I'm big but weak, bicep str. is uneven, and curious about target rep range, reps4help

[skelooth]

Sorry about the jumbled 3rd grade grammer topic title :P Also sorry this is so long, but it's like a whole lot of questions asked in 'ramble' format.

Now, where do I begin....

I'll begin with the thing that is bothering me the most. My bicep strength is very uneven. Not only is my bicep strength uneven, but my biceps are VERY week compared to their size.

http://patrickavella.com/bicep.jpg

^ That is my bicep after lifting today. No joke, 17.25" with a snug myotape.

The problems??? Here is the session i did today. wg pull ups, db rows, under hand bb rows, preacher curl, concentration curl, hammer curl.

On preacher curl, I did three sets, at only FORTY LBS, and it worked out to 8 reps, then 7 reps, then failure in only 5 reps. For the love of st. pete, I'm embarassed that my biceps are so week when they are (not gloating, being realistic) gigantic compared to people who are lifting almost 2x as much as me.

So after preacher curls I go to do concentration curl, and I'm trying to up my rep range, so I use a pussy 15lbs db...... my left arm went into failure after the first 7th rep, but my right arm could go to 7 and it felt like it could do 7 more no problem. My right arm is MUCH stronger, and has much higher endurance than my left arm. What gives?? How do I fix this? I have been lifting for a little over 7 months now... shouldn't this problem have gone away on it's own by now?

Okay, so on to the third problem. Why the HELL am I so weak? Some of my lifts are so small that I am absolutely EMBARASSED. There are old 65 yr old men at my gym who are lifting more than me. There are kids that literally way 70lbs less than me that lift more than me. Then the other guys my size are bigger are lifting like 2x more than me or more.

My dumbell press is stuck at 45-50 for 8-10 reps, refuses to get stronger... if i don't eat enough that day it's even weaker. I only squat 135-150lbs, like i said my bicep curl is permanantly 'stuck' at 40lbs.
.....
................ :|

It's really not cool.

so, the questions in short form:

1. Should I be horrified and embarassed that my arms are so big but so weak? Am I stronger than I think and just fatigued from the other exercises?

2. How do i fix the strength inequality between my left and right arms?

3. Why am I so pathetically weak for my gargantuan size? How can I correct this without bulking/putting on weight

4. When it comes to rep range, I don't feel a pump unless i get into the 10-14 rep ranges, should I be focusing on higher reps?


Please keep in mind that I have been dieting/cutting for the past 7+ months, and I was making slow steady gains up until a month or two ago, now i'm slowly getting weaker. (see sig).

THANK YOU for any help and opinions. I will give rep points for helpful answers, if i don't right away, it's cos i gotta recharge

[gymaddict01]

seems like you might be over trained, when you are over trained you tend to lose some strength...but wow man thats pretty crazy.

[skelooth]

seems like you might be over trained, when you are over trained you tend to lose some strength...but wow man thats pretty crazy.

I'm doing a 3 day split with low-moderate intensity cardio 4-5x a week (usually 4). I change my routine every 4 weeks, and I take a whole week off from everything every 8th week.

And yeah that is crazy right?? I'm like embarassed at the gym.... I look like a moron with 17" arms concentration curling a 15lb dumbell..... meanwhile there will be some skinny kid half my size 5' away who is hammer curling 30lb dumbells.

[Dirk D.]

Skelooth,

Don't worry about it. This is probably the most pronounced case of this I've ever heard of, but don't worry.

It sounds like you just don't have a very good neurological system. You've probably heard of neural adaptations, and neural gains. What your neurological system does, is it gives your muscles signals from your brain to fire muscle fibres. Put simply, it delivers the signal from your brain to make your muscles contract. Some people have really good neurological pathways, and can thus lift a hell of a lot of weight for their size. In other words, they're just good lifters. You've probably seen a little guy who can lift zillions of pounds. Powerlifters are like this, especially lightweight lifters. They have an execellent neurological system, and can become very stong for their size.

Some people actually have different pathways in their own body. For example, I've got great neural abilities in my pulling muscles compared to my pushing muscles (in other words, I can comparatively pull more than I can push, relatively speaking), but my pushing muscles are in many ways bigger than my pulling ones.

The bottom line is, it doesn't really matter. You get what you're born with. You can try doing heavier weights for lower reps, but smaller people may always be able to outlift you. You may always be a bit weaker than your size indicates. The thing is though, it's relative. Training 'heavy' or training 'light' is relative. Strength is relative, and if you want to get bigger muscles, you have to make them stonger. That's it, doesn't matter where you start out at, you still have to get stonger to get bigger. When you get up to weights that other smaller people normally do, you'll prbably be even bigger than you are now.

You could try dropping your volume for a while, and you'll probably see strength increases quickly. Instead of doing 3 sets of each exercise, do only one hard set, and then try to beat it next time. This might give you a strength boost for a while.

Don't worry though, it's still the same game, just a different starting point.

Dirk

[Gradman]

I've been in similar situations in the past, where certain lifts just didn't want to go anywhere, and it can be frustrating, but i've gotten through it in a few ways.

The first plateau i hit, i changed my program pretty radically to a program in which i slowed every rep of every exercise to something like 3 second positives, and 5 second negatives. Doing that, i used the rest pause method, and i did a few sets of that for each exercise. My weight went down dramatically, but came up over about 6 weeks. Then, to test out i went back to a more conventional lifting style and found my strength had gone through the roof.

The next time i hit a rut, i changed up my program once again and tackled a heavier, 4-6 rep range, basically following the Max-OT program with some minor changes. Then as soon as i added squats and deads to the mix, my strength again went through the roof.

These are only my experiences, and certainly not what will work, but i guess its a guideline of some things to try to bring your strength up a bit.

Mind you, with 17 inch guns, i wouldn't be too embarassed

[skelooth]

Skelooth,

Don't worry about it. This is probably the most pronounced case of this I've ever heard of, but don't worry.

It sounds like you just don't have a very good neurological system.

That's actually very interesting. I have read about that, but I never heard about someone being weak because their neuro system wasn't good. I have also read that this system can get better with training. With time, do you think my strength will slowly catch up to my size? I can't help but think it's tottally ridiculous at how weak some of my lifts are!

That's it, doesn't matter where you start out at, you still have to get stonger to get bigger. When you get up to weights that other smaller people normally do, you'll prbably be even bigger than you are now.

You could try dropping your volume for a while, and you'll probably see strength increases quickly. Instead of doing 3 sets of each exercise, do only one hard set, and then try to beat it next time. This might give you a strength boost for a while.

Don't worry though, it's still the same game, just a different starting point.

Thank you for the help, you have given me a good starting point to begin researching how to fix this 'problem'. It's scary to think that i will get even bigger, I've never bulked before in my life, and I've actually lost a good 15lbs of lbm in the past few months.

As for dropping volume, I have tried that, and my strength started plummeting, also it would not be good for my current set of goals (losing fat and all).

Thanks again!

Do you have any advice for evening out the strength between my two arms? I have been doing my left arm until failure, then just matching the reps with my right. Is that proper?

Dirk[/QUOTE]

[skelooth]

I've been in similar situations in the past, where certain lifts just didn't want to go anywhere, and it can be frustrating, but i've gotten through it in a few ways.

The first plateau i hit, i changed my program pretty radically to a program in which i slowed every rep of every exercise to something like 3 second positives, and 5 second negatives. Doing that, i used the rest pause method, and i did a few sets of that for each exercise. My weight went down dramatically, but came up over about 6 weeks. Then, to test out i went back to a more conventional lifting style and found my strength had gone through the roof.

The next time i hit a rut, i changed up my program once again and tackled a heavier, 4-6 rep range, basically following the Max-OT program with some minor changes. Then as soon as i added squats and deads to the mix, my strength again went through the roof.

These are only my experiences, and certainly not what will work, but i guess its a guideline of some things to try to bring your strength up a bit.

Mind you, with 17 inch guns, i wouldn't be too embarassed

Until you are struggling with 15lbs dumbells, LOL

And yeah, I did a 4 seconds up 4 seconds down routine and my strength shot up a lot, but I am starting to lose a lot of that strength. When I first came off of it I was bench pressing reps of 205lbs, now I'm down to repping 190-195lbs

[Gradman]

Until you are struggling with 15lbs dumbells, LOL

And yeah, I did a 4 seconds up 4 seconds down routine and my strength shot up a lot, but I am starting to lose a lot of that strength. When I first came off of it I was bench pressing reps of 205lbs, now I'm down to repping 190-195lbs

hmmm, that does sound like overtraining...perhaps you could try the low volume that Dirk D. suggested.

I've not tried a low volume program like that before but he's a wise member.

Incidentally, while i do hope you gain strength, you are doing good for the world. I guarantee there's a stack of gym noobs "clean and curling" 5 times more weight then they can handle, seeing you the giant lifting relatively light weights and realising they're doing something wrong

Anyway, update us with how you go!

[skelooth]

hmmm, that does sound like overtraining...perhaps you could try the low volume that Dirk D. suggested.

I've not tried a low volume program like that before but he's a wise member.

Incidentally, while i do hope you gain strength, you are doing good for the world. I guarantee there's a stack of gym noobs "clean and curling" 5 times more weight then they can handle, seeing you the giant lifting relatively light weights and realising they're doing something wrong

Anyway, update us with how you go!

Will do

But any advice on that uneven strength issue?? I could up the weight on my right arm, but i don't want things to get even more unbalanced. How should I deal with that while training?

[Dirk D.]

Skelooth,

Write down your basic routine for us. Days, exercises, and how many sets and reps normally. A strength decrease is normally a very obvious indication of overtraining, and you won't gain an ounce of strength if you're consistently overtraining. You say you're cutting as well, so you're in a caloric deficiency, which makes it all that much harder to gain strength, as well as making it all that easier to overtrain.

You won't have to necessarily "bulk" to gain strength. You'll have to work within your capabilities though, given your caloric deficiency. Use you diet and cardio to loose fat weight, use the weights for what they were made, gaining strength and stimulating muscle growth. Don't use weights for burning calories.

You may not be able to necessarily change your neuro system. People usually make all their neuro gains in the first few months of training. You can stop your strength losses and start gaining again though, that's fixable. It might be hard while you're eating a reduced-cal diet though, since as you loose weight, you might also be loosing muscle mass as well. You say you were gaining strength before, and now you're loosing and you haven't changed your diet. You have lost weight though, and given weight, calorie, strength, and recovery relationships, your needs are always changing. What worked two months ago, may not work at all now.

Post your routine as then we might be able to help you a bit better,

Dirk

[gymaddict01]

skelooth,

one other question, ive actually had this thread on my mind since my first post to you lol. my question is, if you are that weak in your lifts (no offense), how did you get those huge arms? did you have lots of strength and it all just drained out of you?

[SollyOlly]

It seems pretty obvious your goals are strength and not size?



If your goals are size, who cares.

[skelooth]

skelooth,

one other question, ive actually had this thread on my mind since my first post to you lol. my question is, if you are that weak in your lifts (no offense), how did you get those huge arms? did you have lots of strength and it all just drained out of you?

I am naturally gigantic. I don't know why. It's definitely genetic because my father and many of my uncles are huge, the only difference is, they have actual strength! It's like I have the size w/o the strength. Here are some more pics of me so you can see what kind of mass I'm dealing with, and why I am so frustrated at my lifts....
http://patrickavella.com/tricep.jpg
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...hmentid=184368 (legs)
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...hmentid=184899 (back double bi)

As far as strength/size goes, my calves are the only thing proportionate, my calves are 18.5" and are MEGA powerful. That's the only thing on me that is LOL.


Okay, back to my routine.

I keep everything written down/logged, but i leave it at the gym, so i am going by memory. Right now I am on my 6th week, so after 2 more weeks I am taking a week off.

Sunday: 30 minutes stationary bike

Monday: legs
squats , 4 sets, aiming for 10 reps.
leg press, 3 sets, aiming for 10 reps
leg extension 2 sets, aiming for 10 reps
leg curl 3 sets 10 reps each
standing calve 3sets 14 reps raise slow....
seated calve 2 sets 10 reps raise slow

Tuesday: step aerobics approximately 50 minutes long (require college course)

Wednesday back and biceps
assisted widegrip pull up, 3 sets, aiming for 10 reps
db row, 3 sets 10 reps,
bent over unerhand bb row, 3 sets 10 reps
preacher curl, 3 sets 6-8 reps
concentration curl, 3 sets, 6-8 reps (I want to up this rep range, but arms are uneven...)
hammer curl 3 sets, 6-8 reps
30 minutes treadmill ~3.8mph

(**** I just realized I haven't been hitting traps)

thursday: step aerobics again

friday chest/tri/shoulder
flat db press 3x10
incline db press 3x10
decline db press 3x10
seated db shoulder press 3x10
side lat raise 2x10
rear lat raise 2x10
front lat raise 2x10
dips 3x10
seated tricep extension 2x10
30 minutes treadmill ~3.8mph

sat rest. Sometimes I rest on sunday too.... so sunday is an optional thing.

Wow i'm really upset that i haven't been doing shrugs.... maybe i'll do them by themselves with a bunch of sit ups tomorrow....

Also this is all by memory, my sheet of paper is at the gym :P

[skelooth]

It seems pretty obvious your goals are strength and not size?



If your goals are size, who cares.

Yeah, my goals are size. I want to be a mass monster one day. I'm starting late in the game, but I think I can do it :P But, it's weird that I'm weak...

[gymaddict01]

dude your calfs AND quads are huge.

your routine looks fine man, as for the shrugs, i do my shrugs on my chest tri shoulder day and throw it in at the end bc it doesnt take long for me to get three or 4 sets of db/machine shrugs in.

i still am at a loss for words from your dilema. The one thing that i suggest is to listen to Dirk D. tho, very smart guy and everything he's told you adds up and seems to be good ideas.

[skelooth]

dude your calfs AND quads are huge.

your routine looks fine man, as for the shrugs, i do my shrugs on my chest tri shoulder day and throw it in at the end bc it doesnt take long for me to get three or 4 sets of db/machine shrugs in.

i still am at a loss for words from your dilema. The one thing that i suggest is to listen to Dirk D. tho, very smart guy and everything he's told you adds up and seems to be good ideas.

As my friend likes to say "All Show, And No Go!" lol

But i never got advice on how to even out the strength between my left and right arms.

Should I go back to slow lifts? (4 up 4 down type of routine) when i come back from my week off?

[SollyOlly]

who gives a flying **** what your friends say



you're not fat


you have alot of potential



would you rather let your muscles do the talking ? or would you rather explain to someone how much curl.

[alexc]

Always do the same amount of reps for each arm, I spent about 2-3 months evening out my arm strength. Make sure your form is clean on back work, and that your not favoring one side when you do your hardest reps.

[Gradman]

I am naturally gigantic. I don't know why. It's definitely genetic because my father and many of my uncles are huge, the only difference is, they have actual strength! It's like I have the size w/o the strength. Here are some more pics of me so you can see what kind of mass I'm dealing with, and why I am so frustrated at my lifts....
http://patrickavella.com/tricep.jpg
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...hmentid=184368 (legs)
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...hmentid=184899 (back double bi)

As far as strength/size goes, my calves are the only thing proportionate, my calves are 18.5" and are MEGA powerful. That's the only thing on me that is LOL.


Okay, back to my routine.

I keep everything written down/logged, but i leave it at the gym, so i am going by memory. Right now I am on my 6th week, so after 2 more weeks I am taking a week off.

Sunday: 30 minutes stationary bike

Monday: legs
squats , 4 sets, aiming for 10 reps.
leg press, 3 sets, aiming for 10 reps
leg extension 2 sets, aiming for 10 reps
leg curl 3 sets 10 reps each
standing calve 3sets 14 reps raise slow....
seated calve 2 sets 10 reps raise slow

Tuesday: step aerobics approximately 50 minutes long (require college course)

Wednesday back and biceps
assisted widegrip pull up, 3 sets, aiming for 10 reps
db row, 3 sets 10 reps,
bent over unerhand bb row, 3 sets 10 reps
preacher curl, 3 sets 6-8 reps
concentration curl, 3 sets, 6-8 reps (I want to up this rep range, but arms are uneven...)
hammer curl 3 sets, 6-8 reps
30 minutes treadmill ~3.8mph

(**** I just realized I haven't been hitting traps)

thursday: step aerobics again

friday chest/tri/shoulder
flat db press 3x10
incline db press 3x10
decline db press 3x10
seated db shoulder press 3x10
side lat raise 2x10
rear lat raise 2x10
front lat raise 2x10
dips 3x10
seated tricep extension 2x10
30 minutes treadmill ~3.8mph

sat rest. Sometimes I rest on sunday too.... so sunday is an optional thing.

Wow i'm really upset that i haven't been doing shrugs.... maybe i'll do them by themselves with a bunch of sit ups tomorrow....

Also this is all by memory, my sheet of paper is at the gym :P

First things first, you look good champ, so congrats on that!

Now, as Dirk was saying, you've said you're cutting right now. If you're cutting, i'd maybe suggest that's a pretty hard hitting routine to do.

How does your diet look?

If you were making gains on a similar program, was your diet different then?

I see a lot of cardio, so for the amount of lifting you're doing i do see potential for overtraining. My suggestion would be at this time to peg back on the volume just a tad. It's the kind of program i'd normally go for, and that's just me personally, but not during a state of caloric deficiency while cutting.

Just before i go any further, just need to know how your diet looks

[Dirk D.]

Skelooth,

Well, congrates my friend, you're a genetic marval when it comes to size. The vast majority don't understand anything about genetics, and you're one of the best examples I know of when it comes to just having it. You're right, there are people who can lift heaps more than you, but will never hit an 18 inch calf. Most of the people here would kill for your "problem."

About your strength issue, your game is the same as everyone elses, regardless of how big you are. You're naturally big, and to make your muscles even bigger, you'll have to make them stronger. The oposite is also true; to make them stronger, you'll have to make them bigger. As I said, you're doing the same thing we all are, you're just starting at a very different spot.

From looking at your routine, I'd say you're doing way too much work if you're expecting to gain strength, especially if you're on a calorie deficient diet. For example, you are doing 9 sets for back and 9 for biceps on Wednesday. Given the weak link factor, you're actually doing 18 sets for biceps every week. This is too much work for a cal deficient man, and will send you sailing into overtraining land. Cut way back on your exercise, and use the cardio to burn fat, not the weights. Try doing 3 hard sets of Barbell Rows, 2 of shrugs, and 2 hard sets of Barbell Curls. Record what you do, and next time that workout comes around again, try to beat it in either reps and/or weight. That's it, that's progressive overload right there. You shouldn't exhaust your muscles, or destroy them, or feel drained after your workout. Don't go by feeling, go by performance. If you feel drained after your workout, you're workout has long become counterproductive.

It's the effort you put into your sets that will make you stronger, not the amount of sets you do. I can't stress that enough. And more hard sets won't mean more results either(overtraining). In many ways, the opposite is true. Make a new routine for your other muscles based on this principle, and don't spend more than half an hour in the weight room three days a week. AT MOST!

As far as balancing your arms out, I'd suggest using a barbell only for a while. People use dumbells thinking that they can just do more sets for their weaker arm, but this is wrong, and if it does it will take a long time. Remember, it's not the amount of work you do, but how hard you do it. Using a barbell will make your left arm have to work all that much harder to do it's share of the work. You'll probably fail when your left arm gives out, or your right arm might be able to assist your left in completing a 'forced rep' or two. Don't do more sets though. Your left arm will have to work harder than your right to do the barbell curl, which is what you want.

That said, this may also be a problem with your muscle bellies. Sometimes people have different length muscle bellies in their two arms. Like the left bi might be a bit shorter than the right one. My left one is shaped differently that my right, and my left tricep is much shorter than my right one. This makes my right arm naturally a bit bigger than my left. My left arm was only slightly weaker when I started training, by two reps or so, but I've pretty much sticked to two handed lifts for the last while, and they are now surprisingly exactly even in strength.

Another thing you can do to increase stregth relatively rapidly is to try negative only training for a while. A majority of my contacts who've tried it have reported that the strength increases on the negative translated, though not proportionally, to positive stregth. Some, unfortunately, have noticed no strength increase translation when going back to positive training. It may be worth considering. If you've never tried it, I can give you an explanation if you're interested. As for rep speed, always do your negative in a relatively slow manner, like 4-6 seconds down. Your positive you can do relatively explosively, but don't let momentum be the deciding factor.

One last thing. By the way energy depletion in the body works, and what the body uses as fule, given energy levels and type of activity, you should always, not matter what your goals (muscle gain or fat loss), do cardio after weight training. If you want to do it on the same day, that's fine, just use weights first and cardio second.

Cheers,
Dirk