Steroid Free Pics

[daveske]

wow, thanks man... I really appreciate that! Keep working hard and you can do it as well! I started at 130 lbs

-Layne

YOU started at 130? jeebuz..
How long have u been at it?
fooooark.. that first foto u look crazy huge. Good luck with getting the pro card.

[wide lats]

You know what i don't understand, people saying they don't use roids when they do, i DO NOT KNOW WTF THEY GET OUT OF THESE COMMENTS, i would never claim otherwise i don't give a flying fok about govorment laws, idealism and other crap, i would not say i'm natural when i am not.

only reason i can think of is if the person is under contract by a supplement company or sponsored, then i could understand the comments are nothing to do with bodybuilding or powerlifting, they because of money and stuff. anyone who is into bbing seriously knows better, personally i could not lie my arse off and i don't know anyone else who lies for money.

WILLIAMS IS NOT NATURAL, HE IS JUICED, END OF DISCUSSION FOR ME I DONT GIVE 2 PARTICULAR TOSSES WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS, YOU ALL ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS JUST MAKE SURE ITS EDUCATED OPINION NOT SOMETHING YOU BEEN TOLD BY WILLIAMS OR HIS SPONSORS.

[jay81]

You know what i don't understand, people saying they don't use roids when they do, i DO NOT KNOW WTF THEY GET OUT OF THESE COMMENTS, i would never claim otherwise i don't give a flying fok about govorment laws, idealism and other crap, i would not say i'm natural when i am not.

only reason i can think of is if the person is under contract by a supplement company or sponsored, then i could understand the comments are nothing to do with bodybuilding or powerlifting, they because of money and stuff. anyone who is into bbing seriously knows better, personally i could not lie my arse off and i don't know anyone else who lies for money.

WILLIAMS IS NOT NATURAL, HE IS JUICED, END OF DISCUSSION FOR ME I DONT GIVE 2 PARTICULAR TOSSES WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS, YOU ALL ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS JUST MAKE SURE ITS EDUCATED OPINION NOT SOMETHING YOU BEEN TOLD BY WILLIAMS OR HIS SPONSORS.

You are an idiot.

[dude544]

AS are class c over here (possession will most likely get you just a caution), so more than half of the gym's spend their time discussing them.. with most looking less than impressive (bloated, spotty, even small).
That's the reason I still like to train at home.

in regards to the actual topic, many people seem to think that just because a person is natural, they'll be looking like them within a few years.
Many people need to realise that they may have to work half a lifetime to achieve such a look. Skip's worked out for many, MANY years on the basics of genetics to achieve his success. He didn't suddenly put on 20-40lbs on a bulk & then 'cut up', he worked his butt off year after year.

Keep your bf % in check year round, be satisfied with smaller changes & you'll achieve great things.. but don't think you'll automatically look cover model good.

[wide lats]

You are an idiot.

could have said why.....

[wide lats]

Why is it that i get called a idiot, almost every time i post, off the same bunch of idiots???

no reasons, no comments, are you looking for a reaction off me or what?????

[DieselFella]

Ulisses Williams is natural.

do you think he would have been allowed to compete in musclemania had he not beed natural? do you really think the guys at musclemania are ****ing stupid enough not to test people for roids?

he is natural.

thank you! people are muy jelous!

[judahpinsker]

could have said why.....

i think you've made it pretty clear why

[Trappy]

Why is it that i get called a idiot, almost every time i post, off the same bunch of idiots???

no reasons, no comments, are you looking for a reaction off me or what?????

Because you have no evidence backing up your claim apart from what you 'think'. There is a BIG difference between thinking and knowing.

[str8flexed]

Why is it that i get called a idiot, almost every time i post, off the same bunch of idiots???

no reasons, no comments, are you looking for a reaction off me or what?????

because you are the epitome of a jealous, insecure hater. I mean seriously... you accuse this guy of juicing? Why? Because he's bigger than you and looks better than you? OH HEAVEN FORBID ANYONE BE NATURAL AND LOOK BETTER THAN YOU... HE MUST BE ON STEROIDS! c'mon man, get a life. I'm willing to take someone's word at face value because I know how far I've been able to come without drugs and I'm only 23 years old. I'm up to 225 lbs, and around a competitive 200 lbs; who knows what could happen if I keep my nutrition & training consistant and stay healthy!?

I don't get guys like you.. you would rather hate on someone behind their back than give them their props.

Sad

[Crossballer]

St8Flex you were tooting your own horn there, but I agree.

GIVE CREDIT WHEN CREDIT IS DUE.

The only way you can get better is to beat them, not discredit them so you don't have to!

St8Flex is a good bodybuilder, but he's nowhere close to being the best. There will always be someone out there better than you! Even Arnold, who was undefeated for years, was finally destroyed by Olivia Sergio.

It just goes to show you that you always need to work hard, and complacency is the killer of teens. Do not be the lion on top of the hill, be the lion that climbs the hill.

Climb it, and give credit and props, instead of defiling and desecrating, POP!

[str8flexed]

to be clear i never said i was the best or implied it

[crazymike]

OK, here is my little 'imput' on the subject. Naturally you CAN look very big and cut. Str8 proves that. But on the flip side, I would say that more than half of the top naturals are NOT all that natural!! Str8 posted up some of the better naturals, and I would bet that they have not been natural all their lives. They probably are now, or at least at time of the show, but not lifetime natural.

Stan Mcquay, Mike O'Hearn, Skip Lacur....all these guys use GH, roids, etc. But they do it to a smaller degree, and cycle the stuff as opposed to being on all year.

Most natural shows do testing, but the testing is flawed. They do polygraph, which CAN be defeated easily. Then they drug test the winners. Well most of the guys will be 'off' of the AAS by then anyway, so there is nothing in the system. Even if they were to to random testing year round, there are ways around that as well. How do you think the Olympics did it for so long?

Bottom line is that the chord stretches both ways. On one side you have people saying that every natural competitor is completely natural and if we question it, then we are 'haters'. On the other hand we have realistic people that know that a lot fo these guys are not so truthful. And the POSSIBILITY of these guys NOT being natural is VERY REAL!!

Now personally I could care less. I use AAS, so if someone does or does not it really does not make a difference in my life. Me being a sceptic on a lot of these guys does not make me a 'hater' or an 'idiot', it makes me realistic.

[ilovemawnie]

OK, here is my little 'imput' on the subject. Naturally you CAN look very big and cut. Str8 proves that. But on the flip side, I would say that more than half of the top naturals are NOT all that natural!! Str8 posted up some of the better naturals, and I would bet that they have not been natural all their lives. They probably are now, or at least at time of the show, but not lifetime natural.

Stan Mcquay, Mike O'Hearn, Skip Lacur....all these guys use GH, roids, etc. But they do it to a smaller degree, and cycle the stuff as opposed to being on all year.

Most natural shows do testing, but the testing is flawed. They do polygraph, which CAN be defeated easily. Then they drug test the winners. Well most of the guys will be 'off' of the AAS by then anyway, so there is nothing in the system. Even if they were to to random testing year round, there are ways around that as well. How do you think the Olympics did it for so long?

Bottom line is that the chord stretches both ways. On one side you have people saying that every natural competitor is completely natural and if we question it, then we are 'haters'. On the other hand we have realistic people that know that a lot fo these guys are not so truthful. And the POSSIBILITY of these guys NOT being natural is VERY REAL!!

Now personally I could care less. I use AAS, so if someone does or does not it really does not make a difference in my life. Me being a sceptic on a lot of these guys does not make me a 'hater' or an 'idiot', it makes me realistic.

good post mike, that brought a tear to my eye.....you buff bastard!

[str8flexed]

OK, here is my little 'imput' on the subject. Naturally you CAN look very big and cut. Str8 proves that. But on the flip side, I would say that more than half of the top naturals are NOT all that natural!! Str8 posted up some of the better naturals, and I would bet that they have not been natural all their lives. They probably are now, or at least at time of the show, but not lifetime natural.

Stan Mcquay, Mike O'Hearn, Skip Lacur....all these guys use GH, roids, etc. But they do it to a smaller degree, and cycle the stuff as opposed to being on all year.

Most natural shows do testing, but the testing is flawed. They do polygraph, which CAN be defeated easily. Then they drug test the winners. Well most of the guys will be 'off' of the AAS by then anyway, so there is nothing in the system. Even if they were to to random testing year round, there are ways around that as well. How do you think the Olympics did it for so long?

Bottom line is that the chord stretches both ways. On one side you have people saying that every natural competitor is completely natural and if we question it, then we are 'haters'. On the other hand we have realistic people that know that a lot fo these guys are not so truthful. And the POSSIBILITY of these guys NOT being natural is VERY REAL!!

Now personally I could care less. I use AAS, so if someone does or does not it really does not make a difference in my life. Me being a sceptic on a lot of these guys does not make me a 'hater' or an 'idiot', it makes me realistic.

Mike this is all just speculation. You have no proof of any of this. thank you for the props but come on bro. Half of them aren't natural? I've been around natural bodybuilding probably more than just about anyone on this board and I can tell you most divisions are very good at finding the cheaters.

[CaGray88]

You know what i don't understand, people saying they don't use roids when they do, i DO NOT KNOW WTF THEY GET OUT OF THESE COMMENTS, i would never claim otherwise i don't give a flying fok about govorment laws, idealism and other crap, i would not say i'm natural when i am not.

only reason i can think of is if the person is under contract by a supplement company or sponsored, then i could understand the comments are nothing to do with bodybuilding or powerlifting, they because of money and stuff. anyone who is into bbing seriously knows better, personally i could not lie my arse off and i don't know anyone else who lies for money.

WILLIAMS IS NOT NATURAL, HE IS JUICED, END OF DISCUSSION FOR ME I DONT GIVE 2 PARTICULAR TOSSES WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS, YOU ALL ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS JUST MAKE SURE ITS EDUCATED OPINION NOT SOMETHING YOU BEEN TOLD BY WILLIAMS OR HIS SPONSORS.

Your a dumbass. I don't need to give a reason....it's in your post.

[TNCEKM]

....Now personally I could care less. I use AAS, so if someone does or does not it really does not make a difference in my life. Me being a sceptic on a lot of these guys does not make me a 'hater' or an 'idiot', it makes me realistic.

Exactly where I was coming from

I just don't see how people can think that the naturals of 20yrs ago are SOOOOOOOO much smaller than todays b/c of nutrition and training differences--it's just illogical.

But, I know where they are coming from. A year ago or so, I was trying to convnince myself that I could get huge naturally, too. I realized I can get big and have a great physique, but even with coleman-like genetics, you're not going to look like skip lacour, etc, without a little anabolic help.

[str8flexed]

lol, you don't know that! This is all conjecture and speculation. It is your opinion... that does not make it truth. Once again, there is one person in this thread who has had a lot of exposure to the natural bodybuilding community. I doubt many of you besides mike have even done a show. But you are still experts right?

[TNCEKM]

.....It is your opinion.....

Although you believe opposite what I do, it's your opinion as well considering the methods of detection are ineffective; therefore, despite the fact that it's considered a "natural" circuit, you have just as little proof to prove your point as I do to prove mine.

I just don't see how the level of competitor could have raised so much on the "natural" level (the non-natural increase in size is easy to understand--mostly just more drugs = bigger bbers) in such a short time.

Its entirely possible I could be wrong...I understand that. I just believe that it's improbable considering the drastic improvement in the top level natural guys.

The top level naturals are looking like top-ranked amateurs of 25yrs ago! (Guys who were on some decent cycles!)

[TheOak]

stop being a hater. I swear I'm tired anytime that someone has a physique that is great he's automatically on the sauce. GIVE ME A BREAK! You guys are so freaking insecure. Has it ever occured to you that maybe someone works harder than you and just has a better physique than you. I say you all need to stop being haters. You don't know that man. You don't know how hard he worked. The testing in the IFBB is a joke, but in many natural federations they take it very seriously.

Whoa, calm down man! I was just saying that testing doesn't automatically prove that some 1 is clean, like the guy to who's post I replied to seems to think.
But I guess I should have just spelled it out to make sure the right message gets through, oh well.

[25nj]

Hey rabidwolverine, check out antoine on this forum. He looks really big and ripped, and as far as i can tell he is all natural.

[TNCEKM]

Hey rabidwolverine, check out antoine on this forum. He looks really big and ripped, and as far as i can tell he is all natural.

Yeah, he is....his legs are great! There are plenty of great natural BBers. Nobody is saying there aren't. But, there are some who use the word natural (when describing themselves) as if they consulted a lawyer first

[BodySculpting]

David Spade uses roids.

[qazer]

You guys are pathetic, honestly. Just because most of you don't have the dedication and will to succeed beyond potential doesn't mean that other people can't too.
Roids are the main object these unmotivated tools use to back up their arguments or use as proof. This is only an excuse to not train hard, "If I'm not taking roids, there's no point in training hard and giving up all I've got, because I can't get big without roids and I'm scared of overtraining, and these genetics are holding me back, rather, I'll train like everyone else does and accuse anyone over 200 pounds a juicer".
'Genetics, genetics', thats all I read, 'genetics are the key to success'; I think not. Take at look at Abdominator's first picture, you'd presume someone that skinny will never put on weight because of 'genetics'. Genetics are your base/foundation, where you choose to go from there is up to you, its all in your mind. Overtraining is another issue too. Most people use this as an excuse to not train hard. In reality, you are probably undertraining. If you're nutrition and sleep is right, it is very hard to overtrain, and thus this another obstacle people put in their way.
You people (not all) make it seem that its impossible to get big without roids or 'good genetics', unfortunately this is the mentallity holding you back from breaking past your potential. Those naturals you see up there don't hold up barriers or obstacles, they break through them.
Their secret is dedication, motivation and will, something you people lack.
To Layne and Abdominator, don't waste your time trying to explain to these undertrained and misinformed idiots (not refering to everyone).

[wide lats]

i think you've made it pretty clear why

to you maybe, i'm still confused....... LOL.

[wide lats]

because you are the epitome of a jealous, insecure hater. I mean seriously... you accuse this guy of juicing? Why? Because he's bigger than you and looks better than you? OH HEAVEN FORBID ANYONE BE NATURAL AND LOOK BETTER THAN YOU... HE MUST BE ON STEROIDS! c'mon man, get a life. I'm willing to take someone's word at face value because I know how far I've been able to come without drugs and I'm only 23 years old. I'm up to 225 lbs, and around a competitive 200 lbs; who knows what could happen if I keep my nutrition & training consistant and stay healthy!?

I don't get guys like you.. you would rather hate on someone behind their back than give them their props.

Sad

You read my posts wrong man, ... i am not a hater i am realistic and williams is more juiced than me, i really dont use that much. i don't hate natural trainers, i just don't get WHY there is lots of so called naturals, when they are not natural, see? and if you say im a jelous you are wrong, just realistic.

[wide lats]

OK, here is my little 'imput' on the subject. Naturally you CAN look very big and cut. Str8 proves that. But on the flip side, I would say that more than half of the top naturals are NOT all that natural!! Str8 posted up some of the better naturals, and I would bet that they have not been natural all their lives. They probably are now, or at least at time of the show, but not lifetime natural.

Stan Mcquay, Mike O'Hearn, Skip Lacur....all these guys use GH, roids, etc. But they do it to a smaller degree, and cycle the stuff as opposed to being on all year.

Most natural shows do testing, but the testing is flawed. They do polygraph, which CAN be defeated easily. Then they drug test the winners. Well most of the guys will be 'off' of the AAS by then anyway, so there is nothing in the system. Even if they were to to random testing year round, there are ways around that as well. How do you think the Olympics did it for so long?

Bottom line is that the chord stretches both ways. On one side you have people saying that every natural competitor is completely natural and if we question it, then we are 'haters'. On the other hand we have realistic people that know that a lot fo these guys are not so truthful. And the POSSIBILITY of these guys NOT being natural is VERY REAL!!

Now personally I could care less. I use AAS, so if someone does or does not it really does not make a difference in my life. Me being a sceptic on a lot of these guys does not make me a 'hater' or an 'idiot', it makes me realistic.

i understand mikes post completley, coz its realistic and honest. Unlike williams he dont say hes natural when he isnt. i personally know natural mr.U.K. as a good mate, i know what a juicer looks like and what is achievable naturally, whoever says different can bring it on... Lets discuss this...

[wide lats]

Exactly where I was coming from

I just don't see how people can think that the naturals of 20yrs ago are SOOOOOOOO much smaller than todays b/c of nutrition and training differences--it's just illogical.

But, I know where they are coming from. A year ago or so, I was trying to convnince myself that I could get huge naturally, too. I realized I can get big and have a great physique, but even with coleman-like genetics, you're not going to look like skip lacour, etc, without a little anabolic help.

exactly

some people really do think coleman is natural :/ , again they must be new to lifting or just take everything they read as gospel truth.

at the end of the day, i was on about williams here, and i do not believe he is natural - if you do them thats you opinion. i know better

[zcsmith]

Although you believe opposite what I do, it's your opinion as well considering the methods of detection are ineffective; therefore, despite the fact that it's considered a "natural" circuit, you have just as little proof to prove your point as I do to prove mine.

I just don't see how the level of competitor could have raised so much on the "natural" level (the non-natural increase in size is easy to understand--mostly just more drugs = bigger bbers) in such a short time.

Its entirely possible I could be wrong...I understand that. I just believe that it's improbable considering the drastic improvement in the top level natural guys.

The top level naturals are looking like top-ranked amateurs of 25yrs ago! (Guys who were on some decent cycles!)

Couldn't agree with you more.

No one has proof either way - testing is surely not the end all in telling if someone juiced or not. Also, I don't *think* that there are effetive tests in telling whether someone used HGH or not. Again, I don't know, but I don't think that there is.

there is one person in this thread who has had a lot of exposure to the natural bodybuilding community. I doubt many of you besides mike have even done a show. But you are still experts right?

Str8flexed - I've read A LOT of your posts, and you are an extremely intelligent guy. You always have some good information and are willing to help. Being a relative new guy around here, I'm not sure if it's really my place to say, but I think that this statement is surrounded with arrogance. IMO, what this is implying is that if you haven't done a bodybuilding show (like yourself), and haven't had "a lot" of exposure to the natural bodybuilding community (like yourself), you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the whole "natural vs. unnatural" thing. That one can't be an expert if it doesn't fit one (or both) of your criteria. That's like saying that a sportswriter who has never played the sport that he/she reports on, has no business commenting on said sport because his opinion carries no weight. Very illogical thing for you to say.

There's a lot of speculation on this thread, but that's all it is - speculation. No one can provide any proof because such proof is hard to come by. I'm going to agree with TNCEKM on this one, and form my opinions based on what I see. Either supplementation, nutrition, and workouts have gotten really really really really REALLY advanced in a short amount of time, or there are some (many?) people out there claiming to be natural and simply don't fit what my definition of what "natural" is (NEVER taking an illegal anabolic substance at the time it was illegal).

Str8flexed - I may have drawn the wrong conclusion from your comments, please let me know if I did. Again, I think that your statement was a very arroganant thing to say, and outright wrong. Just because someone has not participated in the sport of bodybuilding does not mean that their commentary and opinions carry any less weight. Granted, it doesn't mean that these opinions are right, but it does't automatically make them wrong, either.

[jay81]

i understand mikes post completley, coz its realistic and honest. Unlike williams he dont say hes natural when he isnt. i personally know natural mr.U.K. as a good mate, i know what a juicer looks like and what is achievable naturally, whoever says different can bring it on... Lets discuss this...

So you know the genetic limit of every guy there is on this planet?