Pushdowns for PL

**Antaeus** · 07-17-2002, 10:58 AM

I thought heavy pushdowns were good for hypertrophy and strength, but recently I've read some posts that said otherwise:

"Pushdowns: These exercises do very little to truly develop functional strength, and should be used only for active recovery or as GPP." -Arioch http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum...hreadid=150391

"Years ago, if you had asked Larry Pacifico how to get a big bench, he'd have told you to train the triceps. This same advice applies today. This doesn't mean doing set after set of pushdowns, kickbacks, and other so-called "shaping" exercises. Training your triceps for a big bench has to involve heavy extensions and close-grip pressing movements such as close-grip flat and incline bench presses, close-grip board presses, and JM presses." -Dave Tate
http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_115b600.html

Should I keep pushdowns in my workout, or am I just wasting my time??

**pure_power** · 07-17-2002, 12:02 PM

I use pushdowns for accessory work for hypertrophy after my maximum effort bench/speed bench and assistance exercise(s) for my triceps. I cycle the exercise every now and then, but they've seemed to work for me. As far as strength goes for pushdowns, it won't help you develop much strength. Yes, having a big bench requires heavy extensions and types of presses, but I do that for assistance work after bench. Then pushdowns come in for hypertrophy.

**Teen powerliftr** · 07-17-2002, 02:52 PM

everyone uses them differently i use them for active recovery in 20x5 at 20% of my 1rm with swimming and other light movements

**Destro** · 07-17-2002, 03:42 PM

I've acctually seen while I was BBing more strength increases in my triceps while doing pushdowns. At first I started at a little more than half the stack (cable crossover machine) and by the end of my twelve weeks I was doing the whole stack, then again my tricep extensions went up only 20 lbs and my close grip bench 40. I'm not too big on powerlifting yet, just started last week

**Teen powerliftr** · 07-17-2002, 06:22 PM

they build nice, pretty and large muscles but that won't help your bench press

**Antaeus** · 07-18-2002, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Teen powerliftr
they build nice, pretty and large muscles but that won't help your bench press

I thought assistence excercises are performed exactly for maximal hypertrophy, ie building bigger muscles. That's why you use the Repeated training method for assistence excercises, not DE or ME. If hypertrophy doesn't help your bench press, then why do them?

**Retardo-pex** · 07-18-2002, 10:02 PM

I use pushdowns, but only after my heavy close-grips and extensions.

**Teen powerliftr** · 07-19-2002, 02:32 AM

assistance is used to build "strength" in the "assisting" muscles

accesory is used to build hypertrophy, recovery or whatever you got them there for....

**pure_power** · 07-19-2002, 06:17 AM

I use accessory for simply just getting bigger. Yeah, I love being strong, but I also like a lot of muscle mass. And as long as I'm getting both, I'm happy. Don't kill yourself with accessories though, that's the worst thing you can do.

**Antaeus** · 07-19-2002, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by pure_power
I use accessory for simply just getting bigger. Yeah, I love being strong, but I also like a lot of muscle mass. And as long as I'm getting both, I'm happy. Don't kill yourself with accessories though, that's the worst thing you can do.

Exactly!

I've seen great gains with BB - I'm now at 182 - but I'd like to see more strength increases as well as gaining a little more mass (I only have 16" guns). Hence the switch to PL. After a week of westside I am sore! This is a great changeup after BB - it was getting somewhat stale.

**p0w3rlift3r** · 07-20-2002, 02:48 AM

i have 15' guns

i am guessing goerge and kenny to have in the area of 17' there not very big, goes to show size is most definantly not everything

**Dave** · 07-20-2002, 09:52 AM

www.americanpowerlifting.com
I do pushdowns with regular and reverse grips after JM presses while Im precontest...

Dave
7-time USPF/USAPL National Champion

**Dave** · 07-20-2002, 09:54 AM

(But Im also not a very big/good bencher by any means, 500 in the 198s...)

**pure_power** · 07-20-2002, 01:05 PM

You're good in our opinion, well at least mine lol.

**Deejay_Spike** · 07-20-2002, 01:41 PM

haven't done pushdowns since 2 months.... i'm not complaining.

besides, i feel i get a lot more from the triceps extensions, as they are more closely related to the bench, it's like the goodmorning of benching

the way i see it : gm duplicates the movement where you fail your squat and then recover (i.e. training for chaos). because, when you fail your squat, most of the time you'll go forward.

t ext dupclicates the movement where many go into a wrong form of benching, thus sometimes failing it, or lifting less than they could have done (and that's not acceptable IMO). because, when you got weaker tris, the bar moves toward your eyes.

see what i mean?

but i digress... point is i find t ext better then pushdowns, even though the pushdowns can be good for recover if ever you're quite sore

**p0w3rlift3r** · 07-20-2002, 09:32 PM

i never get sore still i do recovery excercise

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