I will probably get some criticism for this, but here goes. I welcome any and all opinions and comments:
The greatest thing about bodybuilding is that it is a sport based on the aesthetic tastes of its competitors, fans and judges. If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be. People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.
There is no way to say one bodybuilder is 'better' than another, because the term 'better' is open to personal interpretation. If we admit that some are better than others then we must also admit that there somewhere is a 'best' to serve as a standard to which we must compare all. But if this were the case then we would never have Mr. O's as varied as Ronnie, Zane, Dorian, and Dickerson.
Simply, a bodybuilder must put together an aesthetic package that he thinks is the best, and hope that the judges agree. This is the artistic side of bodybuilding. When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives. Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst. It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.
Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does. For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.
Some may say: MuscleTech rigged it.
My reply is that Muscle Tech has little or nothing to gain from rigging the Olympia. How many BBers on this forum will buy a product simply because Mr. O attaches his name to it? My guess would be very few. Most people buy what works best for them regardless of who happens to throw their name behind it. Does MuscleTech really think the 'Mass Stack' is going to fly off the shelves simply because Jay won another Olympia? Most people that walk into GNC don't even know who Jay is. For MuscleTech, paying off the IFBB would probably turn out to be a money-losing affair, with expenses from the payoff itself not even recouped by product sales.
If you read this far, thanks a lot!
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Thread: In defense of Jay and the IFBB
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10-04-2007, 03:40 AM #1
In defense of Jay and the IFBB
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10-04-2007, 03:41 AM #2
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10-04-2007, 03:48 AM #3
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10-04-2007, 04:00 AM #4
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10-04-2007, 04:26 AM #5
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10-04-2007, 04:43 AM #6
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Muscle tech would have a lot to gain. Maybe some people on this forum will be smart enough to not buy the product just because of the packaging of the new Mr O on it but people outside of the internet that read the magazines and advertising may have a different view. Especially ones that have had only little or no experience at gym. IMO I dont think it was rigged but I was making as point lol.
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10-04-2007, 05:06 AM #7
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Definately.. the whole 'this is the muscle stack that won the Olympia'.. i t must do something, look at the teen section with threads like 'so is this a good stack - celltech hardcore, nitrotech hardcore, creakic, gakic, etc??'
these kid are forgetting the fundamentals of building a good body and relying heavily on what 'muscletech' tell you is good!IG: waldronconstruction
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10-04-2007, 05:22 AM #8
The bottom line if MT had some influence in the decision ahead of time - they had really hoped Jay would be at his best for contest so there couldn't be much disagreement.
Unfortunately for Jay and MT, this contest was very opinionated with the vast majority of people saying Vic and Wolf looked the best that day. Even alot of Jay fans feel he was way off.
We don't know if stuff is going on on the side between IFBB and MT, but one thing for sure, if Jay has to win again next year with the company he better have the conditioning down very well. He obviously cannot change his genetics and structure, but the conditioning needs to improve.
Based on peoples opinions on these baords, if another Olympia goes by with such controversial results, the fan base will be definately be smaller in numbers. And that is something neither the IFBB nor MT(maybe MT) can afford.Keymaster of platinum accounts
DIRECT WORDS FROM THE CEO/HEAD CHEESE....
-Mods cannot do name changes
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In other words if you do not like what you originally called yourself, do not take responsibility of what you wanted to at one point type for the world to see, or desperately want green boxes - YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK.
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10-04-2007, 06:03 AM #9
1. Dennis Wolf does not have the ideal physique.
2. Jay doesn't have a 50" waist.
3. Funny how no one bitched about Lee Priest getting screwed in every contest, or Flex Wheeler ever being screwed, or Kevin Levrone being screwed....
4. The fridge **** is really getting old. Take my word; I'm a retailer - in addition to selling audio and visual product, I also sell kitchen and laundry appliances. Last I checked, a fridge is a great big rectangular thing, often weighing far less than 270lb - it consists mostly of a freezing compartment and a refridgerating compartment, covered by doors. The fridge is plugged into a wall socket supplying power to the unit, so that it can operate in it's intended manner. Just a guess - but I would have to assume none of the above applies to Jay Cutler.
5. If you feel qualified to the point where you can state categorically that the majority of a sample of 50 people on this board would select Dennis Wolf as having the ideal physique - we're talking ideal, according to the original post too by the way, and not just the physiques presented at this years Olympia - then nicktronic would be more than qualified to state that not everyone walking into a GNC would know who Cutler is.
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10-04-2007, 07:19 AM #10
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10-04-2007, 07:43 AM #11
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10-04-2007, 07:52 AM #12
So if my physique is more desirable to the judges (because say they pick a load of judges that don't like the really big/conditioned guys, but more 'normal' looking bodybuilders) I can fairly win Mr Olympia?
Savage.Interested in investing in militarizing poultry? Based in our Southernmost continent, no local taxes, no laws to worry about, guaranteed return! PM for further details
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10-04-2007, 08:11 AM #13
That's pure BULL****! All the hours of lifting in the gym is what makes it a sport! You work your ASS off just to look your best on stage!
You must have never stepted on stage, otherwise you would know that bodybuilding is in fact a sport and it's a tough one to boot!"The Man of The Hour, The Man with The Power, Too Sweet To be Sour!!!" (Superstar Billy Grham)
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10-04-2007, 08:12 AM #14
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10-04-2007, 08:13 AM #15
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10-04-2007, 08:52 AM #16
TONS of people bitched about flex, priest and levrone getting screwed. Tons still do.
Great comeback on the fridge thing - always good to dispel sarcastic humor with a very literal interpretation and rebuttal - does not in any way make you look incompetent.
Dennis Wolfe, by bodybuilding standards, is pretty damn close to the 'ideal physique'
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10-04-2007, 09:00 AM #17
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10-04-2007, 09:04 AM #18
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10-04-2007, 09:11 AM #19
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i am already over it. Jay won the show, next year he won't. Victor will win next year even if he doesn't improve at all. with Ronnie gone there is a lot more opportunity for other guys to get in the mix on the top spots. that will lead to more callouts with jay and finally a realization that there are better bbers out there.
huntington beach, CA.
madeinaustralia-
victor ahead slightly???....like when i first had sex i only "slightly" prematurly ejaculated
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10-04-2007, 09:15 AM #20
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10-04-2007, 09:17 AM #21
theres corruption and fixing in major sports.. look at what happend in the NBA.. bodybuilding is a very underground sport that doesnt have anyone to regulate or supervise what goes on..
the ifbb is run by the magazines.. supplement companys support the magazines.. if you dont think there is a connection, then you need to get a clue about how things work..
cutler is being payed big bucks to be mr olympia, and to show up on MT's adds.. if he lost his title, that would F things up.. i was in organized crime investigations for over 2 years.. i know how this **** works.. i would bet my familys life that if an investigation was done on the ifbb,, you would find plenty of "funds" going were they shouldnt be.. you have no idea how many companys get caught doing illegal **** to make an extra buck.. you see it in the news everyday, and if you think the ifbb is an ethicaly run buisness then your a fool
just an example, how many amatures win their pro card, WITHOUT having a supplement contract first?
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10-04-2007, 09:37 AM #22
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10-04-2007, 09:45 AM #23
Indeed bodybuilding is a subjective sport...but when you get to the competitive side of it, as in the Mr O contest or any other contest, there are guidelines and definitions laid out on what the CRITERIA is to be met in order to be 1st place.
It is why there is a symmetry round, posing round, muscularity round, etc.
What should constitute a 1st place finish at the O?
I would think whoever has the best combination of mass, symmetry, conditioning, and posing ability (able to show their physique off to their best advantage) is the one who should place 1st.
So in short, whoever displays the BEST OVERALL physique on stage should win. It's that simple.
In regards to this year's Mr O., Jay did was harshly lacking in conditioning. For that he should of been deducted points...not rewarded points. That is why people are upset and this year's Mr O first place placing was the biggest crock of ****.
Hopefully after reading the above, the Jay nut-huggers can finally see the light of what really took place at the '07 Olympia.
When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives. Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst. It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.
The judges ignored the fact that Jay was off and rewarded him for it. Fuuking sad.
Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does. For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.================================
Bodybuild for yourself, nobody else!
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10-04-2007, 09:55 AM #24
I read the whole thing and I respect your opinion. sound sincere. but I do believe you need some "reality" check. big time.
P.S) if the judge gave the Sandow to a true "winner" (as you stated), you wouldn't even need to post "In defense of Jay and the IFBB" in the first place.Last edited by EarlyBirdHustle; 10-04-2007 at 10:00 AM.
"I could've never done it without y'all. thank you all for coming out. please, please, come out next year.... even though I'm not gonna be on the stage, I'm going be here, be right there with y'all, cheering these guys on...
...I've never thought I could do it. Just remember one thing. God has a plan for each and everyone of us. All you have to do... all you have to do... is to keep the faith...and accept your calling."
- Ronnie Coleman, The G.O.A.T.
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10-04-2007, 10:29 AM #25
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They don't have to flex everything head to toe.
There would still be people saying Victor got robbed if Wolf won, and ppl saying Wolf got robbed if Vic won, and still others that thought Ronnie won(a few delusional ones, yes reading youtube comments).Last edited by stealth_swimmer; 10-04-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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10-04-2007, 10:38 AM #26
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It's not about how much you look like you can bench, it's about how much you can bench.
Anyone saying the opposite is an admirer of Peter Andre.
[img]http://rassionmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/peter_andre.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000664C7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/peter_andre.jpg[/img]
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10-04-2007, 10:47 AM #27
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10-04-2007, 10:49 AM #28
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10-04-2007, 11:06 AM #29
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10-04-2007, 11:10 AM #30
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It's not about how much you look like you can bench, it's about how much you can bench.
Anyone saying the opposite is an admirer of Peter Andre.
[img]http://rassionmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/peter_andre.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000664C7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/peter_andre.jpg[/img]
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