Suppose only 4 excersises are done..

[dethmetalanimal]

My Two Month Progress
(Although I've Taken Out And Added A Few Things Since I Started)


Squat: 165 lbs. > 195 lbs.
Incline Bench: 115 lbs.> 150 lbs.
BB Rows: 85 lbs. > 180 lbs.

T-Bar Deads: 215 lbs. > 255 lbs.
Dips: BW > 15 lbs.
Clean & Press: 85 lbs. > 115 lbs.

Traditional Deads: 180 lbs. > 235 lbs.

[hockeyplayer45]

Right now my stats are this:

Age:17
Height:5'8"
Weight: 150lbs-155lbs
Bench: 145lbs x 5
Squat: 255lbs x 5
Deadlift: 235 x 5

Nothing special, I know. But I came a long way since I started.

I would like to make big gains in those 3 lifts by next year. I plan to follow a program based all on compound lifts like bench, squat, deads, bent rows, military, chins, and dips. I want to get stronger and noticably bigger. I will be eating 3,500-4,000 cals/day and atleast 300g protein.

Are my goals possible? Any tips on how I can reach my goals? Anyone reached a similar goal to mine?

Age:18
Height:5'8"
Weight: 170lbs-175lbs
Bench: 225lbs x 5
Squat: 405lbs x 5
Deadlift: 450 x 5

[LMW]

Age:18
Height:5'8"
Weight: 170lbs-175lbs
Bench: 225lbs x 5
Squat: 405lbs x 5
Deadlift: 450 x 5

I think the squat and deadlift are too high. Repping over 400 pounds doing full ROM squats is a very hard thing to do, and I've only seen maybe 3 guys do it in real life. I'd say 315 squat and 395 deadlift

[bmar22]

I havent read all of the posts so sorry if this is a repost but you guys are talkin about fullbodys and upper/lowers but does anyone think push/pull/legs are one of the best routines out there especially for bodybuilding, whether your a beginner or expert??

[Reality_Check]

What kind of build would this person have in say 1 year, given they work our properly and eat properly.

One like mine? (though hopefuly at a lower BF%).

Actually his build would depend a lot on his genetics but assuming his training intenisty, frequency, rest, food intake etc is optimal he should gain well on that I reckon. As with any program of course he'll need more than a year to get maximal development.

I'm a four lift person myself (OK 5) and I think I do OK with it (haven't allways been by any means but its what I find optimal where I'm at now).

[glow9]

So what have your guys routines evolved into whats working the best for you?

[In Flames]

i'm loving this routine. done 2-3 times a week, always 2 days off after each workout.

squat 2x12
dips 2x10
chin-ups/wide grip pull-ups 2x10
military press always standing 2x10
stiff legged deadlift 1x10

just focusing on adding weight every couple of workouts. i add 1 set of curls and 1 set of triceps in every like 3rd workout, always til failure then resting for around 12 seconds then going to failure again then taking another 10-12 sec rest then going to failure again, and then i'm done with biceps and triceps.

[glow9]

i'm loving this routine. done 2-3 times a week, always 2 days off after each workout.

squat 2x12
dips 2x10
chin-ups/wide grip pull-ups 2x10
military press always standing 2x10
stiff legged deadlift 1x10

just focusing on adding weight every couple of workouts. i add 1 set of curls and 1 set of triceps in every like 3rd workout, always til failure then resting for around 12 seconds then going to failure again then taking another 10-12 sec rest then going to failure again, and then i'm done with biceps and triceps.

what are you doing to workout your triceps?
I like the fact that I can just get a benchpress and do all these at home and not worry about a gym pass.

[In Flames]

usually for biceps its straight bar curls or seated db curls. for triceps usually skullcrushers or extensions or pushdowns, it basically just depends what i feel like using for that day. i dont do close grip bench since im doing dips, close grip basically just adds mass like dips are already doing that for my chest/shoulders/tircpes, i want to focus only on my triceps when im doing the tricep only exercise. but remember i dont do biceps/triceps every workout, usually only every 3rd workout.

i think abbreviated/short workouts done 2-3 times a week like the ones mentioned in this thread are some of the best and fastest mass building workouts. once you have the mass you want, then you can focus on a more traditional bodybuilding body-part split. just focus on lifting heavy weight over your entire body and work your body as a whole when trying to pack on the most mass. then you can start shaping things up when your big and strong.

[timeforsleeep]

hmm. i'm thinking about trying a routine like this for awhile, and see what kind of gains i get.

could i set up 2 different routines maybe and alternate them maybe? like say something like this, would this work just as good?

Workout A
Squats
Bench
BB Rows
Military press

Deads
Close grip bench
Chin ups or Pull ups alternare each one
Dips

But maybe rest 2 days after each lift for some good rest. Like 1 on 2 off...
Monday - Workout A
Tues - Off
Wed - Off
Thurs - Workout B
Friday - Off
Sat - Off
Sun - A
Mon - Off
Tues - Off
Wednesday - B
etc.

looks like you're really close to the rippetoe's starting strength write-up that is very prominent in this section.


If you read through it though, I recall one of the specific lines said: DO NOT F*CK W/ THE PROGRAM. EVERYONE HAS ADD AND WANT TO ADD OR SUBTRACT THINGS INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING THE ROUTINE.

Just pointing it out, take it for what it's worth.

[jmusclehead]

I was doing the hardgainer routine for a while and making some strides, but, have found that I need to increase my sets a little bit. Instead of doing 1 working set, I'm doing 3-4 working sets now. I'm finding that I'm able to recover from that amount of work pretty well. I'll never go back to high volume training. I just can't recover from that fast enough.

[Duckenheimer]

I was doing the hardgainer routine for a while and making some strides, but, have found that I need to increase my sets a little bit. Instead of doing 1 working set, I'm doing 3-4 working sets now. I'm finding that I'm able to recover from that amount of work pretty well. I'll never go back to high volume training. I just can't recover from that fast enough.

I think beginners should do at least 2 working sets most of the time. Otherwise motor learning/strength gains don't come fast enough and they do not become efficient at the exercise quickly. A beginner shouldn't do one set to complete failure IMO - they don't have the excellent technique or strength to pull it off.

Even when I do only one set an exercise, I don't work to failure. I just hit my PR and get outta there. But I make sure that I can handle 3-5 sets with my top weight if I wanted to (I don't do it all the time). If I don't have THAT work capacity, I don't have very much.

I cycle between 1-2 sets for a few weeks, then 2-3 sets for a few weeks, than 3-5 sets (note I only ever go to 5 sets on Chins, Dips, and Presses, and usually 3 is the most I do in Deadlifts, which I normally prefer to keep to 1-2sets) an exercise for a couple of weeks. Then I go back down. This keeps the linear progression on my main 'barometer' set easy because once I cut the sets, I get through my workouts relatively easy despite being in new poundage territory, and this 'break' gears me up for being more receptive towards upping the volume in a few weeks, and my body dissipates any built up fatigue very easily.

I am a very easy gainer with good recovery, but this is still basically abbreviated training - I don't go over 25 sets for my whole body at any point, and usually do about 10-15. (Gripper training excluded!). It's working ridiculously well. 30lbs in 5 months.

I still keep my total body training to 8 exercises split over 2 workouts.

[RU4A69]

what are you doing to workout your triceps?
I like the fact that I can just get a benchpress and do all these at home and not worry about a gym pass.

A good move for triceps is close grip flat bench press.

For your push day, you could do

Incline presses or dips-2 sets

CGBP-2 sets

(I'm starting to think you could actually stop here)

and then,

Seated dumbell press or military press X 2

finished

Like Jmuscle said, some of you could do 3-4 sets per lift and be just fine.

[RU4A69]

So what have your guys routines evolved into whats working the best for you?

4-5 lifts

Trap bar deads OR front box squats

Underhand pendlay rows

and

Incline press or dips

close grip bench

Military press OR seated dumbell press

Spread out over 2 different days, hitting everything every 7-9 days. Strongman training and long walks on "off days."

[Geneticssuck]

Wow, this thread is a nice discovery.

I wasted alot of time in the gym doing complex splits, extended sets of isolation movements, screwing around and worrying about TUT and optimal rep ranges and ...... blah , blah , blah.

After illness knocked me out of the gym for 3 months I returned but decided that I had enough of the needlessly complex stuff since I never put much muscle on anyways. I created a very basic 2x a week program based on Deads, Bench/Dip, Clean and Press and palms up Pullups. The simplicity reenergized me and I am committed to at least a full year of this program (with some substitutions for variety) before I ever again consider any sort of typical bodybuilding routine.

I am a classic ectomorph and have never hit anything over 170 on squats or deads and maxed out at 180 (for 5 reps) on bench---after countless "restarts" after burning out due to the volume of work, which meant I cycled back to much lower poundages. Constant frustration was my reward and reading the countless variations and programs around in mags and online made things worse, I changed routines constantly.

I LOVE the way this type of routine is working and I am thouroughly excited to get to the gym and slap on a few more pounds or a few more reps and leave knowing I can recover without drugs or hundreds of dollars in supplements.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to my renewed excitement and enjoyment of lifting!

[tacoop]

I don't think you could go wrong with that routine. It would probably produce better gains than you have ever experienced as long as you are eating enough and getting enough rest.

The top four I would do would be the deadlift, squat, dip, and pullups.

[Duckenheimer]

If I had to pick a top 4, it would be Trap Bar Deadlift, Chinup, Dip, and Military Press.

[jmusclehead]

If I had to pick a top 4, it would be Trap Bar Deadlift, Chinup, Dip, and Overhead Press.

I would pick 3 of those and substitute rows for chins.

[Geneticssuck]

If I had to pick a top 4, it would be Trap Bar Deadlift, Chinup, Dip, and Military Press.

I would give my left nut for a trap bar---my gym is for white collar ex hippies who like alot of cables (which is great since the rack is always available for deads or squats) and machines.

As for the Military Press, I have found that the Clean and Press a great alternative---form is tough though and I am just learning; actually, form on all the lifts is tougher than I thought but there is lots of time to nail it down.

Using this routine, I have regained about 2/3'ds of my pre-illness size (which was pretty modest but seemed to disappear at 10 times the rate at which I gained it) in 3 weeks. My goal is to pack on about 10 pounds in the next 6months. Carrying around a calorie counter to make sure I am getting enough to eat.

[Duckenheimer]

As for the Military Press, I have found that the Clean and Press a great alternative---form is tough though and I am just learning; actually, form on all the lifts is tougher than I thought but there is lots of time to nail it down.

I'm learning to Clean now. I want to do that for my Military Presses. Not on every rep (in this cycle) but for the start of the sets.

[Geneticssuck]

I'm learning to Clean now. I want to do that for my Military Presses. Not on every rep (in this cycle) but for the start of the sets.

Clean and Press really forces me to improve my mind/muscle connection. My shoulders are a massive weak spot for me---really narrow and my previous attempts to improve them probably overworked them to death.

I have to mention that I am currently NOT doing squats---I appear to get a much better effect from Deads. The mechanics of squatting are just not great for me , it becomes a lower back and glute exercise whereas I ALWAYS feel the deads in my legs AND glutes, back, arms etc. The only guys I see that benefit from Squats are the short guys who already had larger than average leg size.

[cinemod]

well, i made a thread in the misc, asking if anyone wants to be my online trainer. Just tell me when and what to lift. With some food tips.

IF you guys want, i`ll test out this program. i`m 5,8" 130lbs. Some one make the program.

[RU4A69]

well, i made a thread in the misc, asking if anyone wants to be my online trainer. Just tell me when and what to lift. With some food tips.

IF you guys want, i`ll test out this program. i`m 5,8" 130lbs. Some one make the program.

I've outlined several programs in this thread already. Go back and look over the last 10-15 pages.

Also, read through this website--

www.ironaddicts.com

[plasticbat]

Wow, this thread is a nice discovery.

I wasted alot of time in the gym doing complex splits, extended sets of isolation movements, screwing around and worrying about TUT and optimal rep ranges and ...... blah , blah , blah.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to my renewed excitement and enjoyment of lifting!

You and me both! The way I look at it is, at least we can learn from our mistakes! I've been reading a lot about this type of routine and it seems like its just what I need to put on the extra size and strength that I want. All those hours in the gym that I've spent might now finally start to pay off with doing just these core lifts! It seemed hard to beleive at first, after doing so many isolation workouts for so long that 3-4 core lifts and 1-5sets could give you such great results but it makes sense. I'm definitely going to give it a shot and see how it works for me! I wouldn't say I wasted all my time from my past experience in the gym, just half I learned a lot, thats just going to help me when I do reach the size I want to be. I already have a good base, now its time to expand and try different things. I think I will soon be making a log and either doing something similar to one of these workouts or just sticking with something like the ripptoe to give me some direction. "which I haven't done much research on the riptoe yet." Either way I was about to buy his book "Starting Strength" just to read through it over the weekend and on off days, before I start the new program. Have you guys had any experience with it? Would you recommend it? Just like Genetics said, thanks for opening our eyes guys, awesome thread btw!!!

I've outlined several programs in this thread already. Go back and look over the last 10-15 pages.

Also, read through this website--

www.ironaddicts.com

I'll be looking over this whole thread and this website aswell

[plasticbat]

Clean and Press really forces me to improve my mind/muscle connection. My shoulders are a massive weak spot for me---really narrow and my previous attempts to improve them probably overworked them to death.

I have to mention that I am currently NOT doing squats---I appear to get a much better effect from Deads. The mechanics of squatting are just not great for me , it becomes a lower back and glute exercise whereas I ALWAYS feel the deads in my legs AND glutes, back, arms etc. The only guys I see that benefit from Squats are the short guys who already had larger than average leg size.

Cleans are something that I'm not so fimiliar with, I have done them back in high school "about 4 yrs ago," but I'm not really a big fan. Maybe I will change my mind soon...

I just recently hurt my lower back from doing squats, as you can see I'm a little on the taller side. I'm kind of paranoid to start back with squats, however they do give me an awesome workout and from the research I've been doing I should get and even better experience doing them full instead of parallel, "I think I'm just going to start really light." However Deads I'm fairly new to so I'm looking foward to trying those aswell!
Btw. Could someone explain what a rack pull is vs. dead lift vs. a stiff legged deadlift and the benifits of each, thanks!

[cinemod]

I've outlined several programs in this thread already. Go back and look over the last 10-15 pages.

Also, read through this website--

www.ironaddicts.com

wow, 15 pages. dont got time for that

[Duckenheimer]

wow, 15 pages. dont got time for that

Yet you have 35 posts in one day... and 1500 posts since starting. So yes you do have time.

Whether you're willing to bother is another story. This kind of **** takes TREMENDOUS dedication consistency and willpower, all of which are far more important than any program. If you're not willing to read 15 pages (which is VERY little) then well...

You don't have to bother to do anything, but if ya wanna get anywhere, you can't expect to be spoonfed everything when a few clicks of a buttom will do the same.

[LMW]

read this

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3402

[cinemod]

i`ve decided to try this out, got it from the Rippetoe thread. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

Monday - Workout A
Wednesday - Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:
Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B




Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay Rows

then after about 3 weeks or so, i`ll add dips and pull/chins.

[RU4A69]

i`ve decided to try this out, got it from the Rippetoe thread. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

Monday - Workout A
Wednesday - Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:
Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B




Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay Rows

then after about 3 weeks or so, i`ll add dips and pull/chins.

You've got the right Idea, but DO NOT deadlift more than once a week. Do Deads on one day, and Good Mornings on the next.

I am virulently opposed to squatting more than once a week, but to each their own.