squats with a smith machine

[basket of soft]

what do you think about doing squats with a smith machine , will it be the same if i do them in a cage.

[johnsbod]

what do you think about doing squats with a smith machine , will it be the same if i do them in a cage.

No, it's not the same thing. If you use the search function you will find several recent threads on the topic.

[basket of soft]

No, it's not the same thing. If you use the search function you will find several recent threads on the topic.

i tried and i didnt find anything please show them if you got them.

[AmateurWrestler]

you are much better off doing them with free weights

[PhearaZer]

i always do squats on the smithe machine as it isolates the quad better and leaves the lower back alone. plus, with being 6'4" i need all the lumbar support that i can get. it's really a personal preference tho.

[MrBRoc]

why would you want to isolate your quads when doing them with freeweights uses the stablizer muscles which makes for a way better leg workout... smith machine helps for certain things but squats is not 1 of them i will guarantee you that anyone who uses the machine and says they can do like 200lbs or whatever wont be doing that when they try freeweights they will be wobbling all over the place.. same goes for benching

[PhearaZer]

that's true, you won't do as much weight as you would with free weight, but like i said before it's a personal preference, and some people may feel more comfortable doing smithe squats instead.

basket, here's a link to another thread just like this. FYI.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ghlight=smithe

[basket of soft]

what if i have to use a the smith machine , is their anyway that i can workout the stabilizer muscles another way?

[DCx]

i dont like using a bar across my neck but if i have to i used the smith, i usually just hold on to some bumb bells and squat down until they almost touch the floor, i guess you can say its like a bumb bell dead lift. my legs burn after that.

[MrBRoc]

i dont like using a bar across my neck but if i have to i used the smith, i usually just hold on to some bumb bells and squat down until they almost touch the floor, i guess you can say its like a bumb bell dead lift. my legs burn after that.

i dont know about laying it across your neck... that could be your problem you should rest it either on your traps/shoulders or abit lower depending on how you like and btw they also have a pad that you can use to make it more comfy which works out quite well for thin people like myself who dont have the meat on them to rest the bar on heh oh and also you can do dumbbell squats basket that will work the stablizer muscles better then the smith machine...

[Tim_G]

i dont know about laying it across your neck... that could be your problem you should rest it either on your traps/shoulders or abit lower depending on how you like and btw they also have a pad that you can use to make it more comfy which works out quite well for thin people like myself who dont have the meat on them to rest the bar on heh oh and also you can do dumbbell squats basket that will work the stablizer muscles better then the smith machine...

Pad, or just a towel would work for him.

[madnerb]

that's true, you won't do as much weight as you would with free weight, but like i said before it's a personal preference, and some people may feel more comfortable doing smithe squats instead.

basket, here's a link to another thread just like this. FYI.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ghlight=smithe

he was saying you would use less weight doing free weights, not more

[$AJ]

"
The difference between the smith machine and a free weight bench press is significant in terms of overall gains. There are several important neurological factors at play here:

balance proprioception: In every exercise you do there is an element of balance, or to put it more technically a feedback loop that constantly adjusts recruitment of agonist, antagonist and synergists in order to maintain the desired output. This is a facet of the CNS, so it's centrally controlled and can be improved by using primarily free weight exercises, and even more so by using CKCE exercise, closed kinetic chain exercises. Squats on the smith machine would be a very seriously bad idea, as squatting is THE exercise which improves balance proprioception to the greatest extent. For bench press it's less of a concern, but it's still a concern.
Other than the effect on the CNS, the fact is that using EMG study and simply common sense, a free weight bench press recruits more muscle fibres it's as simple as that. The body does not and cannot hypertrophy on the scale of an individual muscle, the synergists of that muscle must also hypertrophy or the body would be in a constant state of imbalance and injury.

force proprioception: force proprioception is another attribute that operates both peripherally and centrally, and boils down to this, how heavy does an exercise feel and in what is the specific adaption required to deal with that force? Many people erroneously think that the squat is the king of exercises because of hormone release, which obviously is completely wrong, the actual amount or change in hormone release whilst squatting is insignificant. If you want to release a lot of test go to bed, if you want to release a lot of GH go do some endurance training. The real power of squatting is that as a load bearing exercise is has an extremely strong effect on the force proprioception of the CNS.
Although you may be able to apply a RPE (rating of percieved effort) of 100% to both smith bench and free weight bench, or in other words you will be pushing with everything you have for both exercises. The actual response of the body will be quite different given the demands of the exercise. It just isn't true that load is load is load no matter what the source is, the body can tell a cable from a free weight from a machine.

In terms of injury I don't believe that it matters, it's not WHAT you do it's HOW you do it that determines injury rates. The body can adapt to cope with almost anything.
"

[cardioking]

i will guarantee you that anyone who uses the machine and says they can do like 200lbs or whatever wont be doing that when they try freeweights they will be wobbling all over the place.. same goes for benching

Some of us do not use the squat as a bragging tool. Sorry. Same with the bench press. I am for working the muscle I am wanting to work and doing it the safest way possible. I use the Smith Machine most because I NEVER have a spotter. But even if I did use the free weights all of the time I would never go around telling people I can squat 200 or whatever. I don't care what I squat as long as the muscles are getting worked. If the numbers go up.... great. If not fine. I can tell when I am gaining muscle and it doesn't have to be by the numbers I am lifting either.

[johnsbod]

i tried and i didnt find anything please show them if you got them.

Here's just a couple I came across:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=smith+squat

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=smith+squat

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=smith+squat

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=smith+squat

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=smith+squat

[$AJ]

Some of us do not use the squat as a bragging tool. Sorry. Same with the bench press. I am for working the muscle I am wanting to work and doing it the safest way possible. I use the Smith Machine most because I NEVER have a spotter. But even if I did use the free weights all of the time I would never go around telling people I can squat 200 or whatever. I don't care what I squat as long as the muscles are getting worked. If the numbers go up.... great. If not fine. I can tell when I am gaining muscle and it doesn't have to be by the numbers I am lifting either.

use a power rack then if you're concerend about muscle sbeing worked to their full ability.

[johnsbod]

Some of us do not use the squat as a bragging tool. Sorry. Same with the bench press. I am for working the muscle I am wanting to work and doing it the safest way possible. I use the Smith Machine most because I NEVER have a spotter. But even if I did use the free weights all of the time I would never go around telling people I can squat 200 or whatever. I don't care what I squat as long as the muscles are getting worked. If the numbers go up.... great. If not fine. I can tell when I am gaining muscle and it doesn't have to be by the numbers I am lifting either.

The problem is that the Smith machine forces you to use incorrect form. When using proper form doing squats, the bar does not travel in a straight vertical line. Using incorrect form on any exercise, such as "Smith squats," will increase the likelihood of injury. As $AJ said, use a power rack. There are safety features built-in to prevent the problem you are talking about.

[LiftingIsLife]

post#13 above (by $AJ) is easily one of the most well written and most informative posts to appear on bodybuilding.com for a long long time.
USE IT to better yourself.

best,
lifer

[MrBRoc]

Some of us do not use the squat as a bragging tool. Sorry. Same with the bench press. I am for working the muscle I am wanting to work and doing it the safest way possible. I use the Smith Machine most because I NEVER have a spotter. But even if I did use the free weights all of the time I would never go around telling people I can squat 200 or whatever. I don't care what I squat as long as the muscles are getting worked. If the numbers go up.... great. If not fine. I can tell when I am gaining muscle and it doesn't have to be by the numbers I am lifting either.

your a idiot learn how to read... no one said i bragged what i can do for your information i cant even squat 200lbs i made a example next time learn how to read before you make a response

[chris5]

why would you want to isolate your quads when doing them with freeweights uses the stablizer muscles which makes for a way better leg workout... smith machine helps for certain things but squats is not 1 of them i will guarantee you that anyone who uses the machine and says they can do like 200lbs or whatever wont be doing that when they try freeweights they will be wobbling all over the place.. same goes for benching

EXACTLY! he said it right. i only used smith machine squats for a long time and i got to where i could easily rep 195 for 3x8. now when i go and do normal barbell squats, i struggle to rep 135. i wish i did BB squats to being with b/c my quads got strong but none of the other stabalizer muscles and groin got strong. the result, i get extremly sore and have no balance on freeweight squats. i have to work my way back up to weight i used to squat now. i feel like such a bitch when only squatting 135 in the gym but hopefully i will get stronger. i still have a balance issue when going all the way down. trust me, don't do smith machines, you get dependent on them.

[MrBRoc]

no point to feel like a bitch for only squating 135 bro.. no one was born lifting 400lbs heh give it alittle time for the other muscles to grow abit and you will be fine

[F W Nietszche]

no point to feel like a bitch for only squating 135 bro.. no one was born lifting 400lbs heh give it alittle time for the other muscles to grow abit and you will be fine

when I first squatted, i had trouble with a bar

[MrBRoc]

yea squats are no joke... theres 2 things that make me want to run away from the gym... thats when i have to do my military press and my squats lol both painful yet effective

[$AJ]

post#13 above (by $AJ) is easily one of the most well written and most informative posts to appear on bodybuilding.com for a long long time.
USE IT to better yourself.

best,
lifer

unfortauntly i keep having to re-quote and re-quote and re-quote etc.. .etc... because it never sinks in.

[BigAlch]

Smith machines should have never been invented FULLSTOP!

And they are extramly bad for squats as a smith machine does not allow for correct range of motion !

[leggatt]

I have a smith machine that I have in my garage and I have used it for several years. Every now for about three months every year (Jan through to the end of March) I get a pass at a local gym. I squat about 330 on the smith and I have absolutely no problem going as heavy or heavier with the free weights and on both I squat to about the point that a 90 degree andle forms with the upper and lower leg. I can go lower but a smith tends to put you in a bad position due to the range of motion. I don't lose my balance or feel like I am tipping at all. Aside from that I do not notice much difference in lifts. Currently I am repping about 405 on the free squat. So I don't buy the nonsense that smith's are no good. My lifts on bench are not really any different either. The key is to develop a balanced workout so you do train the stabalizers. For instance, I do alot of deadlifts and stiff legged deadlifts and walking lunges for my legs as well and I do a lot of dumbell presses and flyes and so on. A smith can be used in a well planned workout program to help you effectively achieve your goals.

[johnsbod]

I have a smith machine that I have in my garage and I have used it for several years. Every now for about three months every year (Jan through to the end of March) I get a pass at a local gym. I squat about 330 on the smith and I have absolutely no problem going as heavy or heavier with the free weights and on both I squat to about the point that a 90 degree andle forms with the upper and lower leg. I can go lower but a smith tends to put you in a bad position due to the range of motion. I don't lose my balance or feel like I am tipping at all. Aside from that I do not notice much difference in lifts. Currently I am repping about 405 on the free squat. So I don't buy the nonsense that smith's are no good. My lifts on bench are not really any different either. The key is to develop a balanced workout so you do train the stabalizers. For instance, I do alot of deadlifts and stiff legged deadlifts and walking lunges for my legs as well and I do a lot of dumbell presses and flyes and so on. A smith can be used in a well planned workout program to help you effectively achieve your goals.

I have a hard time believing this, sorry.

[lifepulse]

<quote>I have a hard time believing this, sorry.<quote>

Well, it's true. Granted, sticking to smith squats (or bench, etc.) exclusively over a long period of time will make returning to the free weights quite strange. And yes, there is a difference in the amount of weight used (I rep 4 plates for squats in a smith, and 3 and a quarter on free weights). However, the smith has its advantages, the biggest of which is back stabilization. Being a taller person (6'1"), squatting heavy unlocks the hips during the descent, which can get scary, even in a safety cage-- it's still very easy to pitch forward too far and hurt the back when you're really pushing yourself. So I stick with the free weights, and continue to push hard on them, continually upping the poundages and reps. At the same time, squatting occasionally on the smith allows me to focus exclusively on the legs without having to worry about pitching forward. (And it's true that, if the stabilizer muscles are also worked hard, using the smith occasionally isn't a problem, as long as it doesn't become a crutch.)

-lifepulse

[johnsbod]

<quote>I have a hard time believing this, sorry.<quote>

I think you need to read the post I was quoting.

[leggatt]

I have a hard time believing this, sorry.

You don't have to, but it is true. Just because I have a low post count doesn't mean I am a lier.

Benching 200 lbs on a smith doesn't mean you can barely get a plate on free weights, that is ridiculous. Also, if you read the post, I incorporate a lot of full range movements with dumbells etc. I have used a smith for years for all kinds of lifts and have not found it to cause me to be weaker on other lifts.