Size = calories vs weights

[MVP]

We all know calories + weights = bigger stronger muscles

Why is it when some says i want a big chest, then everyone will suggest there own chest workout for the individual? Maybe its not his workout that's not giving him a big chest. Its the fact that he's not eating big. People say this workout (whatever it may be) has given me a big chest. Basically it sounds like the workout makes you big, and they forget to mention the food? IMO, all the weight/programs do is break down the muscle. Its the food that actually puts on the size. Example, people complain that their certain workout does not produce gains. The reason is they are not eating enuff. Maybe im wrong?

[biggash]

Agreed. Training does very little for you without food and it's proven by all the people that bust their butts in the gym and never get anywhere. It's not really hard to stimulate a muscle. Anybody with a basic knowledge about body mechanics can train halfway decently. However there are things that you learn along your bodybuilding journey that can maximize your effects in the gym. Alot of books and "experts" say that nutrition is 75 percent of your success. I think it's much higher than that. Same with cardio. You see the same peole everyday doing cardio and never lose a pound. WHY? They simply don't know how to eat properly or how your body utilizes different nutrients. Sure cardio is great for your heart but as far as physique goes, cardio does very little for you without proper nutrition. I like to call personal trainers that don't train themselves book trainers. What I mean is anybody can read a book and get a peice of paper saying they know what they are doing but if they themselves don't train regularly they don't know how the muscle feels and how far to push the person. There is alot of things in personal training manuals that are innaccurate. Every time somebody post a problem it is usually fixed by changing something within their diet.

[Clemenza]

This is actually a very good thread. I have always been a believer in the same thing. You can only stimulate the muscle so much, but if you're not eating properly then you won't reach your goals, especially when it comes to putting on mass. Reps for both of you.

[MVP]

yep, i agree with the personal trainers as book trainers too

I know if i was a novice or even intermediate going into a gym. I KNOW, i'll be looking for the trainer with a great physique. IMO, they know what they are talking about, because it shows in their physique. I know i wouldnt want to learn how to put on mass or reduce body fat from a trainer with a big gut. He or she can teach me how to eat. I dont understand how a trainer can teach someone anything about programs/nutrition when they cant even do it for themselves

[Dirk D.]

I agree that this is a very good thread. I don't agree, however, with a lot of the ideas on it, so I will offer something different.

First of all, a person's body does not represent how much knowledge he has. To say that the trainer with the best physique is the most knowledgable is completely wrong. There are some of people who train like absolute morons, defy every law of exercise science and make great grains, and the sad fact is that they just have great genetics. Genetics is the numer one, like it or not, determinant when it comes to physique development. Person A and person B can follow the exact same training and diet protocol and both get dramatically different results from that training and diet protocol. I know it's not fair, but it is the sad truth, whether you like it or not. I've said this before, that the most knowledgable guy I've ever met when it came to weight training was a skinny little runt. He had absolutely horrible genetics, but developed a pretty good body for himeslf. This man did it the hard way, and I'd take his advice over a genetic superman like Schwartzenegger any day. He's a real person, an average Joe, just like me. Maybe Schwartzenegger trained the way he did, and developed great muscle size, but that doesn't mean he had a clue what he was doing. There are tonnes of other people who've trained like him, eatten like him, and are complete failures. They don't tell you about them.... I'm sure you know someone who has a great physique and didn't have to work all that hard for it. I actually know a guy at my uni who could probably beat most people in a bodybuilding competetion, but he's never lifted a weight in his life. I wouldn't take his advice. The fact of the matter is, that a bodybuilding theory does not stand or fall based on the person who endorses it. To say that it does, is ridiculous. Don't be so naive.

Secondly, this idea that nutrition is 75% percent is completely false. The equation is 50/50 and that's it, 50% nutrition, and 50% training. Training includes not training as well, ie: rest days. If you don't make your training as precise as possible, and don't take your rest days seriously, you'll be bound to fail, or progress really damn slowly, regardless of your nutrition. Of course, don't get me wrong here, if you're eating like an idiot but training with exact precision, then you won't make it very far. Yup, sure. Nutrition is very important, of course. But the opposite is also true. If you 're eating spot on, but training like a complete idiot, then you won't make the gains you should be making. Tonnes of people train in an absolutely ridculous fashion, and struggle to put on muscle mass, even though they have a very good diet. People will say, that they should fix their diet, but chances are they are getting enough calories and protien as it is. I'd say, if you're getting at least one gram of protien per pound of bodyweight, and are getting at least 300 cals a day over your daily maintenance, that you should look at your training first, not your diet.

The vast, and I mean vast, majority of trainees fall victim to overtraining. To make up for their overtraining, they convince themselves that they need to eat 4000 calories a day when they weigh a buck 80. At this caloric intake, with their overtraining, they may or may not gain at all, and might convince themeslves that they need even more cals. This is ridiculous. What they need to do is to stop overtraining. I would say that most people who take this at all seriously probably have a decent diet as it is, after they've put some effort into it, and they should look at their training first if they've stopped gaining, because chances are, they're overtraining. And it is true, 100% true, that no matter how good your diet is, no amount of good food and nutrition will save you from overtraining, like it or not. If you train too often, and with too much work, you're overtraining, and no diet will be able to fix that. Overtraining is a big deal, and it will make your life a living hell. It's 50/50, period.

Dirk

[MVP]

Nope..i dont agree with 50/50

Your in the gym 1 hour out of your day tops. There is another 23 hours that you spend resting and eating etc..... This is when You grow.... during the other 23 hours, so there is no way its 50/50. I also dont like the fact people use genetics as an excuse for development.

You forgot to mention Arnold took everything back in the days

[Dirk D.]

Nope..i dont agree with 50/50

Your in the gym 1 hour out of your day tops. There is another 23 hours that you spend resting and eating etc..... This is when You grow.... during the other 23 hours, so there is no way its 50/50. I also dont like the fact people use genetics as an excuse for development.

You forgot to mention Arnold took everything back in the days

It doesn't matter how much time you spend doing something, that's not what makes it important. You probably spend more time sleeping than you do eating, but that doesn't make sleep more important than food. People actually get up in the middle of the night and interrupt their sleep so they can eat. Sure, eating may be more time consuming, but that doesn't make it more important. The fact is, one hour, two hours, fifteen minutes, whatever, the time is really irrelevant. Screw it up in the gym and/or train too often, long, much, etc., and it won't matter what you eat.

Saying it's 80 percent nutrition is like saying that, in the great scheme of things, it doesn't matter what you do in the gym, how often you do it, how hard you do it, how long you do it, how much you sleep, etc., so long as you put the right food down your throat you'll grow gigantic muscles. We know that's not true. It's 50/50, and if you screw either one of them up or you won't make it very far.

Genetics isn't an "excuse for development," it's a fact ABOUT development. Miss that and you're blind. Just look around you. If genetics wasn't a key factor in one's development, we could all use the exact same training and nutrition protocol and get exactly the same results. One even responds to steroids based on their genetic qualities. Zane could never be Yates.

Dirk

[supplementsavvy]

I believe that Arnold succeeded in spite of what his training strategies were, not because of them. He was definitely overtraining, the only reason he was able to keep up with 3 hours a day in the gym, exercising each bodypart three times a week, was because of his chemical enhancement. As a natural trainer Arnold would have been a bodybuilding failure.

That said, I used to read Arnold's books and follow the routines. After I got a little older (and wiser) I began to see the error in the following the advice of guys like Arnold. I now take my training and nutrition advice from guys like Mauro DiPasquale, academics who understand biochemistry and endocrinology.

[norco_one25]

yeah i hate it when people go, i grew most by using this exercise..

[Limp Wristed]

I agree that this is a very good thread. I don't agree, however, with a lot of the ideas on it, so I will offer something different.

First of all, a person's body does not represent how much knowledge he has. To say that the trainer with the best physique is the most knowledgable is completely wrong. There are some of people who train like absolute morons, defy every law of exercise science and make great grains, and the sad fact is that they just have great genetics. Genetics is the numer one, like it or not, determinant when it comes to physique development. Person A and person B can follow the exact same training and diet protocol and both get dramatically different results from that training and diet protocol. I know it's not fair, but it is the sad truth, whether you like it or not. I've said this before, that the most knowledgable guy I've ever met when it came to weight training was a skinny little runt. He had absolutely horrible genetics, but developed a pretty good body for himeslf. This man did it the hard way, and I'd take his advice over a genetic superman like Schwartzenegger any day. He's a real person, an average Joe, just like me. Maybe Schwartzenegger trained the way he did, and developed great muscle size, but that doesn't mean he had a clue what he was doing. There are tonnes of other people who've trained like him, eatten like him, and are complete failures. They don't tell you about them.... I'm sure you know someone who has a great physique and didn't have to work all that hard for it. I actually know a guy at my uni who could probably beat most people in a bodybuilding competetion, but he's never lifted a weight in his life. I wouldn't take his advice. The fact of the matter is, that a bodybuilding theory does not stand or fall based on the person who endorses it. To say that it does, is ridiculous. Don't be so naive.

Secondly, this idea that nutrition is 75% percent is completely false. The equation is 50/50 and that's it, 50% nutrition, and 50% training. Training includes not training as well, ie: rest days. If you don't make your training as precise as possible, and don't take your rest days seriously, you'll be bound to fail, or progress really damn slowly, regardless of your nutrition. Of course, don't get me wrong here, if you're eating like an idiot but training with exact precision, then you won't make it very far. Yup, sure. Nutrition is very important, of course. But the opposite is also true. If you 're eating spot on, but training like a complete idiot, then you won't make the gains you should be making. Tonnes of people train in an absolutely ridculous fashion, and struggle to put on muscle mass, even though they have a very good diet. People will say, that they should fix their diet, but chances are they are getting enough calories and protien as it is. I'd say, if you're getting at least one gram of protien per pound of bodyweight, and are getting at least 300 cals a day over your daily maintenance, that you should look at your training first, not your diet.

The vast, and I mean vast, majority of trainees fall victim to overtraining. To make up for their overtraining, they convince themselves that they need to eat 4000 calories a day when they weigh a buck 80. At this caloric intake, with their overtraining, they may or may not gain at all, and might convince themeslves that they need even more cals. This is ridiculous. What they need to do is to stop overtraining. I would say that most people who take this at all seriously probably have a decent diet as it is, after they've put some effort into it, and they should look at their training first if they've stopped gaining, because chances are, they're overtraining. And it is true, 100% true, that no matter how good your diet is, no amount of good food and nutrition will save you from overtraining, like it or not. If you train too often, and with too much work, you're overtraining, and no diet will be able to fix that. Overtraining is a big deal, and it will make your life a living hell. It's 50/50, period.

Dirk

Wow you really said that gracefully. I agree 100% with everything you said and I also liked how well you worded that