Ohtani: Greatest half season ever?

[Phil9]

Angels have 3 more games but his stats are phucking insane.


Leading MLB in HRs (31)

4th in RBIs (68)

12th in BA (.296) in an era where batting averages are plummeting.

4th in pitching strikeouts (132)

A solid 7-4 record with a 3.32 ERA for a .500 team.



GOAT gonna GOAT?

[Evolutionary1]

Baseball making a comeback?

[AngryLanklet]

Golden bull taking over brutal

[AngryLanklet]

[SoutheastBeast1]

It's not even the greatest first half this year, let alone ever


Ronald Acuna

.333 avg. (2nd in MLB)
.997 OPS (2nd in MLB)
41 SB (2nd in MLB)
78 Runs (1st in MLB)
21 HRs (10th in MLB)


I want to also point out that while yeah Ohtani will pitch once every 5 days, he doesn't bother to play defense the other days he's in the lineup and DH's instead. Meanwhile Acuna plays the field.

The pitching would be impressive if he was also a full time player the other days but instead he chooses to DH. Kind of minimizes the value of him pitching every 5 days when you really think about it. If it comes at the expense of a good fielder playing the field you still make that trade-off but it's not as awesome as some of you make it out to be.

DH has always been half of a player. So Ohtani is at best playing 1.5 positions... not 2 positions.

Acuna > Ohtani

[wildchild11]

It's not even the greatest first half this year, let alone ever


Ronald Acuna

.333 avg. (2nd in MLB)
.997 OPS (2nd in MLB)
41 SB (2nd in MLB)
78 Runs (1st in MLB)
21 HRs (10th in MLB)


I want to also point out that while yeah Ohtani will pitch once every 5 days, he doesn't bother to play defense the other days he's in the lineup and DH's instead. Meanwhile Acuna plays the field.

The pitching would be impressive if he was also a full time player the other days but instead he chooses to DH. Kind of minimizes the value of him pitching every 5 days when you really think about it. If it comes at the expense of a good fielder playing the field you still make that trade-off but it's not as awesome as some of you make it out to be.

DH has always been half of a player. So Ohtani is at best playing 1.5 positions... not 2 positions.

Acuna > Ohtani

Ok as a baseball noob can you explain why everybody hyping Ohtani like this

[SoutheastBeast1]

Ok as a baseball noob can you explain why everybody hyping Ohtani like this

Because he pitches and hits very well and you just don't see players doing both so it's very unique. He is definitely special and deserves the praise so don't get me wrong I'm not hating. He's like, the second best player to Acuna lmao.

Seriously though if he puts up the type of year like he's having every year for the next 5-10 years it will be a very remarkable career unlike anything that's been seen. I won't deny that in the slightest. He probably won't be anything special as just a pitcher or just a hitter, all-star caliber in both (which is still very good) but if looking at them independently you'll likely see better pitchers and hitters over a similar stretch. But the combo of both is what will be the special thing.

Like, you compare him to Bonds as a hitter and he gets sh*t on. He; you compare him to Judge and Acuna and I'd rather have both of them at the plate over Ohtani.

Likewise you compare him to Degrom (when healthy) or Scherzer/Kershaw in their prime all of them were better pitchers.

It's the combo of what he can do that has so many ppl in awe. He can do a little bit of everything very well. I wouldn't say he does anything great though. Like, you think stolen bases and immediately think Ricky Henderson was something amazing. Home runs obviously Bonds and Hank Aaron stand out. And McGwire to some extent too. You think general hitting skills, Tony Gwynn and Ted Williams were insanely knowledgable. On the pitching side, the command/location no one did it better than Greg Maddux. Strikeouts - Nolan Ryan was absolutely filthy... there's probably some others too but he's the one who comes to my mind. Pedro Martinez is probably in there. Mariano Rivera's ability to be lights out closing games. Defensively you think about guys like Andruw Jones, Ozzie Smith, Roberto Alomar, etc.

With Ohtani there's nothing to point to and say, "wow, that's unlike anything anyone else can do with that element of the game." He does everything good, but nothing great.

[imiscubb]

It's not even the greatest first half this year, let alone ever


Ronald Acuna

.333 avg. (2nd in MLB)
.997 OPS (2nd in MLB)
41 SB (2nd in MLB)
78 Runs (1st in MLB)
21 HRs (10th in MLB)


I want to also point out that while yeah Ohtani will pitch once every 5 days, he doesn't bother to play defense the other days he's in the lineup and DH's instead. Meanwhile Acuna plays the field.

The pitching would be impressive if he was also a full time player the other days but instead he chooses to DH. Kind of minimizes the value of him pitching every 5 days when you really think about it. If it comes at the expense of a good fielder playing the field you still make that trade-off but it's not as awesome as some of you make it out to be.

DH has always been half of a player. So Ohtani is at best playing 1.5 positions... not 2 positions.

Acuna > Ohtani

dis nikka wants ohtani to play pitcher and catcher lmao
teleporting between the mound and the batter box as the pitch is thrown

[SoutheastBeast1]

dis nikka wants ohtani to play pitcher and catcher lmao
teleporting between the mound and the batter box as the pitch is thrown

You realize I'm talking about on the days he isn't pitching? He doesn't play in the field those days. If he was a true 2-way player the days he doesn't pitch he would would play defense like any other position player.

He's a DH who pitches. The only difference between what he does and what a National League pitcher used to do is that he'll also bat on the days he doesn't pitch. And he's a better hitter than NL pitchers. Not saying he isn't good, but if pitchers actually tried to work on hitting back before the NL adopted the DH this wouldn't be so shocking to everyone.

Truthfully, Mike Hampton and Dontrelle Willis probably could have both DH'd and been average hitters. They wouldn't have been all-star hitters like Ohtani, but both of them would have been serviceable at the DH spot. People think Ohtani doing both is unheard of. It's really not. No one just bothered to put in the effort to do both and/or weren't all-star level talent at each so they prioritized one over the other. Plenty of pitchers could have been average hitters who DH'd though. It just wasn't worth it for teams to run an average hitter out there who was being paid to pitch. An average hitter who wasn't a pitcher was easy enough to find as a replacement without the risk of losing your pitcher to an injury.

[jamiejammer]

dis nikka wants ohtani to play pitcher and catcher lmao
teleporting between the mound and the batter box as the pitch is thrown

Imagine being the only guy in Major League history to do what he's doing, and it being considered "not enough" lol. This guy is hilarious saying he needs to play defense as well or it's not that impressive. There are pitchers who have said they feel exhausted like they've been hit by a ton of bricks the day after pitching, and he's out there leading the league in homers. Thanks for the laugh brah.

[SoutheastBeast1]

Imagine being the only guy in Major League history to do what he's doing, and it being considered "not enough" lol. This guy is hilarious saying he needs to play defense as well or it's not that impressive. There are pitchers who have said they feel exhausted like they've been hit by a ton of bricks the day after pitching, and he's out there leading the league in homers. Thanks for the laugh brah.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/k9pQkbS.png[img]

Where did I say that you dip f*ck?

He is definitely special and deserves the praise so don't get me wrong I'm not hating.
.

Stay mad you retard




Most of you can't handle any of the slightest criticism toward your opinion is all. The reality is he's not doing both. That's a fact. He's a DH who pitches which is still. special but stop giving him credit for something he's not doing. I've already commented numerous times what he's doing is special, so everyone can calm down.

Am I wrong in saying he's a DH who pitches though? I got some bad news that's not an opinion by stating that.

Even if you want to be one of those people who lives and dies by WAR he's not actually that far in front of Acuna while apparently doing both that has you all so mesmerized. Acuna's WAR is 4.8 and Ohtani's is 5.7. And that's the value that Acuna brings without even the opportunity of being a starting pitcher. So if the Braves have Acuna filling one a spot in the batting order, all they have to do is find a pitcher who can post a 1.0 WAR to take that 5th turn in the rotation (because someone is going to take it) then the Braves are better off than having Ohtani take Acuna's lineup spot and let's say Elder's rotation spot since he's the 5th guy and has a 1.7 WAR.

Trading Acuna for Ohtani straight up would be a net negative for the Braves. They lose the full value of Acuna then also bump Elder from the mound to make room for Ohtani. And that's ignoring contract, where the Braves pay half as much for the Acuna/Elder combo... lol

P.S.

Ohtani's ERA since April is 4.07

Ohtani isn't even guaranteed to finish with a WAR above Acuna. He should because he's doing both. But the fact it's relatively close since Acuna is just a traditional player says enough to know Ohtani is good but not great.

Aaron Judge had an 11.5 WAR last year. Ohtani isn't even on pace to surpass Judge's season. How about some of you take off your blinders and put his performance into some perspective instead of being ph aggots. What he's doing is cool, and that's about the extent of it.

Mookie Betts 2018 season with a 10.5 WAR is also in line with the type of season Ohtani is having.

Ohtani's value isn't unheard of, sorry to be the one to burst everyone's bubble and be the voice of reason here. He's not even guaranteed to have the. best season an Angels player has ever had. Trout's 2012 and 2013 are within reach but he's not going to blow past them.



Ciffs
-Acuna > Ohtani because he's doing 1 position exceptionally as opposed to filling up 2 positions with an above average job. Acuna is more efficient in the value he brings. The spot he doesn't occupy is then filled by someone else to bring in value themselves

[SoutheastBeast1]

Keep in mind the thread title is "Greatest half season ever" and it's not. It's not even Top 5 greatest half season ever. Bonds alone has like 3 half-seasons by himself that are better.

In recent years Judge and Betts are better. Trout's 2012 and 2013 are in the running for being equally as good as Ohtani if you want to narrow all the way to the Angels specifically.

Not sure why all of you get so rustled when I come in here and point out the obvious facts that, while neat, no it's not the greatest half season or season or whatever. You all are letting the media hype spin you in circles which is sad then get mad when I try to set you straight with facts.

[imiscubb]

Where did I say that you dip f*ck?



Stay mad you retard




Most of you can't handle any of the slightest criticism toward your opinion is all. The reality is he's not doing both. That's a fact. He's a DH who pitches which is still. special but stop giving him credit for something he's not doing. I've already commented numerous times what he's doing is special, so everyone can calm down.

Am I wrong in saying he's a DH who pitches though? I got some bad news that's not an opinion by stating that.

Even if you want to be one of those people who lives and dies by WAR he's not actually that far in front of Acuna while apparently doing both that has you all so mesmerized. Acuna's WAR is 4.8 and Ohtani's is 5.7. And that's the value that Acuna brings without even the opportunity of being a starting pitcher. So if the Braves have Acuna filling one a spot in the batting order, all they have to do is find a pitcher who can post a 1.0 WAR to take that 5th turn in the rotation (because someone is going to take it) then the Braves are better off than having Ohtani take Acuna's lineup spot and let's say Elder's rotation spot since he's the 5th guy and has a 1.7 WAR.

Trading Acuna for Ohtani straight up would be a net negative for the Braves. They lose the full value of Acuna then also bump Elder from the mound to make room for Ohtani. And that's ignoring contract, where the Braves pay half as much for the Acuna/Elder combo... lol

P.S.

Ohtani's ERA since April is 4.07

Ohtani isn't even guaranteed to finish with a WAR above Acuna. He should because he's doing both. But the fact it's relatively close since Acuna is just a traditional player says enough to know Ohtani is good but not great.

Aaron Judge had an 11.5 WAR last year. Ohtani isn't even on pace to surpass Judge's season. How about some of you take off your blinders and put his performance into some perspective instead of being ph aggots. What he's doing is cool, and that's about the extent of it.

Mookie Betts 2018 season with a 10.5 WAR is also in line with the type of season Ohtani is having.

Ohtani's value isn't unheard of, sorry to be the one to burst everyone's bubble and be the voice of reason here. He's not even guaranteed to have the. best season an Angels player has ever had. Trout's 2012 and 2013 are within reach but he's not going to blow past them.



Ciffs
-Acuna > Ohtani because he's doing 1 position exceptionally as opposed to filling up 2 positions with an above average job. Acuna is more efficient in the value he brings. The spot he doesn't occupy is then filled by someone else to bring in value themselves

Tl;dr

Ohtani brings home more runners than Acuna
Ohtani has a higher OPS percentage than Acuna
Ohtani is top 5 in strikeouts as a pitcher, than Acuna
Ohtani is top 5 in k/9 ratio as a pitcher, than Acuna

Next you're going to tell us how David Ortiz is greater than Acuna because he actually DH'd and played a defensive fielding position(periodically) unlike Ohtani

[SillieBazzillie]

Dude's a top 5+ hitter and a top 10+ plus pitcher.

Bonds did nothing comparable other than having betting hitting stats. Ohtani's pitching alone would make him one of the most valuable players in baseball.

We've never seen anything like what Ohtani is doing these last few years.

[Phil9]

It can be argued if it's the greatest half-season ever but it's absurd to claim Acuna is having a better season. Being a successful pitcher is way more important than playing well on defense in the outfield. Ohtani is already one of the best hitters in the MLB. He'd probably be even better as a pitcher if he just played and focused on that position like every other pitcher does.



This coming from a big Braves fan since I was about 5-6.

[SoutheastBeast1]

Dude's a top 5+ hitter and a top 10+ plus pitcher.

Bonds did nothing comparable other than having betting hitting stats. Ohtani's pitching alone would make him one of the most valuable players in baseball.

We've never seen anything like what Ohtani is doing these last few years.

So in other words I can literally say Ohtani has never done anything comparable to Bonds as much as you can say Bonds has never done anything comparable to Ohtani

Bonds never did anything comparable to Pedro Martinez either. So congrats on pointing out useless sh*t.

Bonds has multiple season where his WAR sh*ts on anything Ohtani is projected toward this season. But Ohtani is the better player just because he's pitching and hitting? So you'd rather have the guy who brings less level to your team. You're more impressed by that just because he's pitching and hitting? LMAO. Greg Maddux hit and pitched too, the hitting just wasn't good enough to factor in to his overall value worth a damn. He still did it though. Ohtani is better at the hitting, but still not enough to generate more value than Bonds... it's no different than Greg Maddux.

You guys act like a pitcher has never stepped into the batters box..... uhhh what??? Explain how he's more impressive than Bonds. It literally makes no sense. Saying he pitches and hits isn't an argument. Every pitcher in the NL hit and pitched back in the day. The point is none of them including Ohtani managed to create enough value between both their hitting and pitching to surpass the value Bonds brought simply by stepping up to the plate.

That's not even an opinion. It's a f*cking fact backed by a real statistic.

Sure Ohtani has more value than Acuna and I'm homering to some extent with that one (I'm going to bold this line since it will go over most of your heads. But I can still make a case Acuna + Elder is better for the Braves than Ohtani. So bringing Ohtani over in a swap for Acuna which also see's him remove Elder from the rotation in the process would be worse for Atlanta. That's also not really an opinion. He's consuming 2 positions and not doing either well enough that removing someone like Acuna who is bringing tremendous value to 1 position is worth it.

Also to the dude who started running his mouth about Ohtani driving in more runs than Acuna you do f*cking know Acuna bats in the leadoff spot, right? LOL at brings in more runners. I would f*cking hope so.

This is like me boasting Acuna scores more runs. But you know I'll take it a step further and make this an even game since they bat in different spots in the lineup and combine runs and RBIs. Turns out, Acuna has the edge there, 134 to 133. Acuna has also stolen 40+ bases to Ohtani's pathetic 11

Oh by the way, Acuna is the only player in MLB history to ever hit 20 HRs, steal 40 bases, and drive in 50 runs by the All-Star break. So if you want to talk about seeing something never before done, looks like Acuna can stake a claim to first half never before seen as well as Ohtani can in that category as well.

And he actually has his team positioned in first place whereas Ohtani can't even get his above .500 lmao

[SoutheastBeast1]

Ohtani's pitching alone would make him one of the most valuable players in baseball..

You see this is where some of you completely have your head up your ass.

Ohtani wouldn't even make the All-Star team based on his pitching alone. I can say this because he's not even borderline All-star worthy as just a pitcher.

Valdez
McClanahan
Eovaldi
Cole
Castillo
Gray
Gausman

These are your AL starters worthy of an All-Star bid for pitching. At best he gets named as a replacement like Pablo Lopez did this year. Although I'm not sure why Pablo Lopez was named over Tyler Wells, unless Wells also wasn't eligible (not sure when he last pitched), but he would be the last man in over both Lopez or Ohtani if we wanted to assemble our AL pitching roster properly.


Edit:

Tyler Wells pitched Saturday, so that's why he wasn't named. See, there's literally a host of guys lined up ahead of Ohtani making the team as an AS pitcher lmao

He only has a shot after a bunch of technicalities.

[imiscubb]

Oh by the way, Acuna is the only player in MLB history to ever hit 20 HRs, steal 40 bases, and drive in 50 runs by the All-Star break. So if you want to talk about seeing something never before done, looks like Acuna can stake a claim to first half never before seen as well as Ohtani can in that category as well.

Ohtani is the only player in MLB history to record a 13-strikeout game as a pitcher and an eight-RBI game as a hitter

[Murph0408]

he's a great player. everyone's over-doing it because that's how people do things now. chris broussard gets on his radio show and regularly refers to Shohei as the "best player of all time" already. just like guys saying Victor Wembanyama is the "greatest prospect in sports history"

people just desperately want to be a part of something. i want to see what Ohtani does in a competitive environment. baseball is a completely different game to play when there's nothing at stake in terms of the standings or a playoff spot. even as we speak the Angels are 1-9 in their last 10 and 5 games out of the third wild card spot.

SouthEast brings up fair points about defense. Barry Bonds won 8 gold gloves. does that mean SO 'needs' to play the outfield? no, but it counts against him when saying he's having the best half-season in history. just something to consider before crowning a guy.

[SoutheastBeast1]

Ohtani is the only player in MLB history to record a 13-strikeout game as a pitcher and an eight-RBI game as a hitter

Ohtani is now 7-5 on the year with 6 starts giving up 4+ runs

The only quality starts he's had this year have come against the following. Team offensive rank based on OPS in parenthesis:
1. Oakland (30th)
2. Seattle (23rd)
3. Washington (19th)
4. Kansas City (29th)
5. Houston (16th)
6. Minnesota (21st)
7. Miami (15th)
8. Texas (2nd)
9. LAD (3rd)
10. CWS (27th)


So congrats on pitching well against 2 good teams for the entire year. His upcoming schedule is equally weak with NYY (22nd), PIT ( 24th), and DET (27th) next in line.

he's a great player. everyone's over-doing it because that's how people do things now. chris broussard gets on his radio show and regularly refers to Shohei as the "best player of all time" already. just like guys saying Victor Wembanyama is the "greatest prospect in sports history"

people just desperately want to be a part of something. i want to see what Ohtani does in a competitive environment. baseball is a completely different game to play when there's nothing at stake in terms of the standings or a playoff spot. even as we speak the Angels are 1-9 in their last 10 and 5 games out of the third wild card spot.

SouthEast brings up fair points about defense. Barry Bonds won 8 gold gloves. does that mean SO 'needs' to play the outfield? no, but it counts against him when saying he's having the best half-season in history. just something to consider before crowning a guy.

Thank you.

I'm really not trying to hate on him. I've already said he's a very unique guy and certainly a very good player. It's just crazy how carried away everyone gets.

[IonZephyr]

You see this is where some of you completely have your head up your ass.

Ohtani wouldn't even make the All-Star team based on his pitching alone. I can say this because he's not even borderline All-star worthy as just a pitcher.

Valdez
McClanahan
Eovaldi
Cole
Castillo
Gray
Gausman

These are your AL starters worthy of an All-Star bid for pitching. At best he gets named as a replacement like Pablo Lopez did this year. Although I'm not sure why Pablo Lopez was named over Tyler Wells, unless Wells also wasn't eligible (not sure when he last pitched), but he would be the last man in over both Lopez or Ohtani if we wanted to assemble our AL pitching roster properly.


Edit:

Tyler Wells pitched Saturday, so that's why he wasn't named. See, there's literally a host of guys lined up ahead of Ohtani making the team as an AS pitcher lmao

He only has a shot after a bunch of technicalities.

i like ONLY McClanahan, Cole, Framber, Gausman (in 2023) over Ohtani, pitching-wise.

lol'd at tyler wells. hes benefitting from how surprisingly good the orioles have been this year... those HR/9 (home runs allowed per game)

[x-trainer ben]

walk off homer against the Yankees last night.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/mlb...-bat-flip.html

current stats:

https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/shohei...i-player-stats

[SillieBazzillie]

Complete game 1 hit shutout in game 1. Two homers in game 2.

Just lol at trying to compare this dude to anyone. No one has ever had a season like this dude is.

[x-trainer ben]

current stats, lawd!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...htansh01.shtml

[IonZephyr]

current stats, lawd!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...htansh01.shtml

80+ Runs and RBI on this subpar angels team is impressive in regards to his hit counting stats fs

[x-trainer ben]

Forget our onions for a sec,
I asked a 75 year old lifetime baseball fan, and an 86 year old fan about Ohtani and both old men mentioned Babe Ruth and how it is amazing to them.
You just don't see this often.