Which one is best

[Needing2Gro]

Hey guys I need help deciding what bottle to buy please help me choose the one thats going to help me get bigger faster.

Bottle one:
Norandrostenedione 50mg
Androstenedione 100mg
Androstenediol 50mg
Chrysin 50mg
Lysophosphattidyl choline 75mg


Bottle two: (each capsule contains 550mg stack of 100% pure pharmaceutical grade:
Androstenedione
Tribulus Terrestris
DHEA


thanks for your input

one.

[Dread_MikeC]

Bottle 1 Most Def. It Not Only Has The Pro Hormone But It Takes Care of Any Build Up In Your Liver And Controls Your Estrogen As Well. Who makes That by The Way?

[Big Cat]

Good lord, neither. Both contain two prohormones quite prone to side-effects : androstendione and 19Norandrostenedione. Not only are both notably weaker precursors (3 times lower yield) than their diol counterparts, andro is quiote prone to cause estrogenic side-effects and 19Nor is quite prone to cause androgenic side-effects like acne and hair loss. To date its also the only PH that made me lose some hair.

Bottle two contains DHEA and trib. DHEA is fairly inactive with a final yield of 0.35% testosterone (compared to 15.76% for 4AD) and is very prone to side-effects. 4AD is usually taken in 900-1200 mg doses, so compare the amount of test you get and then think of how much DHEA you need to get the same. In the nature of 30 grams per day, whilst you can only convert about 3 grams at best. So not worth it. No self-respecting bodybuilder would use DHEA. Tribulus, well, what can one say ? Studies show conclusively that trib has no effect on lean body mass and no effect on serum testosterone levels. It has no other functional use than to give you a boner. So if you are impotent its good, if not you don't need it in the least.

The first bottle contains chrysin. Chrysin can indeed block 20-30% of the aromatase enzyme, lessening the amount of estrogen. This is definitely needed with crappy prohormones like andro. On the other hand chrysin also blocks 30-40% of the conversion enzymes needed to activate prohormones. In other words, while you block a little estrogen (not enough to make a diff) you also keep yourself from 30-40% more gains. Sounds like a bad trade-off when simply using a better prohormone is a better option.

In other words, i'll say it again : 80% of all stacked PH products are utter, utter crap. You would be much better of using one or more individual quality products (4AD, Nor-diol, 1,4-andro, 1AD, 5AA, 3-alpha, 1-test) and stacking them yourself than waste your money and your health on such bull****. Here is some reading for you :

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm

[ironman57]

NOTHING TO DO WITH PRO HORMONRS, HEY BIG CAT, WHY IS WILLIAM LISTED AS A MOD? IS THAT RIGHT? I JUST NEVER SEEN HIM HERE.

[Big Cat]

He's our new teen moderator, he has been for a few weeks now.

[ironman57]

OH, OK. WELL THATS COOL THEN! GOOD LUCK AS A MOD THEN, TO HIM.

[str8flexed]

I agree with BC they are both crap. BC did you see a new study on chrysin that was published that showed it didn't work at all on the cellular level. I believe it worked in the test tube but on the cellular level I believe it has trouble gaining entry into the cell, I'll see if I can find the study.
Peace

[Big Cat]

Since a lot of estrogen receptors are located on the cell its not a real problem, but as you indicated most studies were done in vitro. And its quite well known that the receptors in one part of the body don't show the same affinity or effect as those in other parts of the body, so its quite logical that the chrysin would have less affinity in the muscle tissue, where aromatase concentration is quite small.

[Needing2Gro]

If Chrysin doesnt really work would it be better to take Chrysin and Saw Palmetto together?

one.

[Dread_MikeC]

See The Only Problem With That Is They Each Serve A Different Purpose Chrysin Is For regulating Estrogen And Progesterone And Saw Palmetto Is For Keeping A Healthy Prostate

[Needing2Gro]

ok thanks for clearing that up. so i guess it would be ok to take both at the same time?

[Manteca]

yes, but why do you care about your prostate any who? can you bust a nut, yes, alright then it is intact.

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by Needing2Gro
If Chrysin doesnt really work would it be better to take Chrysin and Saw Palmetto together?

one.

If x doesn't work, and y doesn't work, how about using them together ? You know how that sounds right ? Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by Dread_MikeC
See The Only Problem With That Is They Each Serve A Different Purpose Chrysin Is For regulating Estrogen And Progesterone And Saw Palmetto Is For Keeping A Healthy Prostate

Dude, I'm so not kidding, quit talking out of your ass. Chrysin cannot, will not bind to the progesterone receptor. Its not structurally capable and it has no affinity for it. As str8 said, its probably likely that in muscle tissue the chrysin even shows weaker affinity for aromatase than the already weak 20-30% documented in vitro.

[Needing2Gro]

Alright man, Ill leave that **** on the shelf, i wish i woulda found this out a long time ago i bought like 3 bottles in the last couple of months wasted money.

Thanks everyone.