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  1. #1
    Navy Seal Fo Realz yo Lzybstrd's Avatar
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    Arrow how fast does it take creatine to break down in water

    just curious because an article i read said instantly (it was talking about liquid creatine being useless) but if this is so then why would powder creatine instruct you to put it in water? i figured it was an exageration but i am just woundering
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  2. #2
    (((====((() Dia-Tribe's Avatar
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    If your talking about MMUSA read the following:
    http://bodybuilding.about.com/b/a/102965.htm

    Liquid Creatine Manufacturer Fined
    Muscle Marketing USA (MMUSA), maker of the popular liquid creatine supplement ATP Advantage Creatine Serum, has been fined $70,000 US by an Auckland district court for violating the New Zealand Fair Trade Act. MMUSA is charged with making false representations about the effectiveness of its creatine serum and concentration levels contained in each bottle. Label claims state that 5ml of the serum contain 2500 mg of creatine but test results indicated a presence of just 11.5mg creatine. Creatine is known to be unstable in liquid form, but MMUSA has continued to market their product globally.

    For more tradition creatines here's a bit of history in an
    interesting article that provides you with more than you asked.

    The Evolution of Creatine Products
    Creatine supplementation was, at best, a shotgun effect in the beginning. Athletes were dumping a spoonful in to water or into their mouth and swigging it down before and after workouts. New research showed that effective doses of 5 grams resulted in measurable performance increases. Soon creatine pills, candy bars and gum were pawned off on unsuspecting athletes with little or no positive effect.

    In a short time, one of creatine monohydrate’s original researchers, Dr. Greenhoff announced, "Creatine is much more effective in aqueous delivery than in a dry delivery". So thousands of bodybuilders began mixing the white, sand-like substance with water, choking it down before and after workouts. Since there was very little information about dosing per day and cycling at that time, many athletes were taking 5-35 grams a day, depending on what fitness magazine they were reading. Many of those same bodybuilders went around cramping and doubled over all the way to the gym, many to make a regular detour to the bathroom before and after the workout. We all accepted that this was just the price we had to pay to use a natural supplement that worked. Strength and bodyweight increases were common, but these side effects still kept many but the hardest core athletes away.

    Soon research showed that adding simple carbohydrates like dextrose found in grape juice could improve the muscles uptake of creatine over ingesting regular creatine on it's own. This was due to the increase in insulin in the bloodstream created by the simple sugar. Still, while performance improved over creatine monohydrate alone, little was done about the hydration problems caused by creatine use.

    The first attempt to improve creatine's physical delivery came in the form of a liquid or suspended delivery. Because creatine has a very short life (just an hour or so) in aqueous form when combined with water, storing it or selling it after it had been combined with water was impossible. Creatine monohydrate quickly converted to creatinine within minutes. Creatinine is useless to increase performance and is actually a bi-product of creatine capable of causing harm to the kidneys and muscle. To alleviate this problem companies attempted to use other liquids other than water to suspend creatine monohydrate, enter the creatine suspension era. Since Creatine monohydrate was easily suspended in liquids other than water such as Aloe or glycerine, a new idea began to take over. Creatine suspensions were created and claims of several hundred percent increase of creatine into the bloodstream fueled research and controversy but mostly it fueled sales. Slimy texture and bad taste tarnished its reputation, but what really became its Achilles heel were the very claims that were made by the inventors. We learned that more creatine in the bloodstream did not equal more useful creatine into the muscle to improve performance. In fact the liquids that bound with creatine to protect it from converting to creatinine failed to separate from the creatine after passing through the stomach. Actual results from this product rarely improved performance over creatine and water, let alone creatine with dextrose in water. Aloe helped to improve stomach discomfort caused by creatine but did nothing to aid in the all-important hydration issue, many people still ended up on the toilet after simply taking 5-10 grams at a time. Water in, water out = hydration problem.

    Creatine supplementation’s big break came in 1998 when we learned what really was the cause of the hydration and stomach problems brought on by creatine use. Not to anyone’s surprise, Creatine was found to be very insoluble in water. Stir 5-10 grams of creatine monohydrate into water and maybe 2 grams actually dissolve. The breakthrough came when we found the undissolved creatine did little if anything to improve performance. The human body is not capable of making the insoluble creatine dissolve once it enters the body, so if you mix any more than 2 grams of creatine monohydrate into water, it will most likely sit in the stomach and intestine like it sits in the bottom of the glass. When the undissolved creatine exits the stomach into the small intestine where nutrients are actually absorbed into the bloodstream a fundamental problem arises. The undissolved creatine is no different in the small intestine than in the glass, undissolved. The particles are too large to enter the bloodstream and are not allowed into the lymphatic system. Where can it go? Water is drawn into the small intestine in a largely vain attempt to dissolve it. Where does the water come from? The bloodstream. Bingo, the hydration problem! Where does this water go when it accumulates in the intestines? Where gravity must take it, down and out! In most users this meant diarrhea, water along with the undissolved creatine a.k.a. your money. As with diarrhea of any kind whether brought on by creatine or illness, keeping up with fluid intake is extremely difficult. Electrolytes are lost; the heart rate can also be affected, along with a host of other serious health problems. In addition, many athletes whether they are on the field or in the gym are already losing water through perspiration, a double whammy. Once the hydration culprit was found the search was on to find the solution. Boiling creatine may have been the first choice, of the insane, but by the time the water is cool enough to drink, what small percentage of creatine that dissolved fell back out of solution again. In 1998, a delivery system was discovered which chemically altered creatine dramatically increasing its solubility, Effervescent delivery.

    The correct execution of Effervescent Delivery for creatine (which was achieved by only one manufacturer) tremendously improved the solubility of creatine. So much so that close to 100 percent solubility was achieved. This created a windfall of advantages for the athlete both in safety and performance. No longer would undissolved creatine cause havoc in the body’s digestive system. There would be no more stomach cramping, no more diarrhea; many people that had sworn off creatine could now experience the "Creatine Miracle" for themselves. Having close to 100 percent solubility meant that taking the regular 5 grams per dose and having this dissolve was effectively like taking 2-3 servings (10-15 grams) of regular non-effervescent creatine monohydrate throughout the day. This was a major improvement in convenience. Obviously having more soluble unbound creatine available in the bloodstream helped to improve performance tremendously, significantly more than creatine, creatine and dextrose, or especially suspended liquid creatine.
    Last edited by Dia-Tribe; 05-07-2005 at 01:46 AM.
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  3. #3
    Navy Seal Fo Realz yo Lzybstrd's Avatar
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    Lightbulb what was that one manufacturer?

    btw thanks for responding.. however i used a heaping table spoon (the pakage said teaspoon) in 6 fl of water and the whole thing dissolved so is this article really true?

    the company who made mine is ultimate nutrition
    Last edited by Lzybstrd; 05-07-2005 at 01:57 AM.
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