Hi good day to all.
I was wondering if it is possible to build lots of muscle and get a decent mass increase without supplements. Right now my studies are absorbing all my cash flow and I find it hard to spend almost $60 a month.
05-09-2005, 08:31 AM #1
05-09-2005, 08:40 AM #2
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05-09-2005, 08:41 AM #3
Yep it sure is! Supplements have their role in bodybuilding but are def not essential in my view. If you`re on a small budget get yourself (dependant on your goals/required intake) some of the following
protein powder (whey and casein)
There are some really good whole food recipes ideas in the nutrition sectiopn of this forum...check them out
05-09-2005, 08:58 AM #4Originally Posted by chad84
in fact most of the big guys are not too crazy about supps
multivit. + multimineral and whey alone are cool
and if you eat a lot you don't need whey at all
in fact its better to dring gallon milk/day than take some fancy supps...[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=381194&page=1[/url]
05-09-2005, 09:18 AM #5Originally Posted by chad84
05-09-2005, 09:20 AM #6
05-09-2005, 12:23 PM #7
I agree with eveyone here on this, and I wish more people would get their head out of the sand and save their money and quit blowing it on dick squat.
Supplements are worthless.
That's right, Creatine, Glutamine, and whatever other piece of urine producing crap out there, it's all worthless. I bought the stuff too when I was young and foolish, but ask most of the seasoned guys and they'll tell you the same thing; usless garbage. For those guys who've made it pretty far for themeslves with supps, I can guarantee you it wasn't the supps that did it. The only supplement that is useful is a protien supplement. They're convienent and in many ways cheaper than using meat or dairy. For example, 25g from my protien supplement costs 65 cents, whereas the equvalent from eggs costs about $1.40. A multi is useful as well.
No supplement will make up for a lousy training and diet regiment. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that no supplement will make a productive training and diet regiment more productive. If anything, anything at all, supplements MIGHT be the cause of 0.1% of a bodybuilder's success. I remember seeing some dude on here who posted his "supplement schedule." What a joke! I think he got some of them for free though.
Save your money and learn about training and diet, those are the keys to muscle growth. Don't listen to any sell out who's trying to pawn worthless powder or pills off on you, or tells you that you have to take "piece of garbage X" to make gains or to make a program work.
05-09-2005, 12:26 PM #8
It saddens me that this is what it has come to. I hope Joe Weider burns in Hell."When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail."
"Ass busting work + consistency + time = results.
Burn that into your head and quit looking for quick fixes and secrets. Because they don't exist."
"You can't overwhelm idiots with knowledge, but, sadly, the knowledgable can be overwhelmed by idiots."
05-09-2005, 12:29 PM #9
I agree completely. Even my Whey protein lasts me a long time. Nothing beats real wholesome food. Most times al a person needs is a muti vit and essential fats. I stopped wasting my money on that crap and built my own gym at home. It's convenient, no line ups, close to the kitchen and the barbecue grill, speaking of wich, were's the brickets lol.
Cheers and good luck
05-09-2005, 12:53 PM #10Originally Posted by chad84
The first thing to understand, is that SUPPLEMENTS ARE SIMPLY DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS. They are generally found in nutritional whole foods that we can choose to eat and you are better off simply eating whole foods. That said, supplements have their place particularly in bodybuilding and fitness. A good multivitamin to fill in any gaps in your vitamins or minerals and similar with your EFA's to ensure you don't have any deficencys. Powdered Protein is an quick and easy way to meat caloric and protein demands, particularly when trying to eat 5-7meals a days is simply too demanding on your lifestyle. Many take creatine for its unquestionable role in strength and building muscle, backed by countless research, but again, the same results could be achieved without it, though you may shave some time off achieving those results. But none of its is NECESSARY. Beyond that, most of the "supplementation" is snakeoil, IMO. Now I realize there are some products out there that are certainly legit, but the same result can be had without it, though it may take a little more time. I myself take a fat burner during cutting cycles.
Please just consider it a lesson learned. You dont' NEED supplements, but they can make things more convenient in meeting calorie and protein demands and help improve effecency of training/nutrition in achieving your goals.
05-09-2005, 01:44 PM #11
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I agree. I've tried many supplements, but diet, rest, and lifting routine are the keys. I'm not as extreme in my views of supplements--I fall in the middle. Some do have positive effects, but they can become very expensive, and can have side effects that no one can ever predict. Some just have negative effects outright. Most are useless money sponges. I'll occasionally try a new supplement out of curiosity if there's a big buzz over it, but it can never take the place of grueling work, and IMO, should never be relied upon to help you reach a goal. Psycological dependance is no joke. Inexpensive whey is always a good choice, especially if you're not eating two pounds of meat per day. Sleep is really cheap too.
05-09-2005, 01:47 PM #12
The biggest problem with supplement costs is figuring out what works for you and that can be pricey in of itself. Further, I have made significant gains over the years without any supplements. While specific things become easier to accomplish with some supps, remember that food is better and supplements are just that. You don't have to have supps to be successful, just make sure that is figured into whatever goals you set.
05-09-2005, 01:53 PM #13Originally Posted by RB12
First you have no control group, so you have nothing to compare against. Second there are simply countless variables invovled. IMO You simply cannot determine the effectiveness of many supplements as there are simply too many variables. With years of experience in nutrition and training your body, you become more and more intune with it, and can "sense" thing better, but even then. Supplements are simply a small small percent of the big pictures. Concentrate on the large percentage variables, ie reistance training, nutrition, and cardio.
05-09-2005, 02:07 PM #14
[QUOTE=TurboGuy]There in lies the problem. So many people buy supplements, change their nutrition and training. When they get improvements, the supplement is "off the hook" if they don't then the supplement "sucks".[QUOTE]
You make a good point. It definitely takes time in order to figure out how your body responds to changes in workouts, nutrition and supps. And while I agree that supps are a small piece of the picture and there are countelss variables, that does not mean you cannot tell if a supplement works for you or not. The biggest problems I have seen is that 1) too many people look for that "magic bullet" - the pill or powder that will replace the need to lift and 2) lack of patience.
1) There is no magic bullet, body building takes a lot of work. 2) Whether you are inserting a new supp into a preexisting workout routine or concentrating on the larger variables like reistance training, nutrition, and cardio, give it time. You will not, per se, see results over night, but stick with a program and look for long-term results.
I completely agree with TurboGuy to the extent that supps in of themselves are not the primary factor to success and should not be treated as such. You can get great gains without them if you work at it hard and properly.
05-09-2005, 02:17 PM #15
The last few months I have been very lazy about taking supps yet I am still slapping on the muscle. Having said this what works for one person may not work for someone else. I suggest you try taking supps for 6 weeks and then stop for 6 weeks. If taking supps looks like it helps you >significantly< then continue. If supps don't make much/any difference then you might consider doing without them.
05-09-2005, 03:33 PM #16
05-09-2005, 03:35 PM #17
05-09-2005, 03:38 PM #18
05-09-2005, 03:41 PM #19
05-09-2005, 03:48 PM #20
05-09-2005, 03:54 PM #21Originally Posted by Eddiejt
Regardless, with the spirit of this thread, yes, you can use food, water, sleep and lifting to create great gains without using supplements.
05-09-2005, 04:01 PM #22
Most definately yes.
You can indeed be one hell of a specimen without ANY supplements.
I'm talking no whey, creatine, etc etc.
Just good old fashioned food. Lean protein, healthy fats, fruits and veggies.
For many years I fell into the trap that supplements were essential.
Now for the last nine months or so I have been totally sup free. Not only is my bank account thanking me but there have been no changes at all in my body.
I feel so sorry for those who spend a fortune on sups each month because they've been fooled into believing they are essential.
05-09-2005, 04:09 PM #23Originally Posted by doughasmuscles
05-09-2005, 04:52 PM #24
Ouuuuuuuuuwwweee! Another good thread! I remember last summer I had a roomer here who was training cause he was taking a security course and he went out and spent 200 bucks on sups. We laughed at is hard earn cash spent on pills, heck it wasnt even whey protein. Guess what by the end of summer he had not gained a pound. Not only did he have no training knowledge but he was too stupid to listen to peope who did. He just stuck with his friends who were reading all the adds in Flex. Lets face it. Even if the supps worked you would still need a good training program with plenty of recovery built in. Not to mention good nutrition besides. So even if they worked they would still be only a small part of the equation and not the solution itself. As for whey protein, heck it's protein. It does the job but my body still thanks me for the sirloin I barbecued after my workout. There's still nothing that will replace a good healthy, hearty diet for fuelling the body.
Cheers and good luck
05-09-2005, 05:39 PM #25
I've already bashed supplements above, so I won't do it again. It's on the same lines as what Lion said.
I just wanted to point out the saaaaaad state of affairs, and how many people have been fooled into thinking that supplements are the the missing link in their program. At the time of writing this, there were 147 people viewing the Supplement board, 48 viewing the Training board, and a measily 33 viewing the Nutrition board.
This tells me that over 50% of the people looking for some kind of key to progress (as they're probably looking for some kind of clue on supplements, or they wouldn't be on there), have been tricked into believing it comes in some magic bottle.
The sad thing is, try to tell any of those kids that they're wasting their money, and they'll come up with any excuse to keep on searching for the magic pill.
And no, I don't think we can tar protien supplements with the same brush, for the reasons I stated above.
05-09-2005, 06:33 PM #26
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05-10-2005, 01:43 AM #27
Its scary to watch trainers down my gym.......buying up their red kicks before a workout....purchasing their carbo/protein fuel during their workout and eagerly gulping down their bottles of multipower fit protein cause the multipower poster says if they dont drink at least 2 after training they wont make the 100000000000000% gain in lean muscle mass ----I am joking, so anybody who is new to bodybuilding/training please dont rush out and stock up!)...........ha....goddam muscletech have got to be the worst for advertising.....followed by EAS.......what do you guys reckon????
This is a good thread......I personally think whey protein has its place but all the other stuff.....try it by all means.....but......dont by any means expect to see results!!!!
05-10-2005, 07:46 AM #28Originally Posted by Eddiejt
I understand what you are asking now. Yes and no. Many "protein" supplements may contain additional "stuff" and there are different types of protein with different processes. Whether one is more beneficial than the next is up for debate and/or is questionable, the bottom line is you are looking for a quick "liquid food" to supply protein and calories and possible carbs, and a protein powder, any protein powder, can fill that bill.
05-12-2005, 12:03 PM #29Originally Posted by TurboGuy
I use ProV60 from Labrada. Claims to also be protein and nothing else
05-12-2005, 03:58 PM #30