Cardio - should I be doing more?

[N-cognita]

I posted about a month ago asking how much cardio to do in addition to my lifting routine, and was told I was doing "too much" as it was, with 25 min a day 3-4 days a week.

Still, whenever I see that people have lost a good amount, it's because they did 45 minutes of cardio 5 days a week. So I wonder if that's the way to do it.

Right now I weigh about 215, and though I don't know my body fat percentage, I know I have gained muscle and lost fat, though the scale hasn't moved much. I've leaned "all over." My extra weight is concentrated below the waist... though I have wide shoulders.

Still, it's not going as quickly as I'd like, so I'm wondering: Should I do longer cardio sessions?

Here's my routine:

Lifting:
2x/week: 2-3 sets, 8-12 reps of legs:
* seated leg press, 195 lbs
* lying down leg press, 135 lbs
* leg extension, 75 lbs
* leg curl, 75 lbs
* calf raises, 75-90 lbs
* abductors and adductors, 100 lbs

1-2x/week, 2-3 sets, 8-12 reps of upper body:
* rowing machine, 60 lbs
* lat pulldown, 75 lbs
* butterfly press, 45 lbs (I use two different machines)
* butterfly press, reverse (to work the back), 45 lbs
* chest press, 45 lbs
* cable tricep pulldown, 30 lbs
* cable bicep pull-up, 40 lbs
* arm extension (tri's), 30 lbs
* arm curl (bi's), 40 lbs

My cardio consists of:
* elliptical, 2x/week, 25 min., high intensity and medium-high resistance
* swimming, 2x/week, 1-1.5 hours, laps, moderate pace, mostly crawl with some breast stroke thrown in. I take 1-2 min. breaks after doing 5-6 laps, but generally keep my heart rate up.

Diet:
Fairly clean (i.e. no junk), though I need to eat more protein throughout the day. I'm eating about 1400-1500 calories per day. One reward 'meal' on Saturday nights.

The other days, I generally take my dog on 1-2 mile walks, sometimes hiking.

[KathyM]

I'll be watching this thread closely because I too am a little confused. A few months back I'd lost heaps of weight but it was eating into my lean tissue because of to much cardio. I was up to an hour (some days an hour and a half) a day 6 days a week, so whilst I lost weight, it was mostly muscle. Very disappointing because all my hard work was lost

So I've cut down to cardio 4 x a week for 45mins each time. I still wonder if that is to much, but I worry that if I cut it out to much I'll put all that weight that I lost on again.

Sorry I can't help but I will be checking in on this thread

[mizzdazzler]

Definatley your goal should be Weight loss!, I would perhaps tapering down the calorie intake slowly and increasing cardio... Perhaps muscle mass is not a good idea? Ideally you should judge yourself by the scales not by the eye at this point in time.

[ATCGal]

Please don't stop lifting weights!!

Gaining muscle will help you lose more weight overall. A few years ago I lost almost 50 pounds by only doing massive amounts of cardio. After I finished losing the weight, what I was left with was NOT pretty. I had to work my butt off w/ weights (and the only cardio I did during that time was 2 HIIT per week) to build a pretty body. I made HUGE strides when I lifted hard, and did smart cardio. If you only do cardio, you will end up looking like a smaller version of your current self.

That being said, have you ever tried HIIT? When I switched from 5 days of steady cardio to 2 days of HIIT, I made HUGE improvements. And even though it's only 20 minutes, you will be exhausted!! And if you want, you could add one longer cardio session somewhere. I usually take like a 5 or 6 mile leisurely run on the weekend.

Just my 2 cents! Good Luck, and don't give up. Even if the scale isn't moving, you are still becoming more healthy each and every day, and that is what's most important

[BBjunkie]

Your calories are very low for how much your working out and your current weight

[sixzebra]

If you diet is clean you should NOT have to do a lot of cardio to meet your weight loss goals.

Some of the most common mistakes I see people make when trying to lose weight are:
#1 - Biggest mistake - cutting calories and overtraining. I'm not a nutrition guru but I can tell you that in a lot of cases this can result in muscle loss and slow down your metabolism.


#2 - Crash diets and pills - Sure the supps can give you energy but be sure and read the fine print. As far as crash diets - I've seen so many people try the latest fad and give up after just a week. You didn't put the weight on overnight so its not going to come off overnight!

#3 - To much cardio to soon. i.e. you are in contest prep mode and you start off the first 5 weeks of a 15 week cut doing 1-2 hrs cardio EVERY day.
so what happens at 5 weeks out, you still need to cut fat? You gonna add another hour of cardio?

#4 - NOTHING trumps a clean diet and exercise - Take the time to educate yourself, read everything you can, take notes, keep a food journal.

IMHO, the standard american diet is what is killing us. I stole someone's quote and put it to good use and that is that you should strive to eat as close to the ground and the hoof as you can. IOW - the less processed the better off you are.

I rarely eat food that I don't cook myself. Except wedding cake. Gotta have that. But its taken me years to retrain my brain and body to get off the american diet.

I don't do a lot of cardio even when in contest prep mode. Currently I'm 4 weeks out and I'm doing maybe 4-5 days a week of 30min cardio. The first 12 mins I'm running, the next 20 mins I'm just walking with incline set up high. Not real intense but enough to get a good sweat. I've been very successful with my diet and very little cardio.

ok, im off my soapbox....

[breathingsky]

If you weigh 215 pounds, are doing that much cardio and only eating 1400 cals per day, you should be seeing some major weight dropping. Are you sure you're eating that low of cals? How long have you been on this plan?

I agree that at your weight, 1400 cals is pretty low. I weight almost 100lbs less than you do, and that's what I eat on a cut PLUS I do less cardio.

[TinaC]

If you weigh 215 pounds, are doing that much cardio and only eating 1400 cals per day, you should be seeing some major weight dropping. Are you sure you're eating that low of cals? How long have you been on this plan?

I agree that at your weight, 1400 cals is pretty low. I weight almost 100lbs less than you do, and that's what I eat on a cut PLUS I do less cardio.

Actually eating ONLY 1400 cal could be what is hurting her. When I first started trying to lose, I cut down to about 1300 a day at a weight of 155 and gained... I had to increase to 1500-1600 to start losing. Your body cannot think that it is starving....and the more your weigh..the more your body needs to maintain.
About cardio...when I first started losing I had to increase cardio because my body was already used to doing about 30 min of cardio a workout. So I started doing 60 min of cardio 5-6 days a week plus about 20 min of lifting. I kept doing that much cardio for about the 1st 2 1/2 months and then cut down, started incorporating HIIT, and started more lifting. I know that this was a lot of cardio, but it worked for me since my body had already adapted to doing cardio.
Most of the women on this forum will probably tell you that you are doing too much cardio (as you have already experienced), but since you are starting at 216 lbs, your body should lose fat before muscle if you continue to do strength training as well.
*Ladies, let me know if I am wrong here.
Just remember that fat is carried within your muscles too, so if it seems like your are losing muscle mass, you may just be losing fat and water within your muscles.

[breathingsky]

This is probably going to start an enormously long thread about starvation mode theory, which is not my intention, but if someone is 215 pounds and eating WAY below maintenance calories while doing all that cardio/lifting, wouldn't they be losing something? Cals in vs. cals out? Even if it's muscle loss, the scale shouldn't be virtually stuck for 5 weeks, right? Or does your metabolism just completely shut down?

[N-cognita]

If you weigh 215 pounds, are doing that much cardio and only eating 1400 cals per day, you should be seeing some major weight dropping. Are you sure you're eating that low of cals? How long have you been on this plan?

I agree that at your weight, 1400 cals is pretty low. I weight almost 100lbs less than you do, and that's what I eat on a cut PLUS I do less cardio.

I've been doing this since about mid-August. I've lost, since then, 8 lbs. on the scale, though I've definitely lost 'bulk' - I have been tracking my progress on BodySpace, though no photos. I've dropped almost two dress sizes.

I tend to put on muscle easily, and have quite a bit of muscle mass due to playing sports growing up. I guess I should step up the amount of food I eat. Frankly, I struggle to get that much food in because I don't feel like eating.

[breathingsky]

I've been doing this since about mid-August. I've lost, since then, 8 lbs. on the scale, though I've definitely lost 'bulk' - I have been tracking my progress on BodySpace, though no photos. I've dropped almost two dress sizes.

I tend to put on muscle easily, and have quite a bit of muscle mass due to playing sports growing up. I guess I should step up the amount of food I eat. Frankly, I struggle to get that much food in because I don't feel like eating.

If you've been eating that little for this long, your body is probably used to the low cals and it might take some getting used to upping them. In the end though, I think it will help with your weight loss. Maybe try upping your cals by 100 per day for a week, then 200 per day the next week? Have an extra tbsp of natural peanut butter, an extra 4oz of chicken breast, or an extra banana. Do it slowly, and it won't feel that uncomfortable.

Also, congrats on your progess thus far. 2 dress sizes is excellent

[dargos9]

I used to be the same way. I didn't eat much but I was still a big girl. I lost a lot of weight through diet and cardio and I ended up being a smaller version of what I was. Now I'm trying to change my body because I had very little muscle. I haven't seen much difference on the scale but I have more muscle now from weight training. I was doing so much cardio and not getting any results, I actually gained weight. That was very frustrating. I changed to concentrating on weight training and HIIT. I only weight train each body part once a week, that is divided into 3 sessions, and limit the HIIT to twice a week. I actually eat more now than I did before. I hope this helps you and good luck.

[comebakthursday]

This is probably going to start an enormously long thread about starvation mode theory, which is not my intention, but if someone is 215 pounds and eating WAY below maintenance calories while doing all that cardio/lifting, wouldn't they be losing something? Cals in vs. cals out? Even if it's muscle loss, the scale shouldn't be virtually stuck for 5 weeks, right? Or does your metabolism just completely shut down?

I don't mean to be a male lurker in the female training section but i saw the thread and have to put my 2cents in.

I had a lady at my work who weighed about 160, and how did she drop to 120 in 7 months? 6 meals a day at about 3-500 calories each, and lifting weights. My point being..the only thing other then muscle and working out that speeds your metabolism is CALORIES. If your body does not have the calories to support the muscle recovery from your workouts, plus your metabolism, plus whatever your burning during cardio and daily activities, your bodies metabolism will slow down and you will gain as a result of less calories.

A year or so back i ate about 4500-5500 calories a day. Then i quit after 3 years of weightlifting, went to cardio and body weight exercises(never before in my life doing either), about 2500-3000 calories, and i gained 4% bodyfat in 3 months(thats right, less calories and more cardio and i GAIN fat). My body was so adapted to functioning off those calories that my metabolism shut down when i dropped them.

People, men and women, regardless of their goals need to understand that the key to weight gain and weight loss is calories, whether it's to gain muscle to burn fat 24/7 or to lost fat. What everyone seems to overlook is the fact that those are not the only things that calories are responsible for. You have to take into consideration the half a dozen things in your body(if not more) that your body NEEDS calories for and how much your keeping your body from functioning properly from cutting so many calories. Not to say that cutting calories and cardio dont work, but you need to take into thought as to where your getting the calories from, how much you will need to help recover, and how much your metabolism needs to function. Anyone looking to lose weight needs to figure out the perfect(if there is such a thing) ratio between fats/carbs/proteins, and stick to that diet. Consistency pays off, even with a sucky program you should see SOMETHING.

Whoever said "to lose fat, you need to burn more calories then you eat", is an absolute dumbass.

Im no genius and theres PLENTY i dont know about weight loss/weight gain, but i do know what little i just stated is in fact true.

Good luck towards your future goals, 12 months down the road, you will be whoever you want to be and look however you want to look if you keep smart and make realistic goals, never dismiss the mental aspect to anything you want to achieve in life.

[Melody]

I agree with the person who said try doing high intensity cardio twice a week and then a longer moderate cardio session once a week. You will burn more calories that way and an added bonus is that doing high intensity cardio workouts increase calories burned even during moderate workouts or rest days Good luck to you!

[N-cognita]

I agree with the person who said try doing high intensity cardio twice a week and then a longer moderate cardio session once a week. You will burn more calories that way and an added bonus is that doing high intensity cardio workouts increase calories burned even during moderate workouts or rest days Good luck to you!

Thank you! I think I just need to be more patient, but things will work out in the end.

[Miranda]

If your body does not have the calories to support the muscle recovery from your workouts, plus your metabolism, plus whatever your burning during cardio and daily activities, your bodies metabolism will slow down and you will gain as a result of less calories.

how does that happen?

[breathingsky]

No idea.

Comebakthursday - you gained 4% body fat from cutting your calories in half and eating below maintenance? That doesn't make any sense.

[prdelka]

How this can happend?? I was think that if I cut calories too low and I add more cardio..I should lose weight..right?? But what about if is it opposite..I do cardio 4-5 days {2 days HIIT 30min+ 2-3 days 45-60min} + 4 days weights {every day 30min..heavy}
Eating around 1200 cal..sometimes even less sometimes 1400cal.
Why I am gaining..I don't see any result..that's flustruated. Why is it like that???

[comebakthursday]

No idea.

Comebakthursday - you gained 4% body fat from cutting your calories in half and eating below maintenance? That doesn't make any sense.

Considering you have so many reps, im going to go on a hunch and say that you obvioulsy know what your talking about when it comes to exercising, or else you wouldnt have been repped so much.

Now everyone knows that when someone goes into starvation there body shuts down in order to conserve energy. Therefore your metabolism slows down GREATLY to help store fat levels and save whats left of any remaining calories.

Now take into consideration the fact that your body can adapt to ANYTHING over time. You can become immune to medications, allergies(if exposed at certain levels, hence the reason for allergy shots), diets, exercise, duration of sleep, etc.

Because of all this is one of the reasons that you MUST change up your diet and routine on a regular basis in order to continue seeing gains or losses depending on your goals. Now imagine a body builder just starting off(male) at 150 pounds. He increases his calorie intake(naturally) to help build size(lets say 3000 calories a day). Well like any bodybuilding, there will come a time when those calories are only enough to maintain his current level of fitness, not to support any gains. Therefore he has to incrase his daily calorie intake to 3500-4000 calories a day. Sooner or later he gets to the point where hes gained enough muscle that hes ingesting up to 5-6000 calories a day. His body becomes adapt, just the way a normal persons body(normal meaning someone not involved in physical activity) adapts to there daily diet, the average 3 meals a day with a little soda and junk food mixed in.

If this "normal" person were to suddenly cut there food intake in half, without doing anything to speed up the metabolism(such as exercise), there metabolism would slow and for AT LEAST several weeks if not a couple months their body will take all the fat and calories taken in and store it, rather then burn it, as if a persons body would whos pushed into starvation. Same thing for someone eating 6000 calories a day, it gets to the point where those 6000 are NORMAL, not high, not low, just average for this specific person. If you could imagine how a "normal" persons metabolism would slow, thing about how someone eating 4-5 times that many calories then suddenly cutting them in half would slow. Not only that, but any beginner in either cardio or weightlifting, sees BURST of improvment. There body has never experienced anything like it before and reacts accordingly, until it adapts. So considering it was the first cardio i ever participated in, that burnt even MORE calories. Thats why i tell everyone i train with now that the first 3-6 months are crucial for there goals. It's pretty dramatic.

In fact, i just began eating like that again and weightlifting after a few months off, but before i go into the Marines june of 08, i will have to re-adapt to 2-3000 calories a day in order not push such a sudden change on my body and gain weight while in boot camp.

To put everything simply, increased calories(to an extent, with proper fats/proten/carbs ratio) can increase the speed of your metabolism. Conversly, decreased calories can shut it down, if not done carefully.

My computers beeing funky, if i can find a link later and post it i will, hopefully something that can provide much better examples then i can.

[gfundaro]

how does that happen?

On the most basic level-- leptin. Other things go on as well, but leptin plays a huge role in regulating your RMR. As your body fat levels fall, leptin both increases hunger and decreases energy expenditure as an effort in self-preservation. It does indeed happen, but you won't go from a BMR of 1800 to something silly like 400. It'll still make a difference though, and can absolutely cause a plateau.

[breathingsky]

Considering you have so many reps, im going to go on a hunch and say that you obvioulsy know what your talking about when it comes to exercising, or else you wouldnt have been repped so much.

Now everyone knows that when someone goes into starvation there body shuts down in order to conserve energy. Therefore your metabolism slows down GREATLY to help store fat levels and save whats left of any remaining calories.

Now take into consideration the fact that your body can adapt to ANYTHING over time. You can become immune to medications, allergies(if exposed at certain levels, hence the reason for allergy shots), diets, exercise, duration of sleep, etc.

Because of all this is one of the reasons that you MUST change up your diet and routine on a regular basis in order to continue seeing gains or losses depending on your goals. Now imagine a body builder just starting off(male) at 150 pounds. He increases his calorie intake(naturally) to help build size(lets say 3000 calories a day). Well like any bodybuilding, there will come a time when those calories are only enough to maintain his current level of fitness, not to support any gains. Therefore he has to incrase his daily calorie intake to 3500-4000 calories a day. Sooner or later he gets to the point where hes gained enough muscle that hes ingesting up to 5-6000 calories a day. His body becomes adapt, just the way a normal persons body(normal meaning someone not involved in physical activity) adapts to there daily diet, the average 3 meals a day with a little soda and junk food mixed in.

If this "normal" person were to suddenly cut there food intake in half, without doing anything to speed up the metabolism(such as exercise), there metabolism would slow and for AT LEAST several weeks if not a couple months their body will take all the fat and calories taken in and store it, rather then burn it, as if a persons body would whos pushed into starvation. Same thing for someone eating 6000 calories a day, it gets to the point where those 6000 are NORMAL, not high, not low, just average for this specific person. If you could imagine how a "normal" persons metabolism would slow, thing about how someone eating 4-5 times that many calories then suddenly cutting them in half would slow. Not only that, but any beginner in either cardio or weightlifting, sees BURST of improvment. There body has never experienced anything like it before and reacts accordingly, until it adapts. So considering it was the first cardio i ever participated in, that burnt even MORE calories. Thats why i tell everyone i train with now that the first 3-6 months are crucial for there goals. It's pretty dramatic.

In fact, i just began eating like that again and weightlifting after a few months off, but before i go into the Marines june of 08, i will have to re-adapt to 2-3000 calories a day in order not push such a sudden change on my body and gain weight while in boot camp.

To put everything simply, increased calories(to an extent, with proper fats/proten/carbs ratio) can increase the speed of your metabolism. Conversly, decreased calories can shut it down, if not done carefully.

My computers beeing funky, if i can find a link later and post it i will, hopefully something that can provide much better examples then i can.

I do understand how your metabolism can slow down from eating less, and I can understand hitting a plateau in your training because of it...but gaining 4% bodyfat still doesn't really make sense to me if you're eating below maintenance. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I just don't buy that. I'm not saying your weight didn't go up, but could you possibly have just been retaining more water for whatever reason? Maybe your maintenance calories were much lower than you thought they were?

[TheRockShow182]

I don't do a lot of cardio even when in contest prep mode. Currently I'm 4 weeks out and I'm doing maybe 4-5 days a week of 30min cardio. The first 12 mins I'm running, the next 20 mins I'm just walking with incline set up high. Not real intense but enough to get a good sweat. I've been very successful with my diet and very little cardio.

How do you stay learn without cardio? Do you change your lifting style often by alternating weight and rep. amounts? Do you circuit train?

I'm wondering because I currently do a lot of cardio: 15 mins of easy cardio before Lifiting, 30 mins of lifting, then 30 mins of cardio which is more intense.

[mzsexuall]

I'd probably say less..

[CurlyKim]

I don't really have much basis apart from my own experience on this, but 6 months or so ago I was doing probably at least double the cardio I'm doing now and eating about 1300 calories a day to maintain. I just presumed this was my maintainance calorie level, I mean you can't eat more, do less, and not put on weight, right?

However, on advice from others, and some research, the addition of a weight training routine, a cut in cardio, and a gradual increase in calories, 3 weeks ago before I decided to try and start bulking, I was maintaining on 1800.

So my answer to your question would be yes, you are doing enough cardio. But also, you're probably not eating enough, as others have said. What does your lifting routine look like in relation to your cardio? ie, are you doing it before/after/at different times of the day etc?

[comebakthursday]

I do understand how your metabolism can slow down from eating less, and I can understand hitting a plateau in your training because of it...but gaining 4% bodyfat still doesn't really make sense to me if you're eating below maintenance. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I just don't buy that. I'm not saying your weight didn't go up, but could you possibly have just been retaining more water for whatever reason? Maybe your maintenance calories were much lower than you thought they were?

I get what your saying. According to various estimated charts my maintenance levels were right where they should be. Plus that wouldnt explain my increase in cardio and increase in weight, it would of had to of been something different.

Curious, does water retention affect body fat measurments?

To clarify, my BF percentages were taken from both calipers and a weight scale. I wish i could scan the before and after pictures to show you the difference in my weight gain in those few months.

[breathingsky]

Curious, does water retention affect body fat measurments?

It doesn't affect your actual body fat, but it can affect your measurements.

[N-cognita]

I don't really have much basis apart from my own experience on this, but 6 months or so ago I was doing probably at least double the cardio I'm doing now and eating about 1300 calories a day to maintain. I just presumed this was my maintainance calorie level, I mean you can't eat more, do less, and not put on weight, right?

However, on advice from others, and some research, the addition of a weight training routine, a cut in cardio, and a gradual increase in calories, 3 weeks ago before I decided to try and start bulking, I was maintaining on 1800.

So my answer to your question would be yes, you are doing enough cardio. But also, you're probably not eating enough, as others have said. What does your lifting routine look like in relation to your cardio? ie, are you doing it before/after/at different times of the day etc?

I go to the gym after work. I do a 5-10 minute warm-up, then lift for about an hour or so, drink a protein shake, then do cardio for about 15-20 minutes (machines) or 1 hour (swimming laps).