and legs. I'm tired. Problem is, I was too worked to do any cardio. Looks like I can't miss tomorrow's cardio.

Any thoughts?

[DJohnson]

That last day is looking better. Just have 2/3 of a glass of skim milk and a table spoon of olive oil or a tablespoon of omega fat mixture which can often be found in health food stores (I use Udo's Choice). The extra fat will help you get closer to 20% calories from healthy fats which really helps your body stop retaining fat. The extra glass of skim milk is pretty well 50/50 protein/carbs so it's convenient because you can drink it anywhere.

At least start out at 2800 so IF you plateau you'll have room to give. Don't go any lower until you weigh in 2 weeks in a row without having lost fat (check body composition in case you gained muscle). 2800 should be plenty to lose 2 pounds of fat a week and maintain/gain a little muscle.

[britishfella]

Mate,

You're fat. You want to get lean but also put on mass. Ok.

But eating 2800 calories?! Come on. I might not be Bill Phillips, but even *I* can tell you that it's too much. I've got plenty of experience at getting lean, and diet is the number one factor. Bottom line is if you want to lose weight, you have to expend more calories than you take in.

If I were you, I'd definitely cut your calories to 1500-1800, tops. Do the iron lifting, but do plenty of aerobic work too. I believe it was Tom Venuto who said it's a good idea to get in 30-45 minutes of moderately-hard cardio EVERY DAY. When I needed to lose 20lbs, that's what did the trick for me, WITHOUT muscle loss.

Keep eating clean, but get down to 1800 cals for goodness' sake. And don't overwhelm yourself with too much. Saying you want to 'lose fat' but also 'bulk up' at the same time sounds like an oxymoron to me! Focus on getting the fat off first, but be sure to do your weight workouts to maintain the muscle you do have. Don't overwhelm yourself with a bucket load of information.

Keep it simple!

[Atreyu]

don't run after your workouts, its bad for you.

[FreshMintBlue]

okay here is what you should eat for a wile:

1 Meal:
Oatmeal 100g (ca 300 cal)
1 Banana
2 whole Eggs

2 Meal
100 g Brown Rice
1 Chicken Filet (grilled with george Foreman the evening before)
1 thomato
100 g of Broccolie

3 Meal
1 Apple

4 Meal 1 hour before Training
1 Protein Shake or Bar with Water

5 Meal After weight training
1 Protein Shake with Skimmed Milk

6 Meal
1 Fat Free Cottage Cheese mixed with 1 Can of dryed of Tuna.

Drink water all day long ... drink drink drink .. at least 3 liters of plain water.

[Durf]

Mate,

You're fat. You want to get lean but also put on mass. Ok.

But eating 2800 calories?! Come on. I might not be Bill Phillips, but even *I* can tell you that it's too much. I've got plenty of experience at getting lean, and diet is the number one factor. Bottom line is if you want to lose weight, you have to expend more calories than you take in.

If I were you, I'd definitely cut your calories to 1500-1800, tops. Do the iron lifting, but do plenty of aerobic work too. I believe it was Tom Venuto who said it's a good idea to get in 30-45 minutes of moderately-hard cardio EVERY DAY. When I needed to lose 20lbs, that's what did the trick for me, WITHOUT muscle loss.

Keep eating clean, but get down to 1800 cals for goodness' sake. And don't overwhelm yourself with too much. Saying you want to 'lose fat' but also 'bulk up' at the same time sounds like an oxymoron to me! Focus on getting the fat off first, but be sure to do your weight workouts to maintain the muscle you do have. Don't overwhelm yourself with a bucket load of information.

Keep it simple!

Do not and I repeat do not listen to a word this guy says. If anything 2800 cals are too little. I went from 247 to 200 in 13 months and started at 3300 cals a day and even when I was down under 210 I was at 2850-2900.

[Nibblesworth]

Do not and I repeat do not listen to a word this guy says. If anything 2800 cals are too little. I went from 247 to 200 in 13 months and started at 3300 cals a day and even when I was down under 210 I was at 2850-2900.

Thanks - I was about to put the confused emoticon up, but this board doesn't have one. For years and years I thought low low caloric intake was the way to go, and I gues that's why I've never had less than perhaps 15% BF (I'm guessing it was around that when I ran the LA Maration). Over the past four days, using about 30mins of cardio a day, with the 5x5 workout, and eating (or trying!) to eat 2800cals a day, I feel GREAT and and definately noticing a difference.

I would have never thought I needed so many calories to lose weight, but thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense. In addition, all of the guys with proof that they've lost a ton of weight (the sticky guy, others with progressive pictures) have a dietary intake of high cals, and they all state that their initial 1700 calorie days actually hindered their progress.

My GF think I'm crazy, but the guys on this board, you included, know a hell of a lot more about this than she does, than I do, and apparently than other trainers I've had have.

Thanks for the help, guys. I'll post my BF next monday to see if I've gone from my 27.4% to anything less.

[NaturalNobility]

Mate,

You're fat. You want to get lean but also put on mass. Ok.

But eating 2800 calories?! Come on. I might not be Bill Phillips, but even *I* can tell you that it's too much. I've got plenty of experience at getting lean, and diet is the number one factor. Bottom line is if you want to lose weight, you have to expend more calories than you take in.

If I were you, I'd definitely cut your calories to 1500-1800, tops. Do the iron lifting, but do plenty of aerobic work too. I believe it was Tom Venuto who said it's a good idea to get in 30-45 minutes of moderately-hard cardio EVERY DAY. When I needed to lose 20lbs, that's what did the trick for me, WITHOUT muscle loss.

Keep eating clean, but get down to 1800 cals for goodness' sake. And don't overwhelm yourself with too much. Saying you want to 'lose fat' but also 'bulk up' at the same time sounds like an oxymoron to me! Focus on getting the fat off first, but be sure to do your weight workouts to maintain the muscle you do have. Don't overwhelm yourself with a bucket load of information.

Keep it simple!

He's right, despite any differences you can see. The fact of the matter is, at 2800 calories a day your still eating healthier foods, with your workout and crdio your going to see a difference, thats a given.

But your not going to see the same results unless you change that diet.

What I would do is drop to about 1800-2000 calories per day and pack in as much protien as you possibly can. The more muscle you build the higher your caloric burn will be while at rest. The high calorie diets usually follow this plan, but at 245lbs you need more protien and less carbs.

I currently weigh 242 and started less than 2 months ago at 267, in addition I have added about 5 pounds of muscle.

This is the diet I have followed, which was designed by powerbuilt on these boards, he lost 130 pounds on this diet and packed on an additional 50 pounds of muscle over a 3 year period. Plain and simple... IT WORKS.

And in case you still have doubts, he does personal training in his offtime.


7:00am - Whey Protien Shake 20g
One week a month add 1 Cup of Oats everyday, this will help reset your fat burning.

9:00-10:00am - 6 Egg Whites

12:00 - A High protien diet dinner, try to stay under 15 carbs, dont be worried about fat to much. A double chicken breast salad at subway is perfect as well, the atkins sweet as honey dressing is great.

5:00-6:00pm - Post Workout Whey Shake 20g protien
Skip this shake on days you dont workout and pull the rest of your meals up by an hour or so.

7:00-8:00pm - Your Dinner, Salmon or chicken breast with 2 Vegy Sides, Green Beans are good.. Esparagus or Broccolli also add 1/2 cup of fat free cottage cheese.

9:00pm - 6 More Egg Whites or Egg Beaters.. there is a multitude of ways to prepare these.. We sometimes add the 20 calorie La Choy stir fry (from a can) It bulks the meal up so you dont get hungary.

10:00-11:00pm - Right before bed you should be drinking a time released protien shake. I use Iron-Tek because its 7 hour release and tastes great.



Thats about it, this diet keeps you eating all day long, allows your stomache to shrink because of the small meal sizes and will keep you from overeating late at night.

The key to weight loss while building muscle is to control your insulin levels by keeping your blood sugar stabilized. Insulin spikes are what kill metabolism.

Now, I disagree with some things he said.

35-40 minutes of cardio is too much, there must be a balance between caloric burn and intake so you dont go into starvation mode. Stay under 25 minutes a day and dont do it on an empty stomache. I usually do cardio right after my lifting and drink my 5:30 Post workout shake in between.

Your goals are different from other people on here so you need to customize something specifically for you. High protien to build muscle and get your at rest calorie burn way up, keep yourself full all day and lose weight by eating clean.

Take a multivitumin and Flax Seed Oil. If you ever get extra hungary, during the first half of the day, try a bannana and in the later half try a half cup of fat free cottage cheese.

Good Luck.

[DJohnson]

Now if britishfella had read Tom Venuto's book "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" he would know that the book would recommend that Nibblesworth eat 2800 calories as well.

Keep in mind you only want a 1000 calorie deficit per day in order to lose 2 pounds per week while preserving muscle mass. At 220lbs and 20% body fat my maintenence is around 3100 calories. Doing cardio burns 400 calories, I figure my weight lifting burns around 200 calories, that means I only need to cut 400 calories from food in order to hit maximum fat loss!

To back this up with proof I eat 2700 calories on all my lifting/cardio days and eat around 2500 on my cardio-only days. Since I've started this I've been losing 2 pounds of fat per week and gaining a bit of muscle.

Now, I'm not shredded just yet so my advice doesn't carry the weight is should just yet, but if you don't believe me get a copy of Tom Venuto's book or at least look a picture of him at under 4% body fat. You won't fit him starving himself.

[SamVDW]

Generally you want to take in 12-15 calories per pound, per day, to maintain weight. If you subtract 500 calories from that total, that ends up being 3500 calories per week which is 1 lb. That doesn't include calories that you burn off through exercise.

If you take the middle of that 'range', 13.5 and mulitply it by your bodyweight of 247 lbs, you get 3334.5 calories to maintain your bodyweight. Obviously you want to lose weight, so we'll subtract 500 calories from that to get 2834.5 calories per day (a 500 calorie deficit). If you ate healthy and spaced your meals out to around four to six meals a day at that caloric amount you should lose approximately 1 lb of fat a week. So your calculation of 2800 calories is accurate, you can lose weight at your size with that amount of food.

Be aware too though, that our bodies are not simply a math equation. What you eat and when you eat it has a lot to do with things too. Whether you're an ectomorph or endomorph can change things. What kind of exercises you are doing. There are so many variables to deal with. But even a poor plan is better than no plan and as the saying goes, "You have to start somewhere!"

Good luck with your diet.

[NaturalNobility]

Generally you want to take in 12-15 calories per pound, per day, to maintain weight. If you subtract 500 calories from that total, that ends up being 3500 calories per week which is 1 lb. That doesn't include calories that you burn off through exercise.

If you take the middle of that 'range', 13.5 and mulitply it by your bodyweight of 247 lbs, you get 3334.5 calories to maintain your bodyweight. Obviously you want to lose weight, so we'll subtract 500 calories from that to get 2834.5 calories per day (a 500 calorie deficit). If you ate healthy and spaced your meals out to around four to six meals a day at that caloric amount you should lose approximately 1 lb of fat a week. So your calculation of 2800 calories is accurate, you can lose weight at your size with that amount of food.

Be aware too though, that our bodies are not simply a math equation. What you eat and when you eat it has a lot to do with things too. Whether you're an ectomorph or endomorph can change things. What kind of exercises you are doing. There are so many variables to deal with. But even a poor plan is better than no plan and as the saying goes, "You have to start somewhere!"

Good luck with your diet.

Where did this number come from? Its rediculous to assume you can base every person off of a static equasion. By this method a 250lb ripped up body builder would need 3375 calories a day to maintain size...

A 250lb body builder probably burns 4000 calories a day at rest.. not to mention his weight routine..

This equasion doesnt take any "ifs" into account.

Take my brother and I for example.

He weighs 222lbs currently with about 50lbs more muscle than me.

I weigh 242. Should I still require more calories per day even though my muscle mass is less than a fourth of his?


Doesnt make much sence does it?

[SamVDW]

Where did this number come from? Its rediculous to assume you can base every person off of a static equasion. By this method a 250lb ripped up body builder would need 3375 calories a day to maintain size...

A 250lb body builder probably burns 4000 calories a day at rest.. not to mention his weight routine..

This equasion doesnt take any "ifs" into account.

Take my brother and I for example.

He weighs 222lbs currently with about 50lbs more muscle than me.

I weigh 242. Should I still require more calories per day even though my muscle mass is less than a fourth of his?


Doesnt make much sence does it?

Maybe you should read my post again.

[NaturalNobility]

Maybe you should read my post again.

Im just trying to find a common denominator in regards to the structure of the equasion. I agree whole heartedly, everyone is different, but the only solid foundation you can base weightloss on is personal goals.

In the origional poster's situation and mine for that matter, you dont need to limit yourself to 2lbs per week if your muscle mass isnt at least 30% of your overall weight.

He has no worries of losing muscle mass while dieting unless he just all out starves himself.

[HatesFat]

I weigh 242. Should I still require more calories per day even though my muscle mass is less than a fourth of his?

From what I understand, yes. Basal metabolic rate knows not muscle or fat.

It would be interesting if it did though, many many eating plans would get thrown out the window.

[DJohnson]

If he loses it right he'll have abs at 200lbs. If he drops to 1800 calories He can expect to lose up to 2lbs of muscle a week. If he can preserve his muscle mass he might be ripped at 200lbs in 27 weeks. If he loses 2 pounds of muscle a week because all he wants to do is lose the weight he'll end up at 146lbs at 10%, but most likely something more like 146lbs at 15% because his metabolism will be dead.

[SamVDW]

Im just trying to find a common denominator in regards to the structure of the equasion. I agree whole heartedly, everyone is different, but the only solid foundation you can base weightloss on is personal goals.

In the origional poster's situation and mine for that matter, you dont need to limit yourself to 2lbs per week if your muscle mass isnt at least 30% of your overall weight.

He has no worries of losing muscle mass while dieting unless he just all out starves himself.

Everyone should worry about losing muscle while dieting and his second post stated that was a concern. Retaining muscle mass is vital to losing weight. 1 lb of fat is going to burn between 4-9 calories per day (resting), while 1 lb of muscle will burn between 20-40 calories per day (resting).

From your body's perspective it looks like this: If food becomes less available, the more fat your have, the more likely you are to survive long enough until more food becomes available again. To the average American couth potato, excessive muscle mass is a liability (from the body's point of view). You need enough to get around and get food but anything more than that is dead weight. Your body will happily break down muscle when you diet if you are not careful.

If he cuts his maintenence calories in half like you suggested, he risks his body going into starvation mode and losing the valuable muscle he does have. He's going to feel and look healthier in the long-run if he takes a gradual approach of losing 1-2 lbs a week.

[Nibblesworth]

AAAHHHHH!!!! My head is spinning!!!! LOL

Regardless of the advice given, I truly thank anyone who has taken the time to give it. Thanks for the help!

Here's my take on 2800 cal/day:

1. I am an 6'1" endomorph with a very large frame--broad shoulders and very long limbs.
2. At 18, in Marine Corps Boot Camp, I dwindled all the way down to a TINY (for me) 161lbs. I still had love handles and a little gut.
3. At 26, I ran the LA Marathon weighing in at a trim 190lbs. I still had a gut and love handles.
4. At 27, I worked my tail off with weights, ate a sub 2000+ calorie diet loaded with crystalized whey protein and chicken, bulked from 190 - 222lbs in 8 weeks, and finished the program with about 15% body fat. Yup, a little gut and love handles.

The only common factor among those three scenarios is the fact that I was using traditional "diets" with all of them, meaning diets that starved me, and I never got rid of my gut. I think the best I've ever done is about 12% BF, and that was 8 weeks into boot camp at an age where I could eat a pound of butter and not gain an ounce of fat.

This board has a number of people who looked like me (in terms of big flabby guts and filthy-soft bodies) who used a 2800+ calorie diet, worked hard, ate healthy, dropped the fat fast, and now look SIMPLY AMAZING!

Seems to me like low cals has done nothing for me but keep me hungry, while high and healthy cals has dropped the fat from fellow BB's bodies.

I'm sticking to the 2800 cal diet for the next month. We'll see if I see a dramatic increase in my physique. Something tells me I will.

Regardless, thanks a BUNCH for any information anyone here is willing to give me. It's appreciated.

[panjt]

AAAHHHHH!!!! My head is spinning!!!! LOL

Regardless of the advice given, I truly thank anyone who has taken the time to give it. Thanks for the help!

Here's my take on 2800 cal/day:

1. I am an 6'1" endomorph with a very large frame--broad shoulders and very long limbs.
2. At 18, in Marine Corps Boot Camp, I dwindled all the way down to a TINY (for me) 161lbs. I still had love handles and a little gut.
3. At 26, I ran the LA Marathon weighing in at a trim 190lbs. I still had a gut and love handles.
4. At 27, I worked my tail off with weights, ate a sub 2000+ calorie diet loaded with crystalized whey protein and chicken, bulked from 190 - 222lbs in 8 weeks, and finished the program with about 15% body fat. Yup, a little gut and love handles.

The only common factor among those three scenarios is the fact that I was using traditional "diets" with all of them, meaning diets that starved me, and I never got rid of my gut. I think the best I've ever done is about 12% BF, and that was 8 weeks into boot camp at an age where I could eat a pound of butter and not gain an ounce of fat.

This board has a number of people who looked like me (in terms of big flabby guts and filthy-soft bodies) who used a 2800+ calorie diet, worked hard, ate healthy, dropped the fat fast, and now look SIMPLY AMAZING!

Seems to me like low cals has done nothing for me but keep me hungry, while high and healthy cals has dropped the fat from fellow BB's bodies.

I'm sticking to the 2800 cal diet for the next month. We'll see if I see a dramatic increase in my physique. Something tells me I will.

Regardless, thanks a BUNCH for any information anyone here is willing to give me. It's appreciated.

Congratulation, u made the right move, don't get in starvation mode. 2800 cal appears reasonable at ur size, lift hard eat right, and ur body will take care of the rest. there is no point at being 165 and have a serious gut, u need some cal to feed this big body. By the way, check on the carbcycling thread, u can be a good candidate. Enjoy this phase cause whatever u do, u will lose fat, I lost 34 pounds in 3 months when I started from 202 to 168 with no abs. I though that I was doing so well, everyweek, thanjs god, I have put on some muscle since and I have learned that weight is bs. All that matter is ur bf and this i along road, long long road. I though I would be done in 3 months, be ready to a long term war , no short cut and u will be good. good luck. U will have bumps on the road, just come back stronger

[amjzzz]

Hey all. 6'1, 247, 27.4%BF. I've got a fat sloppy belly that I'm trying to dump.

Anywho, I do the 5x5 workout on MWF. Each 5x5 day, I finish the workout with 20 mins of cardio. Tuesday and Thursday I do an hour of cardio only.

I've been told that I need 2800 calories (clean, mind you) each day to remain healthy, lose fat, and bulk up.

Yesterday, my diet was something similar to:

2 cups low fat cottage cheese
2 cup bran flakes
1 cup low-fat soy milk
2 sliced multi-grain bread
2 huge salads with tons of leafy greens, kidney beans, various vegetables, and fat free honey mustard dressing.
Half a skinless roasted chicken.

I added all my stuff up, and took in about 1780 calories. I was pretty damn full, and had no idea where I was going to find 1100 extra calories. I tried to space out my meals every two hours or so.

What am I doing wrong? Is 1700 calories unhealthy for me? Am I hurting myself? What should I add to my diet?

Thanks folks!

Not to be harsh, but you didnt get to 247 lbs by not being able to eat enough...

If you eat healthy (high fiber+lots of water) it can be hard to get enough calories. I am eating 3150 cals right now, it was hard for me to get up this high, but you know you just gotta do what works for you. Depending on what type of cals you want you can always sneak more in. For more protein replace some of your water with milk, or for carbs drink juice instead of water, etc.

[endo42]

Mate,

You're fat. You want to get lean but also put on mass. Ok.

But eating 2800 calories?! Come on. I might not be Bill Phillips, but even *I* can tell you that it's too much. I've got plenty of experience at getting lean, and diet is the number one factor. Bottom line is if you want to lose weight, you have to expend more calories than you take in.

If I were you, I'd definitely cut your calories to 1500-1800, tops. Do the iron lifting, but do plenty of aerobic work too. I believe it was Tom Venuto who said it's a good idea to get in 30-45 minutes of moderately-hard cardio EVERY DAY. When I needed to lose 20lbs, that's what did the trick for me, WITHOUT muscle loss.

Keep eating clean, but get down to 1800 cals for goodness' sake. And don't overwhelm yourself with too much. Saying you want to 'lose fat' but also 'bulk up' at the same time sounds like an oxymoron to me! Focus on getting the fat off first, but be sure to do your weight workouts to maintain the muscle you do have. Don't overwhelm yourself with a bucket load of information.

Keep it simple!

u are the biggest super dike ***got idiot ever.....

1500-1800 calories?!

wtf are you reading dumbass?