In defense of Jay and the IFBB

[nicktronic]

I will probably get some criticism for this, but here goes. I welcome any and all opinions and comments:

The greatest thing about bodybuilding is that it is a sport based on the aesthetic tastes of its competitors, fans and judges. If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be. People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.

There is no way to say one bodybuilder is 'better' than another, because the term 'better' is open to personal interpretation. If we admit that some are better than others then we must also admit that there somewhere is a 'best' to serve as a standard to which we must compare all. But if this were the case then we would never have Mr. O's as varied as Ronnie, Zane, Dorian, and Dickerson.

Simply, a bodybuilder must put together an aesthetic package that he thinks is the best, and hope that the judges agree. This is the artistic side of bodybuilding. When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives. Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst. It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.

Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does. For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.

Some may say: MuscleTech rigged it.
My reply is that Muscle Tech has little or nothing to gain from rigging the Olympia. How many BBers on this forum will buy a product simply because Mr. O attaches his name to it? My guess would be very few. Most people buy what works best for them regardless of who happens to throw their name behind it. Does MuscleTech really think the 'Mass Stack' is going to fly off the shelves simply because Jay won another Olympia? Most people that walk into GNC don't even know who Jay is. For MuscleTech, paying off the IFBB would probably turn out to be a money-losing affair, with expenses from the payoff itself not even recouped by product sales.

If you read this far, thanks a lot!

[wala]

you on glue?

[Tyrbolift]

So the majority of judges prefer the lumpy look of 10 pounds of **** stuffed in a 9 pound bag.

Good for them.

[antish]

I will probably get some criticism for this, but here goes. I welcome any and all opinions and comments:

The greatest thing about bodybuilding is that it is a sport based on the aesthetic tastes of its competitors, fans and judges.]

nope only the so-called judges and sponsors

If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be.

Majority here will say dennis wolf.

People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.

There is no way to say one bodybuilder is 'better' than another, because the term 'better' is open to personal interpretation.
yeah but when you put a guy with a 30" waist next to a 50" waist, the choice becomes evident.

If we admit that some are better than others then we must also admit that there somewhere is a 'best' to serve as a standard to which we must compare all. B

you can only compare them side by side

ut if this were the case then we would never have Mr. O's as varied as Ronnie, Zane, Dorian, and Dickerson.



Simply, a bodybuilder must put together an aesthetic package that he thinks is the best, and hope that the judges agree.

and hope he does not get screwed , you mean.


This is the artistic side of bodybuilding. When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives.
you forgot the sponsors + it's all about teh $$$


Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst.
yes there is...muscle size ,definition and shape+ conditioning.


It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.
and sponsors

Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does.

yeah he knew he had the waist of a champion to bag it.
he did not hope for anything, he's contracted for 3 O's.


For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.
Maybe they all bought brand new maytag fridges?


Some may say: MuscleTech rigged it.
My reply is that Muscle Tech has little or nothing to gain from rigging the Olympia.

Gwahahaha.that made me lol.Muscletech does not care about increasing your muscle size by 400 x .It only cares about the $$$

How many BBers on this forum will buy a product simply because Mr. O attaches his name to it? My guess would be very few.
bodybuilders few.but you cannot imagine the number of teens who'll buy it.

Most people buy what works best for them regardless of who happens to throw their name behind it. Does MuscleTech really think the 'Mass Stack' is going to fly off the shelves simply because Jay won another Olympia? Most people that walk into GNC don't even know who Jay is.

Come on, they do.


For MuscleTech, paying off the IFBB would probably turn out to be a money-losing affair, with expenses from the payoff itself not even recouped by product sales.



If you read this far, thanks a lot!

Sorry at my reply but we do not live in a perfect world.It's all about the $$$

[jules_d1]

Some may say: MuscleTech rigged it.
My reply is that Muscle Tech has little or nothing to gain from rigging the Olympia. How many BBers on this forum will buy a product simply because Mr. O attaches his name to it? My guess would be very few. Most people buy what works best for them regardless of who happens to throw their name behind it. Does MuscleTech really think the 'Mass Stack' is going to fly off the shelves simply because Jay won another Olympia? Most people that walk into GNC don't even know who Jay is. For MuscleTech, paying off the IFBB would probably turn out to be a money-losing affair, with expenses from the payoff itself not even recouped by product sales.

I dont think the contest was rigged but I dont agree with this part. Of course you are going to sell a hell of a lot more products if the "best" bb'er in the world is "taking" your stuff. Do you think BSN would be where it is today if Ronnie wasn't their main guy?

[Dallas_15]

Muscle tech would have a lot to gain. Maybe some people on this forum will be smart enough to not buy the product just because of the packaging of the new Mr O on it but people outside of the internet that read the magazines and advertising may have a different view. Especially ones that have had only little or no experience at gym. IMO I dont think it was rigged but I was making as point lol.

[wala]

I dont think the contest was rigged but I dont agree with this part. Of course you are going to sell a hell of a lot more products if the "best" bb'er in the world is "taking" your stuff. Do you think BSN would be where it is today if Ronnie wasn't their main guy?

Definately.. the whole 'this is the muscle stack that won the Olympia'.. i t must do something, look at the teen section with threads like 'so is this a good stack - celltech hardcore, nitrotech hardcore, creakic, gakic, etc??'

these kid are forgetting the fundamentals of building a good body and relying heavily on what 'muscletech' tell you is good!

[LUKEDEICHER]

The bottom line if MT had some influence in the decision ahead of time - they had really hoped Jay would be at his best for contest so there couldn't be much disagreement.

Unfortunately for Jay and MT, this contest was very opinionated with the vast majority of people saying Vic and Wolf looked the best that day. Even alot of Jay fans feel he was way off.

We don't know if stuff is going on on the side between IFBB and MT, but one thing for sure, if Jay has to win again next year with the company he better have the conditioning down very well. He obviously cannot change his genetics and structure, but the conditioning needs to improve.

Based on peoples opinions on these baords, if another Olympia goes by with such controversial results, the fan base will be definately be smaller in numbers. And that is something neither the IFBB nor MT(maybe MT) can afford.

[Dr CROHN]

Sorry at my reply but we do not live in a perfect world.It's all about the $$$

1. Dennis Wolf does not have the ideal physique.
2. Jay doesn't have a 50" waist.
3. Funny how no one bitched about Lee Priest getting screwed in every contest, or Flex Wheeler ever being screwed, or Kevin Levrone being screwed....
4. The fridge **** is really getting old. Take my word; I'm a retailer - in addition to selling audio and visual product, I also sell kitchen and laundry appliances. Last I checked, a fridge is a great big rectangular thing, often weighing far less than 270lb - it consists mostly of a freezing compartment and a refridgerating compartment, covered by doors. The fridge is plugged into a wall socket supplying power to the unit, so that it can operate in it's intended manner. Just a guess - but I would have to assume none of the above applies to Jay Cutler.
5. If you feel qualified to the point where you can state categorically that the majority of a sample of 50 people on this board would select Dennis Wolf as having the ideal physique - we're talking ideal, according to the original post too by the way, and not just the physiques presented at this years Olympia - then nicktronic would be more than qualified to state that not everyone walking into a GNC would know who Cutler is.

[adonis verdader]

If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be. People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.

This is why bbing is by no means a sport, only a beauty contest with mankinis and fake tans.

[stealth_swimmer]

This is why bbing is by no means a sport, only a beauty contest with mankinis and fake tans.

[Duckenheimer]

So if my physique is more desirable to the judges (because say they pick a load of judges that don't like the really big/conditioned guys, but more 'normal' looking bodybuilders) I can fairly win Mr Olympia?

Savage.

[themanonwheels]

This is why bbing is by no means a sport, only a beauty contest with mankinis and fake tans.

That's pure BULL****! All the hours of lifting in the gym is what makes it a sport! You work your ASS off just to look your best on stage!

You must have never stepted on stage, otherwise you would know that bodybuilding is in fact a sport and it's a tough one to boot!

[tony404]

Lee Haney was contracted with twin labs not weider when he won all mr o's.
Your right most people dont know and dont give a crap who the Mr O is. I like nitro tech not because who is in the ads, I like it because it tastes good.

[tony404]

That's pure BULL****! All the hours of lifting in the gym is what makes it a sport! You work your ASS off just to look your best on stage!

You must have never stepted on stage, otherwise you would know that bodybuilding is in fact a sport and it's a tough one to boot!

Dude its not a sport, its a big beauty contest. Thats why unexplained wins happen all the time.In real sports its very cut and dry.Also models spent hours in the gym does that make modeling a sport?

[OldUser982]

1. Dennis Wolf does not have the ideal physique.
2. Jay doesn't have a 50" waist.
3. Funny how no one bitched about Lee Priest getting screwed in every contest, or Flex Wheeler ever being screwed, or Kevin Levrone being screwed....
4. The fridge **** is really getting old. Take my word; I'm a retailer - in addition to selling audio and visual product, I also sell kitchen and laundry appliances. Last I checked, a fridge is a great big rectangular thing, often weighing far less than 270lb - it consists mostly of a freezing compartment and a refridgerating compartment, covered by doors. The fridge is plugged into a wall socket supplying power to the unit, so that it can operate in it's intended manner. Just a guess - but I would have to assume none of the above applies to Jay Cutler.
5. If you feel qualified to the point where you can state categorically that the majority of a sample of 50 people on this board would select Dennis Wolf as having the ideal physique - we're talking ideal, according to the original post too by the way, and not just the physiques presented at this years Olympia - then nicktronic would be more than qualified to state that not everyone walking into a GNC would know who Cutler is.

TONS of people bitched about flex, priest and levrone getting screwed. Tons still do.
Great comeback on the fridge thing - always good to dispel sarcastic humor with a very literal interpretation and rebuttal - does not in any way make you look incompetent.
Dennis Wolfe, by bodybuilding standards, is pretty damn close to the 'ideal physique'

[Iceman1981]

I will probably get some criticism for this, but here goes. I welcome any and all opinions and comments:

The greatest thing about bodybuilding is that it is a sport based on the aesthetic tastes of its competitors, fans and judges. If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be. People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.

There is no way to say one bodybuilder is 'better' than another, because the term 'better' is open to personal interpretation. If we admit that some are better than others then we must also admit that there somewhere is a 'best' to serve as a standard to which we must compare all. But if this were the case then we would never have Mr. O's as varied as Ronnie, Zane, Dorian, and Dickerson.

Simply, a bodybuilder must put together an aesthetic package that he thinks is the best, and hope that the judges agree. This is the artistic side of bodybuilding. When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives. Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst. It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.

Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does. For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.

Some may say: MuscleTech rigged it.
My reply is that Muscle Tech has little or nothing to gain from rigging the Olympia. How many BBers on this forum will buy a product simply because Mr. O attaches his name to it? My guess would be very few. Most people buy what works best for them regardless of who happens to throw their name behind it. Does MuscleTech really think the 'Mass Stack' is going to fly off the shelves simply because Jay won another Olympia? Most people that walk into GNC don't even know who Jay is. For MuscleTech, paying off the IFBB would probably turn out to be a money-losing affair, with expenses from the payoff itself not even recouped by product sales.

If you read this far, thanks a lot!

I respect your opinion, but that's why we have "Criteria". This was made to determine a winner for every bodybuilding contest. Simply, Victor met the "Criteria" better than Jay, Period. End of thread.

[Duckenheimer]

1. Dennis Wolf does not have the ideal physique.
2. Jay doesn't have a 50" waist.
3. Funny how no one bitched about Lee Priest getting screwed in every contest, or Flex Wheeler ever being screwed, or Kevin Levrone being screwed....
4. The fridge **** is really getting old. Take my word; I'm a retailer - in addition to selling audio and visual product, I also sell kitchen and laundry appliances. Last I checked, a fridge is a great big rectangular thing, often weighing far less than 270lb - it consists mostly of a freezing compartment and a refridgerating compartment, covered by doors. The fridge is plugged into a wall socket supplying power to the unit, so that it can operate in it's intended manner. Just a guess - but I would have to assume none of the above applies to Jay Cutler.
5. If you feel qualified to the point where you can state categorically that the majority of a sample of 50 people on this board would select Dennis Wolf as having the ideal physique - we're talking ideal, according to the original post too by the way, and not just the physiques presented at this years Olympia - then nicktronic would be more than qualified to state that not everyone walking into a GNC would know who Cutler is.

1: I'd take it. And for many people he is.
2: I haven't measured it but it's huge and unnappealing.
3: HUH???????
4: (?)
5: For some reason I can't finish reading this sentence no matter how many times I try, so I won't argue it.

[[EM1]Bobby]

i am already over it. Jay won the show, next year he won't. Victor will win next year even if he doesn't improve at all. with Ronnie gone there is a lot more opportunity for other guys to get in the mix on the top spots. that will lead to more callouts with jay and finally a realization that there are better bbers out there.

[Tyrbolift]

i am already over it. Jay won the show, next year he won't. Victor will win next year even if he doesn't improve at all. with Ronnie gone there is a lot more opportunity for other guys to get in the mix on the top spots. that will lead to more callouts with jay and finally a realization that there are better bbers out there.

I agree. Jay won and is Mr. Olympia.

It's just that the title doesn't mean much anymore.

[bxbombers]

theres corruption and fixing in major sports.. look at what happend in the NBA.. bodybuilding is a very underground sport that doesnt have anyone to regulate or supervise what goes on..

the ifbb is run by the magazines.. supplement companys support the magazines.. if you dont think there is a connection, then you need to get a clue about how things work..

cutler is being payed big bucks to be mr olympia, and to show up on MT's adds.. if he lost his title, that would F things up.. i was in organized crime investigations for over 2 years.. i know how this **** works.. i would bet my familys life that if an investigation was done on the ifbb,, you would find plenty of "funds" going were they shouldnt be.. you have no idea how many companys get caught doing illegal **** to make an extra buck.. you see it in the news everyday, and if you think the ifbb is an ethicaly run buisness then your a fool

just an example, how many amatures win their pro card, WITHOUT having a supplement contract first?

[adonis verdader]

That's pure BULL****! All the hours of lifting in the gym is what makes it a sport! You work your ASS off just to look your best on stage!

Hard work is not a sport. Lots of peope work very hard in the gym. That doesn't make them athletes.

[Hardcore Natural]

The greatest thing about bodybuilding is that it is a sport based on the aesthetic tastes of its competitors, fans and judges. If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be. People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.

Indeed bodybuilding is a subjective sport...but when you get to the competitive side of it, as in the Mr O contest or any other contest, there are guidelines and definitions laid out on what the CRITERIA is to be met in order to be 1st place.

It is why there is a symmetry round, posing round, muscularity round, etc.

What should constitute a 1st place finish at the O?

I would think whoever has the best combination of mass, symmetry, conditioning, and posing ability (able to show their physique off to their best advantage) is the one who should place 1st.

So in short, whoever displays the BEST OVERALL physique on stage should win. It's that simple.

In regards to this year's Mr O., Jay did was harshly lacking in conditioning. For that he should of been deducted points...not rewarded points. That is why people are upset and this year's Mr O first place placing was the biggest crock of ****.

Hopefully after reading the above, the Jay nut-huggers can finally see the light of what really took place at the '07 Olympia.

When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives. Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst. It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.

Conditioning is not a grey matter area...you are either shredded or not. Jay was holding water and not conditioned enough to take 1st place. Plain and simple there were more than one bodybuilders there that night that should have placed higher than Jay. It don't take rocket science to see that Jay was way off on his conditioning.

The judges ignored the fact that Jay was off and rewarded him for it. Fuuking sad.

Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does. For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.

Yes, and that is what people are pissed about. He was announced the winner despite not having the best overall package on stage. There were at least 1-2 athletes with better overall physiques that should of placed higher than him. How do you win pre-judging when you are not as conditioned as the other competitors?? What a joke!

[EarlyBirdHustle]

I will probably get some criticism for this, but here goes. I welcome any and all opinions and comments:

The greatest thing about bodybuilding is that it is a sport based on the aesthetic tastes of its competitors, fans and judges. If we plucked 50 people at random from this forum we would have 50 different opinions of what the 'ideal' physique would be. People's tastes change and evolve over the years just as they do in other areas of life.

There is no way to say one bodybuilder is 'better' than another, because the term 'better' is open to personal interpretation. If we admit that some are better than others then we must also admit that there somewhere is a 'best' to serve as a standard to which we must compare all. But if this were the case then we would never have Mr. O's as varied as Ronnie, Zane, Dorian, and Dickerson.

Simply, a bodybuilder must put together an aesthetic package that he thinks is the best, and hope that the judges agree. This is the artistic side of bodybuilding. When a BBer signs his name and agrees to enter a contest, he is agreeing to be subjected fully to the judges whims, tastes, and personal perspectives. Having 'better' biceps, or a 'better' lat spread than the next guy is ridiculous, because there is no empirical way of measuring what constitutes better and worst. It simply comes down to what aesthetic package is most desirable to the particular judges of that particular year.

Jay Cutler put together the package that he felt was the most interesting and hoped for the best, just as every BBer in every contest does. For whatever reason, the judges find his physique pleasing, and he is the winner. NOTE: He is not the 'best', he is only the 'winner'.

Some may say: MuscleTech rigged it.
My reply is that Muscle Tech has little or nothing to gain from rigging the Olympia. How many BBers on this forum will buy a product simply because Mr. O attaches his name to it? My guess would be very few. Most people buy what works best for them regardless of who happens to throw their name behind it. Does MuscleTech really think the 'Mass Stack' is going to fly off the shelves simply because Jay won another Olympia? Most people that walk into GNC don't even know who Jay is. For MuscleTech, paying off the IFBB would probably turn out to be a money-losing affair, with expenses from the payoff itself not even recouped by product sales.

If you read this far, thanks a lot!

I read the whole thing and I respect your opinion. sound sincere. but I do believe you need some "reality" check. big time.

P.S) if the judge gave the Sandow to a true "winner" (as you stated), you wouldn't even need to post "In defense of Jay and the IFBB" in the first place.

[stealth_swimmer]

Dude its not a sport, its a big beauty contest. Thats why unexplained wins happen all the time.In real sports its very cut and dry.Also models spent hours in the gym does that make modeling a sport?

They don't have to flex everything head to toe.

I read the whole thing and I respect your opinion. sound sincere. but I do believe you need some "reality" check. big time.

P.S) if the judge gave the Sandow to a true "winner" (as you stated), you wouldn't even need to post "In defense of Jay and the IFBB" in the first place.

There would still be people saying Victor got robbed if Wolf won, and ppl saying Wolf got robbed if Vic won, and still others that thought Ronnie won(a few delusional ones, yes reading youtube comments).

[Mr. Awesome]

That's pure BULL****! All the hours of lifting in the gym is what makes it a sport! You work your ASS off just to look your best on stage!

You must have never stepted on stage, otherwise you would know that bodybuilding is in fact a sport and it's a tough one to boot!

Lifting is a sport, posing isn't. Posing is gay.

[stealth_swimmer]

Lifting is a sport, posing isn't. Posing is gay.

why are you posting in the IFBB section on a bodybuilding forum again?

[SwolenONE]

TONS of people bitched about flex, priest and levrone getting screwed. Tons still do.
Great comeback on the fridge thing - always good to dispel sarcastic humor with a very literal interpretation and rebuttal - does not in any way make you look incompetent.
Dennis Wolfe, by bodybuilding standards, is pretty damn close to the 'ideal physique'

backing up this poster, flex and levrone are perhaps the most popular BBers of all time, more people bitched then than now about wolf.

[worker07]

There would still be people saying Victor got robbed if Wolf won, and ppl saying Wolf got robbed if Vic won, and still others that thought Ronnie won(a few delusional ones, yes reading youtube comments).

And still other delusional folks who think that Jay won.

[Mr. Awesome]

why are you posting in the IFBB section on a bodybuilding forum again?

What? Because I'm hot I suppose.