Bodybuilding causes Osteoarthritis?

[Reano]

Hey Guys!
I was just on the T-nation site and one of their main guys stated that 'if you lift for 20 years, you're probably looking at osteo'! (It's in their 'Old Farts' think tank forum). Anyone know of some studies or similar to research this? Matt Furey, of Combat Conditioning fame, rips on weight training also so I may actually forget the weights if Osteo is in the future.

Any feedback greatly appreciated!!

[visionbuilder]

Got nothin to say, but he can BITE ME!!
Sorry no too scientific, but heartfelt.
Vision

[kmax]

Can you post the link ?

[jaguarr]

Yes, please post the link so we can see what he's really saying, here.

Thanks,
jag

[bodyrokk]

Yeah so!!!! you still look better than all the other geezers in the old folks home!!!

[A.FreeRadical]

I have heard that resistance training and exercise in general is good for the bones. Of course, if you already have the disease, lifting might not be too good.

*
aA.FreeRadical a
Visit my plan for 8% bf http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=382697

[Reano]

Here's the link: www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do

The man seems quite knowledgeable. His statement is near the end of his input.

[Reano]

I tried the link and it goes to T-Nation but not the article. If you go to their site and search Old Farts or Lonnie Lowery, it should go there.

[Baldsnake]

You have got to be kidding!! My dad had a liitle Osteo and all he did was swing a golf club and play Gin Rummy. I have the same condition...no more...no less and have squatted, heavy leg presses, climb stairs with two 45 plates, etc, etc, twice a week since my 40th birthday. Now I did tear both Meniscus and had surgery...due to skiing and jogging injuries. I take Glucosamine and Condroitin and pound away. Chit...my joints hurt when I don't train!

Driving a car exposes you to the risks of having a car accident. The more you drive the more you are at risk.

[~*IronBelle*~]

Your only looking at osteo if your not balancing your workouts. As with anything, you need to work every muscle, not just some. Otherwise you get major imbalances and stress on joints = osteo.

[Bad Dog]

After hearing that lifting causes osteoarthritis the Bad-dog covers his mouth and coughs a muffled. Bull****!

[jaguarr]

Well, I gave up on trying to find that article. That has to be one of the most disorganized sites I've ever seen, though they sure are keen to sell me a bunch of stuff going by all the ads they have there. That said, sounds like a load of crap to me, based on what little of his argument was posted here in this thread.

jag

[Laurie]

I have always read lifting does the opposite...it builds bone density. Not take it away.

Knew some older women in my college classes who lifted for the therapy it gave Because they had Osteo.

But having an adequate diet is needed as well. Suppliments will help too.

[vol]

'if you lift for 20 years, you're probably looking at osteo'!

Ahhh, "probably" ….what does "probably mean"?

Obviously some 40-year old lifters are going to have arthritis, some aren’t. The question should be, does lifting increase your risk of arthritis and if so, how much?

The best way to answer this would be to take a group of people, randomly assign them to either lift for 20 years or not, then check them all for arthritis. For obvious reasons this would be a difficult and expensive study and to my knowledge has never been done.

So we’re left with retrospective studies, where you either (1) examine a group of people with arthritis and ask them if they have lifted previously, or (2) examine a group of liters, see how many have arthritis and compare them to some other group. Any retrospective approach has potential problems, which we could discuss if anyone is interested.

But here are two examples:

A study by Kujala looked at 117 male former top-level athletes (age range 45-68 years) who had participated in sports activities with distinctly different loading conditions: 28 long-distance runners, 31 soccer players, 29 weight lifters, and 29 shooters. Based on examinations and x-rays, knee osteroarthritis was found in 14% of the runners, 29% of the soccer players, 31% of the weight lifters and 3% of the shooters. Analysis of the results identified several risk factors for knee arthritis (in decreasing importance): previous knee injuries, high body mass index at the age of 20, participation in heavy work, kneeling or squatting work, and participating in soccer. The increase risk in weight lifters was attributable to high body mass.

Fitzgerald and McLatchie carried out a similar study in 25 experienced weight lifters. Significant degenerative changes were found in five lifters (20%), which was not different than the general population within the same age group. There were more degenerative changes found in Olympic style weight lifters (30.7%) than in power lifters (8.3%).



Kujala UM, et al. Arthritis Rheum. Knee osteoarthritis in former runners, soccer players, weight lifters, and shooters. 1995 Apr;38(4):539-46.

Fitzgerald B, McLatchie GR. Degenerative joint disease in weight-lifters. Fact or fiction? Br J Sports Med. 1980 Jul;14(2-3):97-101.

[4amWorkouts]

From WebMD:

What Causes Osteoarthritis?
There are several factors that increase a person's chances of developing osteoarthritis. These include:

Heredity. Some people have an inherited defect in one of the genes responsible for making cartilage. This causes defective cartilage, which leads to more rapid deterioration of joints. People born with joint abnormalities are more likely to develop osteoarthritis, and those born with an abnormality of the spine (such as scoliosis or curvature of the spine) are more likely to develop osteoarthritis of the spine.

Obesity. Obesity increases the risk for osteoarthritis of the knee and hip. Maintaining ideal weight or losing excess weight may help prevent osteoarthritis of the knee and hip or decrease the rate of progression once osteoarthritis is established.

Injury. Injuries contribute to the development of osteoarthritis. For example, athletes who have knee-related injuries may be at higher risk of developing osteoarthritis of the knee. In addition, people who have had a severe back injury may be predisposed to develop osteoarthritis of the spine. People who have had a broken bone near a joint are prone to develop osteoarthritis in that joint.

Joint Overuse. Overuse of certain joints increases the risk of developing osteoarthritis. For example, people in jobs requiring repeated bending of the knee are at increased risk for developing osteoarthritis of the knee.

[Reano]

Good responses! Bump!

[~*IronBelle*~]

Well for those that have osteoarthritis, it is not going to do them any good whatsoever believing that it was a virus that caused the disease when it is quite obviously in front of our noses what brings on early osteoarthritis. I think any Doctor suggesting it is a virus needs to be struck off the books to be honest.

We consist of 70% water. This means your diet needs to be 70% water. This does NOT mean drinking 70% water...it means eating foods with a LOT of water in. Preferably foods unprocessed. Cook a veggie and you kill the enymes in it. Eating a lot of raw veggies in your diet therefore is not only going to serve your fluid needs but address the enzymes needed for a healthy body. MOST of the diseases that we have now are down to eating concentrated foods which are technically dead enzyme wise. Line up the foods you eat today and figure out whether it is a dead or living food and understand that if is is dead (cooked and processed) you may be over loading your body. THAT'S what causes osteoarthritis.
When you think about it almost every dead food you could eat is acid forming and isnt exactly a good way to help your body retain calcium--even if it has calcium in it. GREENS contain stacks of calcium and thats why a lot of people are suffering osteoarthritis earlier and earlier. We've moved away from the healthy meat and three veggies and eat a lot of processed and packaged crap. That's why.

[vol]

I think any Doctor suggesting it is a virus needs to be struck off the books to be honest.

Actually viral infections are well recognized causes of arthritis. These include parvovirus B19, rubella, retroviruses and hepatitis A, B, and C. And immune mediated response to viruses may be involved in the cause of other types of arthritis, such as rheumatoid arthritis.

Ytterberg SR: Viral arthritis. Curr Opin Rheumatol 1999 Jul; 11(4): 275-80

On the other hand...

Cook a veggie and you kill the enymes in it. Eating a lot of raw veggies in your diet therefore is not only going to serve your fluid needs but address the enzymes needed for a healthy body. MOST of the diseases that we have now are down to eating concentrated foods which are technically dead enzyme wise. Line up the foods you eat today and figure out whether it is a dead or living food and understand that if is is dead (cooked and processed) you may be over loading your body. THAT'S what causes osteoarthritis.

I would be interested in any credible scientific studies you could cite supporting this claim.

[~*IronBelle*~]

Do your research.

We're talking osteo not rheumatoid. Got any viable studies about it being specifically caused by a virus and not Auto Immune Disease of some sort?

[~*IronBelle*~]

Most people that have a poor immune system and cannot fight virus often have a really bad diet toboot. So I'd imagine it would be very difficult to say which of those caused the arthiritis. All I can say is I had the beginnings of it and altered this by changing my diet and working on my bone density and calcium uptake, instead of feeling helpless and believing it was out of my control.
They now know what makes it much worse ...corticosteroid treatments...and the reason why people become arthritic in 'other' joints shortly after it is diagnosed in one area of the body is due to high levels of corticosteroid in the body. At that point bone loss occurs everywhere at a rapid rate not just the joint you have it in.
Studies show this. Goto Pubmed and slap in cortisol and arthritis and bone density and it'll throw up tons for you.

You should also know that when the body is fighting a virus the number one hormone (fatal to bone density) to be raised due to the body being under stress in illness is cortisol. Effectively that is like being on cortisone treatment in that when cortisol is raised over prolonged periods, the side-effects are just the same as if you were taking the drug.

So it is easy to interpret the virus as the cause of the arthiritis when it is obviously the raised cortisol levels and stress in the body causing the arthritis. ANYONE with raised cortisol levels needs to be resting their nervous system and treating themselves holistically to lower cortisol levels. They also need to feed their body the type of foods that strengthen it and feed it and help fight the virus they have or atleast keep them on an even keel. They are at a distinct disadvantage due to high cortisol levels and their body constantly fighting the virus or illness so naturally they need to be doing the healthiest things for their body that they possibly can. They need higher doses of calcium--that means higher proportion of greens etc in diet. Fruit and veggies contain not just enzymes but vitamins. The live molecules in vegetables have effects on the body. Vitmain C by FACT lowers cortisol. You can take glutamine and that'll help too.
I think you've all heard the saying "An apple a day etc? Well it is more like, "An apple, three veggies and some greens a day keeps the Doctor away."

Lightly steam your veggies and eat salads with clean greens in-raw.
Ironically what causes allergy and disease in the western world is wheat and dairy more often than not and most people develop disease eventually due to one or other food or a build up of allergens such as that if a large amount of it is consumed in relation to vegetables. You see some diets sometimes and they have NO veggies in whatsoever--NO live foods. Just protein, whey, fat etc etc. I've seen it anyway. I would have thought it was obvious and didn't really need explanation that most vitamins and minerals are from live foods. A lot of it is spoiled when it is processed, cooked and the life is literally taken out of it. Vitmain levels are reduced with cooking and enzymes are completely killed at certain high temps so you may as well kisss goodbye to the majority of good properties in the food your eating if you've zapped it in a microwave lol. It especially happens in the canning process too etc.

[JacobS]

I think that between Vol's and 4amWorkouts's post's I kind of get it. One thing that bodybuilding does not do is increase the surface area of our joints. So, the more you weigh the more weight/unit of surface area.

I am 5'8" and 190lbs, a good 25lbs into an overweight BMI for my height. My hips and knees have to support at least 25lbs more than someone with a 'normal' BMI while I am standing and with every step I take.

It was interesting to note that Olympic lifters had problems at a rate that was nearly four times higher than power lifters. I don't know much about either of these. I would suppose that with power lifters there is a greater force applied to their joints for a shorter period of time than for Olympic lifters. Maybe this has something to do with it. But as I know little about how one trains for these two, it might be the training methods that make for the difference.

I had a problem with squats and hip pain a few years ago. And while it may have been form, I have laid off of squats and all complex power lifts since then. After six months or so, I was fine. It was a minor pain, kinda like minor lower back pain, but it scared the heck out of me.

I know that the question of squats can be a religious one. I figure I get my GH from zone3 cardio work (I also do some zone 4 intervals). I prefer ellipticals for their low impact and light knee action (I have a Vision recumbent bike at home).

This 48 year old wants to save his knees and hips for hiking, mountain biking, occasional trail running and supporting the 200lbs I hope to become. I don't dick around with my joints in the gym (that's a technical term).

If you are concerned about this, then consider avoiding heavy compound lifts. If you aren't, go for it. If you are comitted to these lifts, then don't ponder the question. In any event, I don't think there is a reason to not body build or weight train here. At 200lbs, I will be three pounds into an obese BMI for my height. I think I will stop there. We will see.

BTW, I don't doubt that diet plays a role here, but even so, the pounding our joints take can't be dismissed as an issue. No diet is going to save a 300lb center from problems later in life.

[goatscrot]

Line up the foods you eat today and figure out whether it is a dead or living food and understand that if is is dead (cooked and processed) you may be over loading your body. THAT'S what causes osteoarthritis.

What? Overloading your body with "dead" food causes osteoarthritis? Whatever you say, belle. I'm sorry I missed that post a few weeks back.

On the topic, however.....has anyone here had good results with regular supplementation of chondroitin? Thanks in advance.