Steroid Free Pics

[brettf2]

You guys are pathetic, honestly. Just because most of you don't have the dedication and will to succeed beyond potential doesn't mean that other people can't too.
Roids are the main object these unmotivated tools use to back up their arguments or use as proof. This is only an excuse to not train hard, "If I'm not taking roids, there's no point in training hard and giving up all I've got, because I can't get big without roids and I'm scared of overtraining, and these genetics are holding me back, rather, I'll train like everyone else does and accuse anyone over 200 pounds a juicer".
'Genetics, genetics', thats all I read, 'genetics are the key to success'; I think not. Take at look at Abdominator's first picture, you'd presume someone that skinny will never put on weight because of 'genetics'. Genetics are your base/foundation, where you choose to go from there is up to you, its all in your mind. Overtraining is another issue too. Most people use this as an excuse to not train hard. In reality, you are probably undertraining. If you're nutrition and sleep is right, it is very hard to overtrain, and thus this another obstacle people put in their way.
You people (not all) make it seem that its impossible to get big without roids or 'good genetics', unfortunately this is the mentallity holding you back from breaking past your potential. Those naturals you see up there don't hold up barriers or obstacles, they break through them.
Their secret is dedication, motivation and will, something you people lack.
To Layne and Abdominator, don't waste your time trying to explain to these undertrained and misinformed idiots (not refering to everyone).

Who are you lecturing...? Just because someone complains of a minor genetic setback (such as bicep peak) doesn't mean they think that genetics are the key to success. Also, I have never heard anyone ever, let alone here ever use overtraining as an excuse not to train too hard. I think you are confused, overtraining deals with the frequency of working out as well as length and intensity, and most people would rather wait till their muscle fibers rebuild before working out.

You call us pathetic and lacking in dedication for voicing an honest opinion, and you go too far by implying that we think that everyone with a better physique than us is on roids. It isn't us being jealous, it us just our realistic opinion. You say it is very hard to overtrain with proper nutrition and sleep, but almost everyone is guilty of overtraining at some point even when they are eating right and getting enough sleep. I think you need to revise your bodybuilding knowledge before calling some of us pathetic, undertraining idiots.

[TNCEKM]

You guys are pathetic, honestly. Just because most of you don't have the dedication and will to succeed beyond potential doesn't mean that other people can't too.
Roids are the main object these unmotivated tools use to back up their arguments or use as proof. This is only an excuse to not train hard, "If I'm not taking roids, there's no point in training hard and giving up all I've got, because I can't get big without roids and I'm scared of overtraining, and these genetics are holding me back, rather, I'll train like everyone else does and accuse anyone over 200 pounds a juicer".
'Genetics, genetics', thats all I read, 'genetics are the key to success'; I think not. Take at look at Abdominator's first picture, you'd presume someone that skinny will never put on weight because of 'genetics'. Genetics are your base/foundation, where you choose to go from there is up to you, its all in your mind. Overtraining is another issue too. Most people use this as an excuse to not train hard. In reality, you are probably undertraining. If you're nutrition and sleep is right, it is very hard to overtrain, and thus this another obstacle people put in their way.
You people (not all) make it seem that its impossible to get big without roids or 'good genetics', unfortunately this is the mentallity holding you back from breaking past your potential. Those naturals you see up there don't hold up barriers or obstacles, they break through them.
Their secret is dedication, motivation and will, something you people lack.
To Layne and Abdominator, don't waste your time trying to explain to these undertrained and misinformed idiots (not refering to everyone).

You just made me laugh...thank you!

Listen, nobody is saying that someone with average genetics can't get a great physique and nobody is saying you have to be juiced to look great.

I'm basically just saying that the drastic change in the physique of "some" of the "natural" bodybuilders is too amazing for me to comprehend and accept them as natural. I can understand why the non-natural guys got so much bigger. They're on ridiculous amounts of drugs. I know a few NPC competitors and what they're drug-lists look like...it's gross in some cases--other cases the genetically gifted don't (relatively) that much sauce.

[str8flexed]

You read my posts wrong man, ... i am not a hater i am realistic and williams is more juiced than me, i really dont use that much. i don't hate natural trainers, i just don't get WHY there is lots of so called naturals, when they are not natural, see? and if you say im a jelous you are wrong, just realistic.

dude, do you know him personally? why is it so improbably that he could possibly be bigger than you without sauce?

[str8flexed]

Couldn't agree with you more.

No one has proof either way - testing is surely not the end all in telling if someone juiced or not. Also, I don't *think* that there are effetive tests in telling whether someone used HGH or not. Again, I don't know, but I don't think that there is.



Str8flexed - I've read A LOT of your posts, and you are an extremely intelligent guy. You always have some good information and are willing to help. Being a relative new guy around here, I'm not sure if it's really my place to say, but I think that this statement is surrounded with arrogance. IMO, what this is implying is that if you haven't done a bodybuilding show (like yourself), and haven't had "a lot" of exposure to the natural bodybuilding community (like yourself), you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the whole "natural vs. unnatural" thing. That one can't be an expert if it doesn't fit one (or both) of your criteria. That's like saying that a sportswriter who has never played the sport that he/she reports on, has no business commenting on said sport because his opinion carries no weight. Very illogical thing for you to say.

There's a lot of speculation on this thread, but that's all it is - speculation. No one can provide any proof because such proof is hard to come by. I'm going to agree with TNCEKM on this one, and form my opinions based on what I see. Either supplementation, nutrition, and workouts have gotten really really really really REALLY advanced in a short amount of time, or there are some (many?) people out there claiming to be natural and simply don't fit what my definition of what "natural" is (NEVER taking an illegal anabolic substance at the time it was illegal).

Str8flexed - I may have drawn the wrong conclusion from your comments, please let me know if I did. Again, I think that your statement was a very arroganant thing to say, and outright wrong. Just because someone has not participated in the sport of bodybuilding does not mean that their commentary and opinions carry any less weight. Granted, it doesn't mean that these opinions are right, but it does't automatically make them wrong, either.

I'm not trying to be arrogant, i'm trying to be reasonable. If you've never even been around any of this stuff how can you be so certain that you absolutely know someone is juicing? Are there cheaters? I'm sure there are... I know some people have been kicked out of these organizations, but i'm sure the majority are honest.

What grabs me is that if you post pictures of most natty bbers on here you'll either get "that's not that great... I could look like that" or "i have a bro who's much bigger than you blah blah blah"

or if they look awsome they get "dude you are on juice stop lying"

so let me get this straight... either way we suck? That's what i've seen over the years on these forums.

[zcsmith]

I'm not trying to be arrogant, i'm trying to be reasonable. If you've never even been around any of this stuff how can you be so certain that you absolutely know someone is juicing? Are there cheaters? I'm sure there are... I know some people have been kicked out of these organizations, but i'm sure the majority are honest.

What grabs me is that if you post pictures of most natty bbers on here you'll either get "that's not that great... I could look like that" or "i have a bro who's much bigger than you blah blah blah"

or if they look awsome they get "dude you are on juice stop lying"

so let me get this straight... either way we suck? That's what i've seen over the years on these forums.

I agree that being around and in the bodybuilding world gives someone greater visibility as to what's going on. I also see the point that you are trying to make, saying, "...either way we suck?" Granted, there are always some people that have that POV, but I think that it's the minority, I really do. Most people that I come across on these board, when commenting on a picture/physique, are very positive. Sure, you have the asses that want to make negative comments and bring someone down, but you have that in every walk of life.

I really don't think that there's much that you, I, or anyone else can do to change people's perceptions of what "natural" is. We are going to form an opinion on what our eyes tell us. Sure, I've never seen Ronnie Coleman shoot up, and I don't know him, and I've never competed in a Mr. Olympia...but ya know what? I'm going to say that he's NOT natural. I come to this conclusion by LOOKING at the man. I'm sure that you're thinking is along those same lines.

As far as YOU go - I don't know you, I've never talked to you, I myself have never competed on stage, so I go off what what I see, whether it's fair or not, because that's the only thing that I have to form an opinion on. Could you be "unnatural"? Absolutely. Do I think that you are "natural" though? Sure. I have NOTHING to substantiate that except the way you look.

Proof is hard to come by, and the only proof that anyone would ever get is by seeing someone shoot up, or whatever. That's it. Then we can say, in more of a factual way, that "so n so" is NOT natural. If we don't see this "proof" though, I guess that people can think whatever they want to.

Man, I'm done ranting. If anyone reads all that, congratulations are in order.

[FATHER FLEX]

Many of you would be surprised as to how far you can go without the help of AS.

[crazymike]

The BIG point is that neither side can show proof of who is natural and who is not. We all have our own opinions...this does not make us IDIOTS or HATERS!! It just makes us human beings with an opinion.

Does it really matter if these 'naturals' are in fact using AAS? Not really. To me, they have to live with the fact that they are lying and cheating.

Some of you have a warped sense of what cheating really is. I personally use AAS, and some of you call me a cheater! Why? Who exactly am I cheating against? I compete in NPC shows that are NOT tested and 99% of the guys are also using, so who am I cheating? I am merely staying in the game. NOW, if I was to enter a natural show and knowingly was using AAS, then yes I would consider that cheating.

All in all, we could go on forever debating this till we drop dead from stupidity. But why bother, we will never 'solve' the mystery!!

[str8flexed]

The BIG point is that neither side can show proof of who is natural and who is not. We all have our own opinions...this does not make us IDIOTS or HATERS!! It just makes us human beings with an opinion.

Does it really matter if these 'naturals' are in fact using AAS? Not really. To me, they have to live with the fact that they are lying and cheating.

Some of you have a warped sense of what cheating really is. I personally use AAS, and some of you call me a cheater! Why? Who exactly am I cheating against? I compete in NPC shows that are NOT tested and 99% of the guys are also using, so who am I cheating? I am merely staying in the game. NOW, if I was to enter a natural show and knowingly was using AAS, then yes I would consider that cheating.

All in all, we could go on forever debating this till we drop dead from stupidity. But why bother, we will never 'solve' the mystery!!

i don't think you are a cheater at all mike. IMO as long as I have my tested shows where I can compete I don't really give a damn what someone wants to do. Their body not mine.

[triplewhammy]

i don't think you are a cheater at all mike. IMO as long as I have my tested shows where I can compete I don't really give a damn what someone wants to do. Their body not mine.

First off, I want to say I have a TON of respect for you. You don't realize how many people read your articles or your posts and are inspired by you (such as myself). Having said that, I just want to say that YES the definition of 'natural' is very skewed. I've NEVER taken Prohormones, prosteroids, or steroids, nor do I plan on it. Thus in virtually every sense, I consider myself natural. However, do I think I have a distinct advantage over other lifters because I've taken things like 6-OXO and Rebound XT? ABSOLUTELY. Those two supps, combined with the hard work of eating 3-4 cans of tuna a day plus tons of calories (around 3000) has paid off a LOT more than just the food on its own. I would be MUCH smaller if it weren't for those supps. I'm not discrediting my hard work, I'm just being honest with myself.

I think you should also be honest in saying that at least SOME of the bigger natural guys out there are PROBABLY not completely natural.

Again, I respect your opinion, but I know for myself that the hard work, the eating in the middle of the night, the surplus protein, the surplus calories, the working out when you don't feel like it, the cutting and bulking, the tons of water, the 8-10 hrs of sleep, etc. etc. that I PERSONALLY have committed to, will only get me SO FAR.

[str8flexed]

First off, I want to say I have a TON of respect for you. You don't realize how many people read your articles or your posts and are inspired by you (such as myself). Having said that, I just want to say that YES the definition of 'natural' is very skewed. I've NEVER taken Prohormones, prosteroids, or steroids, nor do I plan on it. Thus in virtually every sense, I consider myself natural. However, do I think I have a distinct advantage over other lifters because I've taken things like 6-OXO and Rebound XT? ABSOLUTELY. Those two supps, combined with the hard work of eating 3-4 cans of tuna a day plus tons of calories (around 3000) has paid off a LOT more than just the food on its own. I would be MUCH smaller if it weren't for those supps. I'm not discrediting my hard work, I'm just being honest with myself.

I think you should also be honest in saying that at least SOME of the bigger natural guys out there are PROBABLY not completely natural.

Again, I respect your opinion, but I know for myself that the hard work, the eating in the middle of the night, the surplus protein, the surplus calories, the working out when you don't feel like it, the cutting and bulking, the tons of water, the 8-10 hrs of sleep, etc. etc. that I PERSONALLY have committed to, will only get me SO FAR.

I know there are some natural pros who are probably not natural or who used gear some time ago and are clean now... but it's not fair to point out individuals and say "yup he's definately on juice."

[Tony]

Well i'm a little late to this thread, but here's my $00.02 :

Stan McQuay is a freak. He's HUGE! I've met him twice. He's short, but most successful bodybuilders are...either way he is a large man.

You'd think that after all the years that Str8 and I have been on these boards we would learn to stop babysitting all the idiots on here hahaha. I'll just let you guys argue about things that you can't prove.
Just because someone is big does not mean they use steroids. The human body is capable of some amazing things. And what if they do use steroids? Who cares? It's a victimless crime. Don't be hatin' haha

[my_name_is]

I think those of us who have been around gyms for years and have made friends and aquantances are just as qualified as those who have competed to tell what is natural versus what is pharmaceutical.

Maybe not eveytime, but I have a fair idea of what is natural. Prohormones and the like does not equal natural in my book either.

Pro'hormones'

[ptanimal71]

I get kinda pissed when I see people saying that someone is on roids when they, in reality, HAVE NO F*CKING CLUE if they really are or arent. If you dont know for a fact 100% then dont open your mouth. I personally dont care for prohormones or steroids. I have not nor will I ever concider using steroids. I feel as if Im cheating myself. Steroids are an illegal substance plain and simple. Anyone can get a huge figure without the help of legal substances. It takes SERIOUS dedication but it can be achieved.

And congrats to the natural BB's out there.

[zcsmith]

[QUOTE=ptanimal71] I feel as if Im cheating myself. QUOTE]

SAME reason that I won't consider taking them at any point - I don't give a rats ass what other people think, but I would feel like I'm cheating myself.

[patto12345]

iM 19 try really hard
i use weigh protein
I weigh 150lbs
natural
and bi = 15 inch
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/...l&ppuser=96174

check em out tell me watch ya think

[pump_iron]

you guys are lookin good