Finished Creatine cycle, what will happen?

[PowerSwede]

1) Assuming that is true, it indicates a serious problem.

2) It's sad that you keep confusing "gains" with lbs.

3) YES you may lose some of the LBS you gained with creatine. This is not where the emphasis should be.

4) The strength gains during your creatine cycle cannot be "taken away". They have already occured. They are real strength gains. The weight you lifted was real. The hypertrophy was real.

1. I know about a dozen other guys from that time that have the same serious problem, in fact, i do not know anyone who's been off steroids for +5 years that haven't had the same serious problem. I do wish it wasn't true though, i'd be 270 @ 8 now but from the last decade of working out hard, eating right and using supplements i have lost 20lbs since i got off the juice.

2. It's sad that you don't get that you can interchange strenght with gains in all of my examples.

3. NO you will lose all of them AND you will lose your strenght gains too since you'll lose SOME strenght directly and plateu for a while, i have yet to see anyone who goes off creatine and continues to gain strenght OR mass.

4. All of the strenght gains during your creatine cycle are not going to stay with you when you go off, at least they don't for me or anyone else i know of, if i go off creatine i lose strenght and if i stay off it i'll plateu for a while after that.

[toughnuts]

No, you will gradually lose all muscle you have gained from your weight lifting, your body doesn't keep more muscle than what's absolutely needed for your everyday tasks.

That is not true at all. I think you are underestimating the human bodies ability to ADAPT! For instance, a 23 yr. guy is 125 pounds. Lets say it takes him 6 years and he gets up to 225 at the same bodyfat. If he completely stops lifting his body WILL NOT go back to 135 pounds at the same bodyfat. This is commen sense, you do not need a scientific study to back it up. But im sure you will pull one out of your ass for me .

[PowerSwede]

That is not true at all. I think you are underestimating the human bodies ability to ADAPT! For instance, a 23 yr. guy is 125 pounds. Lets say it takes him 6 years and he gets up to 225 at the same bodyfat. If he completely stops lifting his body WILL NOT go back to 135 pounds at the same bodyfat. This is commen sense, you do not need a scientific study to back it up. But im sure you will pull one out of your ass for me .

If anything YOU are underestimating the human bodies ability to adapt.

Your body HATES muscle mass and LOVES fat, it will do anything to keep muscle mass off your body and store as much fat as possible, when you work out you are FORCING your body to adapt to the increased stress, your body does this by increasing muscle volume so it can better handle the load you throw at it, but muscle isn't what your body wants and it won't build or keep more than it absolutely has to.

You see, muscle uses energy, the more muscle, the more energy will be consumed, your body doesn't like that at all, it want to store as much energy as possible (as fat) so it can keep you alive during periods of starvation and have as little muscle as possible that will use up the stored energy.

So it's pretty obvious, your body will keep as much muscle as it needs for you to perform your everyday tasks, if you don't work out, you need less muscle and therefore, you will have less muscle.

I don't think there even are any studies that have studied that, it's too obvious, like, if don't eat you'll get hungry kinda obvious.

[Big Natural]

Have been off for 2 days, lost 3 lbs, bench went up by 10 lbs.

Maybe I will notice it a little more after a week .

[PowerSwede]

Have been off for 2 days, lost 3 lbs, bench went up by 10 lbs.

Maybe I will notice it a little more after a week .

It'll take about a month to return to normal levels but you'll start to notice it sooner than that.

[toughnuts]

It is not obvious at all. I have had times where I stop working out for months at a time, and I lose maybe a couple pounds of muscle at the MOST. It is because your body adapts to having the new muscle. Yes you will lose some, but not ALL like you are saying.

[toughnuts]

It'll take about a month to return to normal levels but you'll start to notice it sooner than that.

Don't listen to this guy BIGNATURAL.

[Big Natural]

Hm I will try this first. I sort of hit an plateau after my first cycle, not much gains (only 5% per week strengthwise). And unfortunatly supplements are really expensive here since they are all imported from the US. 2 lbs of proteine powder (prolab Pro Whey) will set you back for 40 dollar, creatine (400gr.) will cost you 40 dollar too and animalpak is close to $55.

That means a lot of dough for one month and since I didn't want to rob an old woman again the 4 weeks off creatine is okay with me. I am not hardcore into powerlifting so I don't think it wouldn't matter THAT much to give my body a month off creatine. I am still growing very fast so when I hit my second plataue without the creatine I will start again and gain mass fast again. I also don't like the waterretention from creatine (like 20lbs) which makes me feel bloaty and stuff. It is great stuff nonetheless and gives massive superpower! Would superman be on creatine?

Anyway I draw my own conclusions and want to try a month off and see what happens in strength, weight and size and we'll see then .

Thanks for the debate! Helped a lot .

[bigassdude]

Just finished my first 2 month Creatine cycle and I was wondering what will exactly happen?

Will my strength subdue much? Will I lose water that makes me look more cut? Will I lose endurance? Does Creatine store water around muscles too?

I was also wondering how long I should take off in between cycles? The dude at the supplement shop told me a month is enough for cellreceptors to upgrade.

Can anyone elaborate on this?

Thank you in advance!

Dude, if u have to ask that much about creatine, then u shouldnt of been taking it in the first place!

[Big Natural]

Dude, if u have to ask that much about creatine, then u shouldnt of been taking it in the first place!

I know my stuff, I just wanted to know that what I know is correct. You have so many information sources that it is very difficult to know what is right in the first place. First I spend 3 nights figuring out what creatine was, how it should be taken, how it worked, what the dangers were etc etc. Then I went to my supplement shop and the friendly guy behind the counter told me almost exactly what I found out about it. My only worry was about the off cycle. I hear many contradictions about losing gains you made with it.

I monitor very closely what I put in my body, I always read up as much as I can, then ask my mother who is a doctor, then go to supplement shop and ask that guys ears of his head and only then I would proceed to use something like creatine.

That's what I wanted to know. It isn't like I don't know squat about it, I just like it veryfied by more people .

You see?

[toughnuts]

Dude just buy the suppliments in bulk. I am guessing the shipping cost make the price go way up. But you can get 1000 grams of creatine mono for like 15 bucks here in the US, and I have even see bulk CEE on sale 1000 grams for 35 bucks. Animal pack.....is not worth 55 dollars......

[not_big_enuf]

amen, buy bulk mono or CEE, whichever you prefer. how can you beat $35 for 1000 grams?

Dude just buy the suppliments in bulk. I am guessing the shipping cost make the price go way up. But you can get 1000 grams of creatine mono for like 15 bucks here in the US, and I have even see bulk CEE on sale 1000 grams for 35 bucks. Animal pack.....is not worth 55 dollars......

[Big Natural]

Yea I wanted to buy the stuff in small sizes first to figure out if it would be worth bulk buying. Nothing worse than 40lbs worth of filthy ass protein powder and non-effective creatine .

[PowerSwede]

It is not obvious at all. I have had times where I stop working out for months at a time, and I lose maybe a couple pounds of muscle at the MOST. It is because your body adapts to having the new muscle. Yes you will lose some, but not ALL like you are saying.

I honestly hope you are joking.

[toughnuts]

Damnit I am not joking. That was not a very good post, but all I am trying to say is that if "Joe" gains 70 pounds of muscle in 5 years, then totally stops lifting weight. You honestly think he will lose that 70 pounds of muscle that he gained? That is absolutely ludicrous.

[PowerSwede]

Damnit I am not joking. That was not a very good post, but all I am trying to say is that if "Joe" gains 70 pounds of muscle in 5 years, then totally stops lifting weight. You honestly think he will lose that 70 pounds of muscle that he gained? That is absolutely ludicrous.

*shakes head*

I'm not even going to discuss this any further because i really can't believe you're serious.

[toughnuts]

Ditto. I also agree that you will not lose all your gains from creatine. It will increase your stength while on, so you will build new muscle, is this new muscle going to disappear after you stop taking creatine, no it will not.

[The Unforsaken]

This is an interesting debate. But do most people agree with the fact that the net gains from creatine alone during a cycle (when normal gains from lifting are subtracted out) makes creatine supplementation worthwhile?

[not_big_enuf]

this isn't tough. creatine helps build muscle by increasing your stamina in the gym, allows you to get in a few extra reps, takes in water into your muscles allowing you gain strength slightly, etc, thus putting more load on your muscles. this in turn will lead to more muscle growth. when you're muscle is rebuilt to handle the previous load, it will be larger.

after you stop taking creatine, you will a little strength and a little stamina because you will lose the water you gain from taking creatine. that muscle that you gained will not be lost. it's there for good. FYI -- you're not actually ADDING more muscle, you're actually making the muscles you have bigger. i know it sounds like the same thing, but it's not.

that's the simple answer without the science. creatine makes you lifte more and lift it for a longer time. each time you lift, you are actually tearing your muscles down and then by resting them and giving them proper nutrition, they heal and grow back bigger. when they grow back bigger, you can then lift more. i'll say it again, stopping creatine will only result in losing some of that water gain (which helps you build more muscle) and you will also have a touch less stamina in the gym. the muscle that you built is permanent.

steroids and prohormones are different than creatine. the reason people lose their gains here is because those substances actually change the way your hormones work and other process inside your body work. when you go off of these substances, your body does not react like it did before and because of it, has different needs until your body resets itself to normal (this is very oversimplified, but you get the point). creatine is NOT like this at all.

[Big Natural]

Thank you very much for that post, for me that sounds like a perfectly scientific explanation of how creatine works .

Thanks again.

[not_big_enuf]

no problem. i could have thrown out ATPs and the scientific crap, but you didn't need that.

good luck with that heavy lifting!

[toughnuts]

Good Post. Very basic lol, but good post.

[PowerSwede]

this isn't tough. creatine helps build muscle by increasing your stamina in the gym, allows you to get in a few extra reps, takes in water into your muscles allowing you gain strength slightly, etc, thus putting more load on your muscles. this in turn will lead to more muscle growth. when you're muscle is rebuilt to handle the previous load, it will be larger.

after you stop taking creatine, you will a little strength and a little stamina because you will lose the water you gain from taking creatine. that muscle that you gained will not be lost. it's there for good. FYI -- you're not actually ADDING more muscle, you're actually making the muscles you have bigger. i know it sounds like the same thing, but it's not.

that's the simple answer without the science. creatine makes you lifte more and lift it for a longer time. each time you lift, you are actually tearing your muscles down and then by resting them and giving them proper nutrition, they heal and grow back bigger. when they grow back bigger, you can then lift more. i'll say it again, stopping creatine will only result in losing some of that water gain (which helps you build more muscle) and you will also have a touch less stamina in the gym. the muscle that you built is permanent.

steroids and prohormones are different than creatine. the reason people lose their gains here is because those substances actually change the way your hormones work and other process inside your body work. when you go off of these substances, your body does not react like it did before and because of it, has different needs until your body resets itself to normal (this is very oversimplified, but you get the point). creatine is NOT like this at all.

This is too obvious IMO, if you lift less weight you'll get smaller muscles, if you lift more weight you'll get bigger muscles.

Nobody is saying that you do not gain strenght and muscle mass from a creatine cycle, the problem is that these gains, just like all other gains, are not permanent.

As long as you are on creatine you have a few things working for you that will build more muscle than normal, the first thing and perhaps the most important part in the long run is the cell voumization which is anabolic in itself, yeah, you read right, cell volumization (as in the swelling of mucles you get from creatine supplementation) is anabolic, the second thing is that recovery time in between repetitions is decreased, the third thing is increased contraction force, the fourth thing is decreased recovery time between workouts.

Now, all of those things are external stimuli caused by the creatine supplementation, the decreased recovery time in between repetitions and overall is anti-catabolic, the increased contraction strenght and cell volumization is anabolic.

So, when you get off creatine you WILL lose 3 out of those 4 and quite a bit of no 4 too, in other words, your body is returning to the state it would have been at this point if you hadn't been taking any creatine, you'll plateu here until your system catches up with the gains you made while on your creatine cycle.

If you can go off creatine without losing strenght, stamina, cell volumization and without increased recovery time then you haven't been gaining anything from the creatine either, the whole deal with creatine is that you increase creatine and creatine phosphate storage to achieve those effects, if you stop supplementing creatine the effects of creatine go away as your body returns to normal creatine/creatine phosphate values (~3.5g/lb of muscle weight).

You don't just go off creatine and keep gaining muscle at the same rate, your gains will be slower or none at all for a while until your system HAS returned to normal, and by that point it won't matter if you have been supplementing creatine or not.

[pu12en12g]

So, when you get off creatine you WILL lose 3 out of those 4 and quite a bit of no 4 too, in other words, your body is returning to the state it would have been at this point if you hadn't been taking any creatine, you'll plateu here until your system catches up with the gains you made while on your creatine cycle.

Yet again... while concentrating on the post-creatine effects, you are ignoring the actual gains made WHILE ON creatine. I don't know how it can possibly be spelled out ANY clearer. This is a very disturbing thread.

[PowerSwede]

Yet again... while concentrating on the post-creatine effects, you are ignoring the actual gains made WHILE ON creatine. I don't know how it can possibly be spelled out ANY clearer. This is a very disturbing thread.

No i am not forgetting that at all, what i am saying that it evens out over a period of time.

The gains that you made while ON creatine are both natural gains and gains you made BECAUSE of the increased performance you have while on creatine, when the increased performance is gone you are going to lose some and then plateu, basically, your body holds you back until you get to the point where you would have been at the same point as if you hadn't been taken creatine.

I don't know how to make it any clearer either, i believe that my first example illustrates my point. While i don't really want what i say to be true i have experienced it and seen too many other experience it not to believe it's true, it is disturbing though, i'll agree on that.

[Big Natural]

Had my first workout again while off creatine and 3 days of rest.

Strength increased slightly though not very much, size is less because of less waterretention, stamnima the same, soreness the same.

No radical stength loss . Still managed to do the same excersizes with the same intensity, reps and even a little more weight.

[RadiatorRT]

Powersuede...your logic is mostly flawed. Creatine helps your muscle perform more work so that it can grow more (ON ITS OWN). Its just there to provide that extra boost to maximize your muscle gains(by donating a phosphate to ATP, which your muscle then hydrolizes to pump the iron). More ATP generated = more energy for the muscles = more gains. Cycling creatine off will diminish the excess water content gained in your muscle cells because of the decrease in osmolarity. Yeah, your muscle will shrink and you will become weaker beacause creatine is no longer there to regenerate your ATP's. But, the honest gains that you made from working your ass off won't disappear unless you quit your workout routine and eat fritos all day. Think about it. The purpose of creatine is not to add muscle DIRECTLY but to increase the amount of muscle you can add on your own.
-Jack

[PowerSwede]

Powersuede...your logic is mostly flawed. Creatine helps your muscle perform more work so that it can grow more (ON ITS OWN). Its just there to provide that extra boost to maximize your muscle gains(by donating a phosphate to ATP, which your muscle then hydrolizes to pump the iron). More ATP generated = more energy for the muscles = more gains. Cycling creatine off will diminish the excess water content gained in your muscle cells because of the decrease in osmolarity. Yeah, your muscle will shrink and you will become weaker beacause creatine is no longer there to regenerate your ATP's. But, the honest gains that you made from working your ass off won't disappear unless you quit your workout routine and eat fritos all day. Think about it. The purpose of creatine is not to add muscle DIRECTLY but to increase the amount of muscle you can add on your own.
-Jack

I've already debated this, my answer is above.

[Rectus Femoris]

PowerSuede I stopped taking creatine after 6 months on, and I've gotten bigger and stronger since. My stamina was a bit off after I first got off of it, but outside of losing a few reps in the beginning I've only gotten stronger.

Stop talking ****.

[PowerSwede]

PowerSuede I stopped taking creatine after 6 months on, and I've gotten bigger and stronger since. My stamina was a bit off after I first got off of it, but outside of losing a few reps in the beginning I've only gotten stronger.

Stop talking ****.

And if i ask you if you gained anything from your creatine intake then of course you were a super-responder so i won't even bother asking.

I know this is something that upsets most people and i was kinda prepared that most people would deny it but that doesn't change what i know about it.

In the last decade i have been a PT off season and i have observed this in so many people, it has been the same for anyone that has come off any supplement that worked or steroids and i know it from personal experience (but then again, i'm one of them there strange people who don't get subcutaneous bloat from mono, only intramuscular so i must be special), i wouldn't argue about it if i didn't know what i was taking about.

So take your attitude and shove it.