good carb source for shakes?

[jonnyd]

aside from pre/post workout..
right now i just use milk and squirt a bunch of chocolate syrup in it, but i know this is not a good idea. right now im fine, but i know taking in all that syrup is very unhealthy. i go through a big bottle every 2-3 weeks. im worried about becoming insulin resistant or even diabetic.
can any of you suggest a good carb source that wont cause an insulin flood. any complex carbs that you can mix in shakes?? i heard that maltodextrin is almost like dextrose (with respect to speed of absorption), so that is not an option. any ideas??

[ShadowJack]

One possibility that has been recommended on this board is oatmeal. Excellent complex carb source, easy to get at the store, and very economical. You can add this to your protein shake in a blender, but even better is to pre-grind the oatmeal first. A coffee grinder works well for this.

[Blacksmith]

http://www.glycemicindex.com/

[K (same)]

Originally posted by ShadowJack
...oatmeal. .... You can add this to your protein shake in a blender, but even better is to pre-grind the oatmeal first. A coffee grinder works well for this.

pansy!! Just EAT THE ****!! LOL What are you? granny?? LOL

[b_banner]

dry oatmeal works great. also try mixing 1/2c of all-bran if you need to up your fiber intake.

[Lonny]

I throw in some milled flax seeds. Adds no taste and a bit of thickness. Tons of good fats and fibre as well.

[John Benz]

Originally posted by b_banner
dry oatmeal works great. also try mixing 1/2c of all-bran if you need to up your fiber intake.

Cooked non-instant oatmeal is better. Easier too digest, and provides a bacteria friendly coating for the intestinal lining. I add 1/2 cup of All Bran Extra Fiber to a shake every morning. Has more fiber, and less calories (no sugar) than regular.

[b_banner]

Didn't know that about the bacteria thing. I'm getting a couple of cups/day cooked anyway. The 1/2 dry is just easier early in the AM.

Big emphasis on the "non-instant," though. Old-fashioned is the only way to go.

[dio]

You are doing yourself a great disservice by not taking in high GI carbs post workout. Research has shown that when mixed with protein they are effective replenishing muscle glycogen, increasing protein synthesis and IIRC reducing cortisol. It's a pretty good deal if you think about it

If you are dead set against using high GI carbs you might want to try honey or glutamine.

[csakiges]

Originally posted by dio
You are doing yourself a great disservice by not taking in high GI carbs post workout. Research has shown that when mixed with protein they are effective replenishing muscle glycogen, increasing protein synthesis and IIRC reducing cortisol. It's a pretty good deal if you think about it

If you are dead set against using high GI carbs you might want to try honey or glutamine.

Bump, glycogen is depleted during a strenuous workout, insulin spike flushes the muscle with many nutrients your muscles need. And as Dio said, reduces catabolic hormones like cortisol. Very important is your post-workout. Wow, I sound like Yoda, I typed this last line out and I started laughing. Very important is your post workout. LOL.

Good post workout, high GI carb, protein and even creatine mixed in.

[SupaNatural]

Originally posted by jonnyd
aside from pre/post workout..

I actually think he meant other times of day aside from pre/post workout like he started off with.

You guys make a good point w/the high GI carbs though.

[K (same)]

Originally posted by dio
You are doing yourself a great disservice by not taking in high GI carbs post workout. Research has shown that when mixed with protein they are effective replenishing muscle glycogen, increasing protein synthesis and IIRC reducing cortisol. It's a pretty good deal if you think about it

If you are dead set against using high GI carbs you might want to try honey or glutamine.

Glucose induces insulin spike. It is insulin that causes the above mentioned effect.

ALA can increase glycogen uptake, but does not produce the protein synthesis stimulating and anti-catabolism effect of insulin.

[J-Rod]

When High GI carbs are injested, there are always the risk in some sillage into adipos tissue. When low to moderate GIcarbohydrates are injested and glycogen stores are low or depleted the low to moderate GI carbs effectively replenish glycogen stores without the risk of spillage into adipose tissue. Injestion of High GI carbs is grossly overated. It would be better to have a certain % of High GI carbs balanced out with more metabolically effecient carbs that will be steadily released into the blood stream and support metabolism. Combined with protein, this will not only replenish glycogen but allow the body to use protein for what it is meant for growth and repair. Too many sugars is not healthy on the body...it ages the body and increases free radical production.

[K (same)]

It is a non issue if you factor the glucose in as part of your daily carb requirement. If you don't then you are just asking for it.

[mattlant]

Here's what I do when I need extra carbs

Go buy a big bag of whole wheat flour (10 KG's) for a couple bucks.

Put in about 2 scoops of that and you get about 200-300 extra calories depending on how big your scoop is.

You would be surprised that it doesnt make your shake taste bad. It actually tastes good. Especially if you throw a banana in.

Matt

[TPRES]

J-rod makes a good argument, but I still feel that high gi carbs are the way to go post workout. At other times of the day you will risk spillage into adipose tissue, but if you limit your high gi carbs to post workout the chances of this happening are very slim. Of course it is not necessary to take in the huge amounts of sugar that some recommend. On a side note there have been some studies that have looked at high gi carbs post workout and there effect on adipose storage and they have found that moderate amounts of sugar postworkout will not lead to increased adipose accumulation.

[J-Rod]

Originally posted by TPRES
J-rod makes a good argument, but I still feel that high gi carbs are the way to go post workout. At other times of the day you will risk spillage into adipose tissue, but if you limit your high gi carbs to post workout the chances of this happening are very slim. Of course it is not necessary to take in the huge amounts of sugar that some recommend. On a side note there have been some studies that have looked at high gi carbs post workout and there effect on adipose storage and they have found that moderate amounts of sugar postworkout will not lead to increased adipose accumulation.

Thats what I mean, Moderate Intake of high GI carbs balanced out with low GI carbs. People are buying dextrose and maltodextrin by the pounds and then wonder why they are sitting at 12 to 16% bodyfat?

[csakiges]

Yes, I agree. You want to keep a steady stream of low GI carbs throughout the day into the bloodstream. Thus maintaining a steady insulin level throughout the day and diminshing the risk of adipose storage.

I agree too much dextrose of course will make you fat as J-Rod is saying. But I think from reading the below posts, we are all in a somewhat agreeance of the importance of a good post workout meal. Consisting of High GI carb., protein, and if some use creatine.

[J-Rod]

Originally posted by csakiges
Yes, I agree. You want to keep a steady stream of low GI carbs throughout the day into the bloodstream. Thus maintaining a steady insulin level throughout the day and diminshing the risk of adipose storage.

I agree too much dextrose of course will make you fat as J-Rod is saying. But I think from reading the below posts, we are all in a somewhat agreeance of the importance of a good post workout meal. Consisting of High GI carb., protein, and if some use creatine.

We are not all in agreement with this. I will use about 25% of my carbs from High GI sources, mostly fruit, so I am not supplying my body empty calories. The added fiber and micronutrient and other nutrient found in fruits are HEALTHY and GOOD FOR ME. The other 75% may be oatmeal, cream of wheat or even a yam. 75% of my protein is Whey Isolate Matrix followed of with a scoop of a protein blend that will have whey, milk and egg protein.

[K (same)]

Fruit sugar : fructose has only a minimal effect on the stimulation of insulin secretion.

Good luck on spiking insulin.

Like I said, glucose/dextrose induces insulin spike, which is benefial to protein synthesis and anti catabolism. And this is extremely beneficial in pre/post work out. IF you factor in the glucose (which is NOT table sugar ) into your daily carb intake, you won't have a FAT problem! And most of all , since you would be taking 1 gram of dextrose per kilo of body weight, you can figure out how many grams of dextrose you would be taking. NOT MANY!! Say you are 220 lb ie 100kg, you take 100gram of dextrose. That is 400 CAL. HELLO??? How much CAL you burn in a workout session?

ANyway, I beating on a dead horse here.

[dio]

Originally posted by J-Rod
When High GI carbs are injested, there are always the risk in some sillage into adipos tissue.

This is incorrect. In a post-workout situation, spillover into adipose tissue is negligable. The only real concern, as K stated, is the additional calories if you're not accounting for them.

[dio]

Originally posted by K (same)



Glucose induces insulin spike. It is insulin that causes the above mentioned effect.

ALA can increase glycogen uptake, but does not produce the protein synthesis stimulating and anti-catabolism effect of insulin.

You still need SOMETHING to shuttle into the muscles. If you just bump insulin, where is the glycogen coming from? That's why I mentioned glutamine, which has been shown to replenish glycogen.

[J-Rod]

That is 400 cals of junk. When you add another 250 calories from protein and fat then you have 650 calories. Still not too many calories but the quality of the calories and the efficiency of the body to use them is important. You can get away with a little High GI carbs here and there, especially post workout but lets not go over board. Anyway, if you are happy with the way you look and this works for you then fine. This is just my opinion. Quality nutrients = Results. Also insulin is not just released wiht High GI carbs, it may be spiked, but it will still contribute to protein synthesis and glycogen storage on moderate GI diets and carb intake. You do not want an over secretion of insulin because this leads to adipose storage. 100 grams of High GI carbs leads to GETTIG FATTER!

Oh, its true.

[J-Rod]

Originally posted by dio


You still need SOMETHING to shuttle into the muscles. If you just bump insulin, where is the glycogen coming from? That's why I mentioned glutamine, which has been shown to replenish glycogen.

Glutamine is fine, as is the proper protein profile consisting of all the essential amino acids and BCAA's. And not only the profile but the quantity.

[K (same)]

If 100 gram of glucose is junk to you, then I have nothing to say to you.

IF 100 gram of glucose can make you fat, then you are destined to be fat. Ok hardly a scientific statement there. But neither is J-rod's "opinion".

[J-Rod]

Originally posted by dio


This is incorrect. In a post-workout situation, spillover into adipose tissue is negligable. The only real concern, as K stated, is the additional calories if you're not accounting for them.

Nothing is negligable in regards to performance and physique augmentation. Spillover will always be a risk. You need to factor also in the level of intensity in the training as well. But you still risk spill over is you suck down Malto and Dextro like crazy.

[dio]

Originally posted by J-Rod
That is 400 cals of junk. When you add another 250 calories from protein and fat then you have 650 calories. Still not too many calories but the quality of the calories and the efficiency of the body to use them is important. You can get away with a little High GI carbs here and there, especially post workout but lets not go over board. Anyway, if you are happy with the way you look and this works for you then fine. This is just my opinion. Quality nutrients = Results. Also insulin is not just released wiht High GI carbs, it may be spiked, but it will still contribute to protein synthesis and glycogen storage on moderate GI diets and carb intake. You do not want an over secretion of insulin because this leads to adipose storage. 100 grams of High GI carbs leads to GETTIG FATTER!

Oh, its true.

Who takes in fat post-workout? Maybe people who don't know any better.

Postworkout is the only time I'm recommending high-GI carbs. Again, as I stated unless you go overboard (greater than 100+grams) there is little chance of fat storage.

You can spike insulin and get the replensih glycogen with as little as 25 grams of high GI carbs.

[BigBenn]

Originally posted by J-Rod
That is 400 cals of junk. When you add another 250 calories from protein and fat then you have 650 calories. Still not too many calories but the quality of the calories and the efficiency of the body to use them is important. You can get away with a little High GI carbs here and there, especially post workout but lets not go over board. Anyway, if you are happy with the way you look and this works for you then fine. This is just my opinion. Quality nutrients = Results. Also insulin is not just released wiht High GI carbs, it may be spiked, but it will still contribute to protein synthesis and glycogen storage on moderate GI diets and carb intake. You do not want an over secretion of insulin because this leads to adipose storage. 100 grams of High GI carbs leads to GETTIG FATTER!

Oh, its true.

You are wrong, thats all I have to say.

[dio]

Originally posted by J-Rod


Nothing is negligable in regards to performance and physique augmentation. Spillover will always be a risk. You need to factor also in the level of intensity in the training as well. But you still risk spill over is you suck down Malto and Dextro like crazy.

I realize that you compete J-Rod, but for most people (and proabably competitors too) the effect is negligable.
No one is recommending binging on Malto and Dextro.

[J-Rod]

Originally posted by dio


Who takes in fat post-workout? Maybe people who don't know any better.

Postworkout is the only time I'm recommending high-GI carbs. Again, as I stated unless you go overboard (greater than 100+grams) there is little chance of fat storage.

You can spike insulin and get the replensih glycogen with as little as 25 grams of high GI carbs.

I get about 5 to 7 grams from my oatmeal and protein. That is factored in the calorie equation.

You are generalizing and making great error in your recommendations, but it is a dead point.

I do not have a problem with 25 grams of high GI carbs...100, that is a different story. Blanket statements of X amount of this at Y based off of Z is not right. You need to factor in bodyweight, genetics, supplements, level of intensity in training and goals, before recommending 100 grams of High GI carbs to everyone.