Bodybuilding.com Information Motivation Supplementation
in:

    The Worlds #1 Bodybuilding And Fitness Forum - Save Up To 50% Off Retail Prices In Our Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline

    Post Losing Fat Not Muscle When Dieting!

    I believe we need to tackle, once and for all, the roll gluconeogenesis has for those seeking to use keto diets as a means for fat loss, and it's implications on muscle catabolism due to low carbing.
    We should compare CKD UD2 Carb Cycling etc etc to determine the best
    option for fat loss and muscle sparing depending on bodytype (ecto,
    endo, meso) etc.

    I am writing an article for avantlabs.com, and am seeking everyones input on the above subject(s).

    My view on the subject currenlty goes like this...

    Today many people are seeking to lose weight by attempting to stop inslulin production. Many beleive are unaware that low and no carb (KETO) diets will not only lead to poor performance in the gym, but are extremely catabolic and will lead muscle catabolism (gluconeogenesis). Low carb diets will also leave muscles looking and feeling flat.

    The article will present scientific evidence supporting the importance of regulating insulin production and timing carbohydrate intake to maximize lean muscle gains while dieting for fat loss.

    All input is good input at this point.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Eat low-fat at your peril Max Protein's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Location: London, England
    Age: 29
    Posts: 2,239
    BodyPoints: 550
    Rep Power: 94
    Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) Max Protein has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    Visit Max Protein's BodySpace
    Max Protein is offline
    Agreed, carbs are good. Drop them a little when dieting, but not much.
    I've found that a 50g decrease from the norm (assuming you're on a high-carb diet) is enough to persuade the body to start using bodyfat as energy.
    You gotta go through hell to get the body made in heaven.

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us find ourselves looking up at the stars." - Oscar Wilde
    ---
    Training 4 years...165lbs @ 6.5% bodyfat
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    this is a custom title ellipticer's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2004
    Location: Vancouver █♣█
    Age: 39
    Stats: 5'10", 173 lbs
    Posts: 2,764
    BodyPoints: 1021
    Rep Power: 804
    ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) ellipticer has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    Visit ellipticer's BodySpace
    ellipticer is offline
    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Many beleive are unaware that low and no carb (KETO) diets will not only lead to poor performance in the gym, but are extremely catabolic and will lead muscle catabolism (gluconeogenesis). Low carb diets will also leave muscles looking and feeling flat.
    I am interested in your project, but you need to clarify this is if it is your base position.

    "extremely catabolic" ??

    Is this relevant if the diet has a carb-up phase, either every few days or every week? Because I really disagree with it if that is what you are inferring. CKD/TKD make it easy to retain muscle mass while losing fat.

    "looking and feeling flat" ??

    Generalization and it disappears the next day if you carb-up.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Registered User KingWill's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2003
    Posts: 887
    Rep Power: 52
    KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    KingWill is offline
    One thing you might want to try and avoid is lumping everyone together, unless that makes it impossible to write your article. I believe "good" carbs are very important, but at the same time I am insulin resistant or carb sensitive, however you wish to phrase it, and am forced to limit carbs. A 40/40/20 split doesn't work for every one. Not to shoot down your line of thinking, however it is possible to lose fat and keep it off, and to build muscle, while on a carb restrictive diet.

    Now looking back at your original post I guess I do disagree with you almost completely. Just my 2 cents.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User KingWill's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2003
    Posts: 887
    Rep Power: 52
    KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    KingWill is offline
    Originally Posted by Max Protein
    Agreed, carbs are good. Drop them a little when dieting, but not much.
    I've found that a 50g decrease from the norm (assuming you're on a high-carb diet) is enough to persuade the body to start using bodyfat as energy.
    If you believe that, and I do not disagree, at what level of carb depletion do you stop believing it? Human beings have been burning fat for energy for many thousands of years longer than we have been burning carbs for energy. It is only in our recent history that carbs were even readily available to us.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Originally Posted by ellipticer
    I am interested in your project, but you need to clarify this is if it is your base position.

    "extremely catabolic" ??

    Is this relevant if the diet has a carb-up phase, either every few days or every week? Because I really disagree with it if that is what you are inferring. CKD/TKD make it easy to retain muscle mass while losing fat.

    "looking and feeling flat" ??

    Generalization and it disappears the next day if you carb-up.
    ellip, this is exactly what I am trying to pinpoint and settle both in my mind, and for the beneift of all bb's for whom losing lean mass is not an option when dieting.

    I believe that refeeds or "carb ups" are the way to go along with maintaingin a small level of carbs (say 100g or less) the rest of the week.

    Your opinion is highley respected IMO, and I am looking forward to getting any feedback on links, articles that you know of, and just your educated opinion on this subject.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Originally Posted by KingWill
    One thing you might want to try and avoid is lumping everyone together, unless that makes it impossible to write your article. I believe "good" carbs are very important, but at the same time I am insulin resistant or carb sensitive, however you wish to phrase it, and am forced to limit carbs. A 40/40/20 split doesn't work for every one. Not to shoot down your line of thinking, however it is possible to lose fat and keep it off, and to build muscle, while on a carb restrictive diet.

    Now looking back at your original post I guess I do disagree with you almost completely. Just my 2 cents.
    40/40/20 split is NOT what I believe is the best, so no worries there. I believe in timing carb intake. as for gaining muscle on a very low carb diet, I do NOT believe this is possible for ectomorphs, though it may be for endos/mesos. I also believe that ectos will turn highly catabolic on less than 20% carbs for more than 1-2 days in a row. I want to make this a highly scientific article providing all the accurate information and dispelling the erroneous information floating out there. this will mainly adress the ecto hardgainers, and it will emphasize that all men do NOT repsond identically to carb intake.

    As for being carb "sensitive" or insulin resistant, this is another subject, and I feel the best way to become more insulin sensitivie is by eating the right carbs at the right times of day versus cutting them out altogether. Thats said, it will be important to rememebr the targter audience will be those who are looking to MINIMIZE muscle catabolism while dieting and even gain some lean mass while dieting.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    smurf rockstarsar's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 3,659
    BodyPoints: 14806
    Rep Power: 3046
    rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit rockstarsar's BodySpace
    rockstarsar is offline
    Well, low carb diets are typically low insulin diets, and low insulin levels have been linked to low testosterone levels. There's one reason to go for a cyclical approach. High protein, low fat, low carb, as many stupid people in the US try to do, is simply retarded. Around half of the protein they ingest is converted to glucose anyway, and fat oxidation is not increased in lower fat levels - only in lower carbohydrate levels. Oh, and people don't seem to get that insulin does not need to be present to store fat. (in other words, ignore Berardi's Massive Eating mumbo jumbo)

    Body types don't really have much to do with it ..any body type can get decent results with a decent diet and training plan. Some people are, after all, better off on high fat/low carb, and others (but less) are better off on high carb, low fat. Obviously there is a middle ground.

    P.S. It's better to be insulin resistant when dieting.
    forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=527284

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
    part of DA...keep it on the QT

    FeMMisc SPA #5
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Originally Posted by rockstarsar
    Well, low carb diets are typically low insulin diets, and low insulin levels have been linked to low testosterone levels. There's one reason to go for a cyclical approach. High protein, low fat, low carb, as many stupid people in the US try to do, is simply retarded. Around half of the protein they ingest is converted to glucose anyway, and fat oxidation is not increased in lower fat levels - only in lower carbohydrate levels. Oh, and people don't seem to get that insulin does not need to be present to store fat. (in other words, ignore Berardi's Massive Eating mumbo jumbo)

    Body types don't really have much to do with it ..any body type can get decent results with a decent diet and training plan. Some people are, after all, better off on high fat/low carb, and others (but less) are better off on high carb, low fat. Obviously there is a middle ground.

    P.S. It's better to be insulin resistant when dieting.
    Totally agreed on your 1st paragraph, and evidence supporting your remark on low T levels will be included in the article!

    As for body types not having to do with it; that is inaccurate IMO. anyone can see that it has everyhting to do with it, else we would all look the same if we ate the same diets. the fact is, may people do eat the same diets yet look TOTALLY different. you are right on different diets for different people. it is also goal based, some obese individuals, say, do not mind losing muscle while dieting. They simply want to "lose weight". The same can go for anyone looking to diet I guess.

    As for the P.S about being insulin resistent, that too, is erroneous IMO. How are nutrients such as proteins/amino acids etc going to unlock the "doors" to your muscle cells, and any other body cell for that matter, if they don't have the "key". Insulin is this key.

    Another misnomer that I want to dispell is that no carbs=no insulin. The new Insulin Index providing an insulin score for many foods has proven that your body will release insulin in repsonse to protein ingestion exactly the same as it will in repsone to carbs. Even the GI score is somehwat misleading in certain cases. For example, I may have a large release of insulin in response to eating a slice of lean beef as I would eating a bowl of steel cut oats. What gives? Each macro plays an important role in bodily function, and even more so for someone trying to build/maintain lean mass while dieting.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    smurf rockstarsar's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 3,659
    BodyPoints: 14806
    Rep Power: 3046
    rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit rockstarsar's BodySpace
    rockstarsar is offline
    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    As for body types not having to do with it; that is inaccurate IMO. anyone can see that it has everyhting to do with it, else we would all look the same if we ate the same diets. the fact is, may people do eat the same diets yet look TOTALLY different. you are right on different diets for different people. it is also goal based, some obese individuals, say, do not mind losing muscle while dieting. They simply want to "lose weight". The same can go for anyone looking to diet I guess.
    I thought you were referring to the somatotypes - ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph, etc. Those are phenotype descriptions, and I think the focus should be placed on the genotypes which are expressed through those phenotypes. Which sounds like what you are basically saying. I do think somatotype has a role to play when choosing your training approach (i.e. cardio, type and frequency). It's easy to look at an obese person and say, "They should go on a low carb diet because they're fat around the middle." My point's attempt was to say, "They are probably fat around the middle because of insulin/cortisol problems, therefore, they may benefit from reducing their carbs to stabilize hormone levels."

    As for the P.S about being insulin resistent, that too, is erroneous IMO. How are nutrients such as proteins/amino acids etc going to unlock the "doors" to your muscle cells, and any other body cell for that matter, if they don't have the "key". Insulin is this key.
    Maybe overall, insulin sensitivity is good to avoid oversecreting insulin, but being insulin resistant reduces the use of glucose as fuel by the muscles. This lets the brain use the glucose instead, and thus the muscles turn to fatty acids for fuel. According to Lyle McDonald, clen and ephedrine both cause insulin resistance. I was surprised to learn this.

    Another misnomer that I want to dispell is that no carbs=no insulin. The new Insulin Index providing an insulin score for many foods has proven that your body will release insulin in repsonse to protein ingestion exactly the same as it will in repsone to carbs. Even the GI score is somehwat misleading in certain cases. For example, I may have a large release of insulin in response to eating a slice of lean beef as I would eating a bowl of steel cut oats. What gives? Each macro plays an important role in bodily function, and even more so for someone trying to build/maintain lean mass while dieting.
    All right, true there. But probably a low carb diet has a net result of lower insulin levels than the person's pre-diet nutrition regimen. Take out the cinnabons and donuts, and if they have half a brain, they'll eat more vegetables and whatnot which, even when combined with higher II ranking foods like beef, is condusive to lower insulin levels.
    forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=527284

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
    part of DA...keep it on the QT

    FeMMisc SPA #5
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Originally Posted by rockstarsar
    I thought you were referring to the somatotypes - ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph, etc. Those are phenotype descriptions, and I think the focus should be placed on the genotypes which are expressed through those phenotypes. Which sounds like what you are basically saying. I do think somatotype has a role to play when choosing your training approach (i.e. cardio, type and frequency). It's easy to look at an obese person and say, "They should go on a low carb diet because they're fat around the middle." My point's attempt was to say, "They are probably fat around the middle because of insulin/cortisol problems, therefore, they may benefit from reducing their carbs to stabilize hormone levels."
    Good Point.
    Originally Posted by rockstarsar
    Maybe overall, insulin sensitivity is good to avoid oversecreting insulin, but being insulin resistant reduces the use of glucose as fuel by the muscles. This lets the brain use the glucose instead, and thus the muscles turn to fatty acids for fuel. According to Lyle McDonald, clen and ephedrine both cause insulin resistance. I was surprised to learn this.
    Insulin Sensitivity means you cells stop repsonding to insulin which ends up creating. As put by a brother on abcbodybuilding... "Insulin is the most significant aspect of any diet program. Whether your goal is to gain or lose weight, the manipulation of this hormone will ultimately be the deciding factor of how quickly you reach your goals in either direction." How TRUE is that statement.

    As for a good definition of insulin resistance I will quote my brother again... "Insulin resistance refers to your muscle cells being resistant to the effects of insulin. In turn your body must release more insulin in response to the consumption of food. The more insulin resistant your muscle cells are, the more insulin your body will release from its pancreas to promote storage of nutrients in them.

    As for a good definition on Insulin Resistance I will quote my brother again... "Seeing how our goal is to keep insulin levels to a minimum, we will want to promote insulin sensitivity and manipulate it to our benefit! The question of the day is, how can we accomplish this? "

    Not sure where McDonald is coming from, though I respect his words for sure.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User KingWill's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2003
    Posts: 887
    Rep Power: 52
    KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    KingWill is offline
    Originally Posted by rockstarsar
    Well, low carb diets are typically low insulin diets, and low insulin levels have been linked to low testosterone levels. There's one reason to go for a cyclical approach. High protein, low fat, low carb, as many stupid people in the US try to do, is simply retarded. Around half of the protein they ingest is converted to glucose anyway, and fat oxidation is not increased in lower fat levels - only in lower carbohydrate levels. Oh, and people don't seem to get that insulin does not need to be present to store fat. (in other words, ignore Berardi's Massive Eating mumbo jumbo)

    Body types don't really have much to do with it ..any body type can get decent results with a decent diet and training plan. Some people are, after all, better off on high fat/low carb, and others (but less) are better off on high carb, low fat. Obviously there is a middle ground.

    P.S. It's better to be insulin resistant when dieting.

    I disagree 100%. How did humans survive before the agricultural revolution 1000 years ago and the industrial revolution 200 years ago? Do you not understand that humans have only had a diet consisting of a significant amount of carbs for a tiny pecent of the time we have been on this planet. And if protein gets converted to glucose anyway, what is the point of eating the carbs everyday. The so called fact that carbs are required for energy is a myth and all the low carb bashers need to come to grips with that. Do you know what the daily carb requirements are for a person to live are? ZERO. You have to have fat and you have to have protein but you don't have to have carbs. Am I saying go zero carbs - of course not. Look at all the nations across the world and you will find the ones with the highest CARB consumption are also the ones with the highest obesity rates and diabetes rates. Coincidence? I don't think so. It's one thing to have a ifference of opinion but a totally other thing to call people you disagree with stupid and retarded. Your PS about insulin resistance is so far off the mark I am postive you do not know what it is. Care to explain to all of us how being IR helps when dieting?
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Originally Posted by KingWill
    I disagree 100%. How did humans survive before the agricultural revolution 1000 years ago and the industrial revolution 200 years ago? Do you not understand that humans have only had a diet consisting of a significant amount of carbs for a tiny pecent of the time we have been on this planet. And if protein gets converted to glucose anyway, what is the point of eating the carbs everyday. The so called fact that carbs are required for energy is a myth and all the low carb bashers need to come to grips with that. Do you know what the daily carb requirements are for a person to live are? ZERO. You have to have fat and you have to have protein but you don't have to have carbs. Am I saying go zero carbs - of course not. Look at all the nations across the world and you will find the ones with the highest CARB consumption are also the ones with the highest obesity rates and diabetes rates. Coincidence? I don't think so. It's one thing to have a ifference of opinion but a totally other thing to call people you disagree with stupid and retarded. Your PS about insulin resistance is so far off the mark I am postive you do not know what it is. Care to explain to all of us how being IR helps when dieting?
    worth noting, it has been shown that high fat intake can equal very substantial T production.

    as for protein benig converted to glucose, that is true, however it is VERY expensive. That is why high fat intake is taken in attmept to get the body using fat for fuel versus the dietary protein. the article will be more geared towards building lean mass while dieting and having high energy octane in the tank for intense resistance training.

    You are correct on the PS. he has admitted that already.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    smurf rockstarsar's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 3,659
    BodyPoints: 14806
    Rep Power: 3046
    rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit rockstarsar's BodySpace
    rockstarsar is offline
    Originally Posted by KingWill
    I disagree 100%. How did humans survive before the agricultural revolution 1000 years ago and the industrial revolution 200 years ago? Do you not understand that humans have only had a diet consisting of a significant amount of carbs for a tiny pecent of the time we have been on this planet. And if protein gets converted to glucose anyway, what is the point of eating the carbs everyday. The so called fact that carbs are required for energy is a myth and all the low carb bashers need to come to grips with that. Do you know what the daily carb requirements are for a person to live are? ZERO. You have to have fat and you have to have protein but you don't have to have carbs. Am I saying go zero carbs - of course not. Look at all the nations across the world and you will find the ones with the highest CARB consumption are also the ones with the highest obesity rates and diabetes rates. Coincidence? I don't think so. It's one thing to have a ifference of opinion but a totally other thing to call people you disagree with stupid and retarded. Your PS about insulin resistance is so far off the mark I am postive you do not know what it is. Care to explain to all of us how being IR helps when dieting?

    I said high protein , low fat, low carb was junk, NOT adequate protein, high fat, low carb. I didn't say everyone needs carbs - I said if your goal is maximum lean mass retention, you would do well to cycle periods of low carbs with higher carbs. I am not a low carb basher. I am doing UD2 right now. I called the high protein, low carb/low fat spin off Atkins approach retarded, not the people who follow it. They are simply uninformed and ignorant that you cannot do a low fat low carb diet.

    Okinawans aren't obese.

    Worth noting is the fact the typical American diet is only around 40% carbs, but we have plenty of obesity and diabetes problems. It's the type of carbs, obviously, but it would be wrong to say high carb is bad. Some people are descended from people who do well on high carb, i.e. olden day
    Asia.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/for...read.php?t=881
    Originally Posted by lylemcd
    the thing to realize is what insulin resistance actually implies. Insulin is a storage hormone, stimulating nutrient uptake in many tissues (including liver, muscle, and fat cells). This is especially true for glucose.

    So what happens when fat cells are insulin resistant? It means that insulin can't inhibit lipolysis (fat breakdown). Nor can it activate nutrient storage. This is part of why severely insulin resistannt individuals get increased blood levels of glucose, fatty acids and cholesterol, insulin is unable to either limit release from the cell or stimulate uptake. Since muscle is full (see below), they either get stored in inappropriate places (beta-cells of the liver) or float around in the bloodstream.

    What about in muscle? An insulin resistant muscle cell is unable to uptake glucose. Without glucose to use for fuel, the cell has to find an alternative source. In this case, that alternative source is fatty acids.

    So when fat cell insulin resistance is high, fatty acids are easier to mobilze. When muscle cell insulin resistance is high, glucose isn't used for fuel and fatty acids are. So in a caloric deficit, this means you use more fat for fuel b/c they are coming out of fat cells more easily and muscle is usingg them preferentially for fuel.

    this is part of how things like clen, EC and GH work. By mobilizing fatty acids at a high rate and making the muscle cell insulin resistant, muscle has to forego glucose for fuel and use the mobilized fatty acids instead (note: this also spares protein in a carb insufficient state). A recent study on GH found that the fatty acid mobilizing effect of GH was THE key to its protein sparing effects: block the increase in fatty acids and you get the same amount of protein loss.

    On that note, you should realize that studies examining predisoposition to obesity (for example, in the Pima indians) find that insulin sensitivity predicts weight gain and insulin resistance predicts weight loss or stability.

    Insulin resistance develops with obesity and can be thought of as a way for the body trying to prevent further weight gain. Note that this is different in growing individuals such as children or pregnant women.

    To be even more accurate to what I wrote above you need to differentiate muscle insulin resistance from whole body insulin resistance. In general, the body will develop insulin resistance in this order:

    liver then muscle then fat cell

    There are some weird genetic exceptions but the above would be a typical progression with diet induced insulin resistance.

    Now, when muscle becomes insulin resistant, this shuttles more calories to the fat cells preferentially. In that sense, localized (muscular) insulin resistance causes more fat to be gained for a given caloric load. It's negative calorie partitioning. Note that this isn't only local, there are central (brain effects) controlling these processes as well.

    This makes perfect sense: if the muscle is plenty full of nutrients and there is still a surplus, they should get pushed into storage as effectively as possible. So the msucle stops accepting nutrients and the rest go to the fat cells. The best way to prevent this is not to overeat and to deplete muscular fuel stores with exercise. In modern society, we do both: eat too much and don't exercise often enough. So muscle gets full of nutrients, becomes insulin resistant, and the excess calroeis go to fat cells post haste.

    But as fat cells get filled up, problems start. The fat cell starts releasing a lot of hormones such as leptin, TNf-alpha, resistin (may only be relevant in rats) and others that prevent further nutrient storage (you can also get an increase in fat cell number). Now you're developing full body insulin resistance.

    Once full body insulin resistance develops (with obesity), this acts to LIMIT further weight gain. Note that insulin resistance also means higher basal levels of insulin (there are also higher levlels of leptin as you get this fat). Both insulin and leptin *should* act to signal the brain to make you stop eating but the system isn't very sensitive to that. Additionally, it serves to push nutrients towards oxidation when you diet for the reasons above.

    It's interesting to note that individuals without fat cells (lipodystrophy), which mimicks full body insulin resistance are protected against weight gain. First their muscles and liver fill up with nutrients, then they develop severe hyperglycemia, hypercholesterolemia and all the rest. Individuals with severe genetic insulin resistance have the same effect occur: they don't gain weight. They get a bunch of other health problems if you overfeed them but the severe genetic insulin resistance makes it so tnutrients can't be stored in their cells.

    Also consider that insulin sensitivity improves as you lose weight. And the single time you are most prone to gain wight is at the end of the diet: when you are most insulin SENSITIVE.

    As above, insulin sensitivity predicts weight gain, insulin resistance (full body) weight/fat loss.

    Basically insulin resistance isn't always BAD. Quite in fact, it can be adaptive.

    Now, in the context of excess calories/carbs and no activity (i.e. weight gain), insulin resistance is a bad thing to have. If you have muscular insulin resistance, more calories go to fat cells. If you have ful lbody insulin resistance, excess calories either sit in the bloodsream or get stored in the wrong spots, causing cell death.

    Actually, if the goal is muscle gain with limited fat gain, it'd be wonderful to have fat cells resistant to nutrient storage and locally increase muscular insulin sensitivity. This would cause preferential nutrient partitioning to muscle. The question is how to do it. I have an idea but it's not fully fleshed out. For fatter individuals who begin an exercise program, this occurs naturally which is (IMO) one reason they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. The exercise preferentially improves muscular insulin sensitivity, the fat cells are releasing fat like nobody's business and you get calorie partitioning until the point that it all starts to balance out.

    When you're dieting and not eating enough carbs (by definition, on a diet, carbs are reduced), insulin resistance is adaptive. By making muscle rely on fatty acids for fuel, glucose is spared for the brain and other tissues which require it.

    Note that most of the current insulin sensitizing medications (especially the TZD drugs) cause further weight gain. Obesity docs don't care becuse they just want to see blood glucose and the rest levels go down.

    As above, whole body insulin resistance develops in an effort to both limit further fat/weight gain and ensure that the body burns the fat off (sparing muscle) when you diet. This would have been adaptive in the context of our evolutionary dieting pattern, it's maladptive in our current environment.

    Right before his death, Dan Duchaine commented that adding insulin sensitizersr to a diet seemed to increase muscle loss.
    Last edited by rockstarsar; 06-03-2005 at 10:05 AM.
    forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=527284

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
    part of DA...keep it on the QT

    FeMMisc SPA #5
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Nice thread.

    I agree 100% with what is stated in the article. One thing which is equally as important, and consequently left out in the article, is the fact that using fat for energy CAN NOT create the benefit insulin has in cellular nutrient uptake. So, bb's need insulin, just need to be picky about when and how much.
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    smurf rockstarsar's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 3,659
    BodyPoints: 14806
    Rep Power: 3046
    rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit rockstarsar's BodySpace
    rockstarsar is offline
    and from Di Pasquale:
    And while I'm at it, this whole business about insulin sensitivity and resistance is also a real crock. Being insulin resistant can be a good thing under certain circumstances.

    It may not be good for the couch potatoe, who eats mainly potatoes, and who's paunch measures twice as much as his chest, but it can be good for the person who's fit, trains with weights, and wants to maximize health and body composition.

    Why? Man that word comes up a lot.

    Because first of all insulin resistance doesn't have to be bad and in fact can be a good thing. Especially if you're on a low carb diet and want to use fat, either dietary or body fat, as your primary fuel. If you want to have less body fat and more muscle than the average mall shopping, carb munching, TV addicted, normal male and female in this anemic society of ours.

    Insulin resistance in glucose metabolism, which can allow increased use of free fatty acids, and therefore body fat, as fuel, can be present along side of insulin sensitivity in amino acid transport and protein synthesis, which maximizes muscle mass, and with insulin resistance to fat tissue, which increases lipolyis and decreases lipogenesis.
    Last edited by rockstarsar; 06-03-2005 at 10:51 AM.
    forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=527284

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
    part of DA...keep it on the QT

    FeMMisc SPA #5
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    smurf rockstarsar's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Posts: 3,659
    BodyPoints: 14806
    Rep Power: 3046
    rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) rockstarsar has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit rockstarsar's BodySpace
    rockstarsar is offline
    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Nice thread.

    I agree 100% with what is stated in the article. One thing which is equally as important, and consequently left out in the article, is the fact that using fat for energy CAN NOT create the benefit insulin has in cellular nutrient uptake. So, bb's need insulin, just need to be picky about when and how much.
    I agree with that last statement; most people cannot gain mass on low carb diets (except cyclical ones, perhaps, but even still, those are not ideal) because low carb diets just do not provide a good environment for muscle anabolism.
    forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=527284

    Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
    part of DA...keep it on the QT

    FeMMisc SPA #5
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User KingWill's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2003
    Posts: 887
    Rep Power: 52
    KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) KingWill has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    KingWill is offline
    I am neither an author nor a doctor, however I have been dealing with this issue for the last 2 1/2 years, and let me tell you how it has worked for me. I will try to keep this as short as possible. January 2003, I was 342 lbs, blood sugar levels through the roof, and border line type 2 diabetic. Went to low to no carbs, started lifting and walking and got down to 260-265 lbs. and 20%BF. I then figured (not very bright on my part) that I could start now incorporating carbs back into my diet. Old fashion oats, brown rice, yams, all the good stuff. Continued to work out and do cardio and the weight loss came to a standstill for 6 months. At the end I got down to around 2000 calories a day and was still not losing weight. Did an experiment with my Glucometer and discovered no matter what carbs I ate, my blood sugar would go fairly high and then stay high for a decent amount of time. Fat loss was not occuring. A light bulb went off (after 6 months, I mentioned sometimes I am not so bright) and I went back to low to no carbs with a carb up day every 4-7 days. Over the last 3 months I have now dropped another 20 lbs and am down to 240 and on my way to 225.

    All I can tell you is it has been my experience and the experiences of 4 or 5 other people on this board that I have been in contact with, that being IR does not work like the link you posted. Actually, that is the only thing I have EVER read that suggests being IR helps in the fat burning process. In real life, fat burning comes to a stand still.

    I probably won't be able to change any minds but just consider one thing. If being IR actually helped dieting and helped burn fat why is it linked hand in hand with being overweight? (other than the link you posted). I realize this has gotten off topic here, however, even though it is not a popular train of thought among bodybuilders and particulary on this board it has been my experience it is possible to lose fat, retain muscle and energy, all while being carb restrictive. We can argue and discuss all day long, but sometimes it's best to hear it from someone who has been there and done that as opposed to basing your opinions on things we read on the internet. Haven't scientist proven that the wings of hummingbirds aren't large enough for them to be able to fly?
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Registered User IronPimper's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2005
    Location: Winston Salem, North Carolina, United States
    Age: 34
    Stats: 5'10", 187 lbs
    Posts: 1,104
    BodyPoints: 720
    Rep Power: 560
    IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) IronPimper has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    Visit IronPimper's BodySpace
    IronPimper is offline
    when i have more time, i will post some links and such to more accurately support my opinion, but for now i will leave it at this.

    Dave Palumbo (he's in jail now, has been trying to become a pro unsuccessfully for about 15 years, but is always big and ripped) never eats carbs. I repeat, NEVER. Now, obviously he has the help of steroids, but none the less it is needless to say that the body does not need carbs to maintain itself or muscle.

    That aside, I do believe that almost every individual should consume carbs pre and post workout because if you don't you are forcing your body to work very hard to utilize protein and fats as a main energy source. However, that is not to say that it can't be done. If one were to take in say 50 grams of protein and 30 grams of fat pre workout as well as post workout and supplement correctly pre, during, and post workout with bcaa's and glutamine I believe that catabolism could be completely avoided and a substantial amount of fat could be burned if you work out at a decent pace or do cardio after your resistance training.

    When I personally am cutting I cycle my carbs. I arrange my carb schedule around my lifting schedule, which calls for two cardio only days. on those days i only consume 1 meal with carbs as my second meal of the day. i cycle from 300-325 to 150-200 to 75-100 to 40-50 to 150 to 75 to 40, then back to 300. It works for me and I can say I have never lost any strength or noticable amount of muscle during dieting. However, I do believe that for the purposes of competing it is impossible to not have a zero carb day, as this would severely hinder your ability to get ripped.

    In short, you can lose body fat in a number of ways, cardio, diet, lifting, cardio and diet, lifting and diet, all 3, etc. No matter what, controlling your carb intake will allow you to burn fat easier for one reason and one reason only: muscles need protein, and if you don't have carbs, then your body will make energy from fat. if you eat carbs, then your body will use the carbs for energy and it will take longer for your body to use fat. not to mention it's easier to control caloric intake when you control carbs.
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Age: 41
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 7,210
    BodyPoints: 12203
    Rep Power: 7211
    HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) HalleluYAH has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit HalleluYAH's BodySpace
    HalleluYAH is offline
    Originally Posted by IronPimper
    when i have more time, i will post some links and such to more accurately support my opinion, but for now i will leave it at this.

    Dave Palumbo (he's in jail now, has been trying to become a pro unsuccessfully for about 15 years, but is always big and ripped) never eats carbs. I repeat, NEVER. Now, obviously he has the help of steroids, but none the less it is needless to say that the body does not need carbs to maintain itself or muscle.

    That aside, I do believe that almost every individual should consume carbs pre and post workout because if you don't you are forcing your body to work very hard to utilize protein and fats as a main energy source. However, that is not to say that it can't be done. If one were to take in say 50 grams of protein and 30 grams of fat pre workout as well as post workout and supplement correctly pre, during, and post workout with bcaa's and glutamine I believe that catabolism could be completely avoided and a substantial amount of fat could be burned if you work out at a decent pace or do cardio after your resistance training.

    When I personally am cutting I cycle my carbs. I arrange my carb schedule around my lifting schedule, which calls for two cardio only days. on those days i only consume 1 meal with carbs as my second meal of the day. i cycle from 300-325 to 150-200 to 75-100 to 40-50 to 150 to 75 to 40, then back to 300. It works for me and I can say I have never lost any strength or noticable amount of muscle during dieting. However, I do believe that for the purposes of competing it is impossible to not have a zero carb day, as this would severely hinder your ability to get ripped.

    In short, you can lose body fat in a number of ways, cardio, diet, lifting, cardio and diet, lifting and diet, all 3, etc. No matter what, controlling your carb intake will allow you to burn fat easier for one reason and one reason only: muscles need protein, and if you don't have carbs, then your body will make energy from fat. if you eat carbs, then your body will use the carbs for energy and it will take longer for your body to use fat. not to mention it's easier to control caloric intake when you control carbs.
    I agree with you on carb cycling. I have a thread on carb cycling with about 500 posts in the fat loss forum, perhaps you would benefit from checking it out...we could always use some ecperienced carb cyclers to pass on advice and provide feedback for the newcomers etc...here's the link... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=457715

    As for Dave Palumbo, if he uses ROIDS leave him out of normal discussions. You can throw most natural bb discussions out the window when comparing them to roid users. c'mon now.

    ;-)
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
    www.strengthandscience.com

    Psalms 51:10-13
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Registered User saihaynes's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2005
    Stats: 6'0", 170 lbs
    Posts: 309
    BodyPoints: 23
    Rep Power: 12
    saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) saihaynes is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Visit saihaynes's BodySpace
    saihaynes is offline
    This is a very good thread with valid points being raised by both sides. I think utimately we need to accept that we all have different views and respond differently to no/low/high carb based diets. You only have to do a search on google or within the forums here at bb.com to find `expert` opinions on how we should train, eat etc. Most of the time there are conflicting views on all aspects of training....how many sets/reps....how much protein/carbs/cals/fat etc........different people swear by different approaches. Does this make them wrong....nope but IMO there is so much hype flying around as to what is the best way to train and eat that the only way people will ever know is if they are willing to try things for themselves to see how they respond. Keep up the good work guys...................
    Reply With Quote

Reply

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Home Store Products Careers Help Contact Us Terms of Use Checkout