Over 1 year of knee pain and heavy depression

[Max Omega]

Greetings to whomever that is going to read my depressing injury,

From the first day I started weight lifting and exercising seriously, my attitude has always been positive to reaching the peak of my body image. I would invest my time into buying healthier foods and getting the right amount of nutrition to fuel my body to the pinnacle of recovery and performance.

Ever since then, everything has been a complete demise. My lifting habits have been inconsistent. Nutrition has been somewhat debatable, mostly due to my depression from my ongoing injury and disability.

So far, I've had this knee pain for over a year. I went to a orthopedic surgeon and he suggested that I'm young (age 22) and take a few months off from doing anything that would affect my healing process. But guess what? The only thing that have improved was my ability to straighten my knee without chronic pain, unlike when I first injured my knee(s). Other than that improvement, nothing much has changed.

The on-going pain has now spread to the back of my left knee and it feels like the muscle is tight, which prevents me from sleeping with a straight leg. To make matters worst, my right knee now is having a similar problem to my left, which makes both my knees painful to walk on and untrustworthy.

To end my rant for you readers, I've consider committing suicide because nothing has been going well for me. The depression has caused me to give up most of my ventures in business and my lackluster performance in college has also been affected upon. I'm still surprised that my girlfriend has stood by me this long, even after my numerous attempts to degrade her and abuse her emotionally. Which I've felt complete guilt towards, even till today after our 9th month together. So I really don't know what else to do but spend thousands of dollars on a NYU sports medicine specialist and hopefully my insurance (GHI CUNY) can cover that...

BTW, I'm open to any comments. My specific knee defeat has not yet been confirmed. MRI claimed it was a meniscus tear on the outer rim but that came up as a false reading, then something else was detected that mentioned a 7mm something something (I lost the MRI letter) but that was also false. If anyone wants to see my MRI scan, I will be happy to post it up on this post.

Until then, Live well and I sincerely appreciate the attention.

[mjemirzian]

Did you have any problems before lifting?
How long had you been lifting before the injury?
What leg related exercises were you using in your program?
What have you been doing to try to recover?

[Max Omega]

I apologize for my lack of description that might of caused the problem.

Did you have any problems before lifting?
No. When I first started, my knees were more than perfect.

How long had you been lifting before the injury?
One year, I've been lifting for 2 1/2 years in total.

What leg related exercises were you using in your program?
Squats, leg press, leg curls, calf raises. My squats might be considered too deep in peoples opinion.. aka below 90 degrees.

What have you been doing to try to recover?
I've went through 2 months of physical therapy with heat treatments and ultrasound. Then I discontinued that and started doing light exercises for my injured now. Now both knees are affected and it makes it harder on both, in terms of exercising and recovery.

Hopefully that makes my situation clearer, if not, let me know.

[mjemirzian]

I'd guess the culprit there would be your squat form. What sort of form were you using?

The most dangerous kind of squat form is when your stance is narrow but your ROM is very deep - this is dangerous for your lower back and knees. Ending your downward ROM anywhere around your knees will put a lot of stress on them as well.

You also shouldn't leave out issues of muscular imbalance.. the most common issue is the quads dominating the hams so powerfully that your knees begin to shift out of alignment.

Stretching is also very important as your muscular flexibility will actually decrease the more you work them out due to the stress and compression.

Have you been doing a lot of cardio with poor footwear and no orthotics? That might also aggravate your problem.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drsquat12.htm
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/handout...eeinjuries.htm
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html

Read all of this and see if any of it connects with your issue.

[*KNUCKLEHEAD*]

i dont wana come across to harsh but dude, u are in need of a serious attitude adjustment brother; both my parents have cancer, mom had her spleen removed a month ago and neither of them have the defeated attitude u are sportin. i think u gotta take an hour and walk or wheel yourself thru a hospital and see just how much better off u are than alotta people.

set yourself up for success and i bet things will start fallin into place for you - start eatin right, start takin Glucosamine and Chondroitin , lay off the squats and heavy leg exercises; maybe get a consultation or 2 with hotshot doctors specializin in sports injuries. get your chin up, your shoulders back, and be grateful for what u have man... things could be alot worse!

[Max Omega]

i dont wana come across to harsh but dude, u gotta get your **** together brother; both my parents have cancer, mom had her spleen removed a month ago and neither of them have the defeated attitude u are sportin. i think u gotta walk thru a hospital and see just how much better off u are than alotta people.

start eatin right, start takin Glucosamine and Chondroitin , lay off the squats and heavy leg exercises; get your chin up, your shoulders back, and be grateful for what u have man... things could be alot worse.

I had the same attitude towards my current position. You're completely right and nothing you've said is consider harsh in anyway. It is just that I'm not accustomed to this situation, I've never had such a sustaining injury where it prevented me from doing anything active.

My attitude could be directed towards my spoiled childhood and self-centered attitude towards most situations in this world.

Sorry to hear about your parents, I wish them a safe and speedy recovery. A spleen removal does sound quite serious :x

[Max Omega]

I'd guess the culprit there would be your squat form. What sort of form were you using?

The most dangerous kind of squat form is when your stance is narrow but your ROM is very deep - this is dangerous for your lower back and knees. Ending your downward ROM anywhere around your knees will put a lot of stress on them as well.

You also shouldn't leave out issues of muscular imbalance.. the most common issue is the quads dominating the hams so powerfully that your knees begin to shift out of alignment.

Stretching is also very important as your muscular flexibility will actually decrease the more you work them out due to the stress and compression.

Have you been doing a lot of cardio with poor footwear and no orthotics? That might also aggravate your problem.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drsquat12.htm
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/handout...eeinjuries.htm
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html

Read all of this and see if any of it connects with your issue.

That is another problem. I have a extreme flat feed condition and that could've caused the injury also. My orthotics were recently given in for repair and I'm going to pick them up next week, hopefully it'll help.

[*KNUCKLEHEAD*]

very refreshing to see such an openess to suggestions! u are on the right track sir.

have u tried any joint supps like chondroitin? worked great for my shoulder and my grandmas hips

[Max Omega]

very refreshing to see such an openess to suggestions! u are on the right track sir.

have u tried any joint supps like chondroitin? worked great for my shoulder and my grandmas hips

I've been using animal flex and primaforce elastamine back and fourth. In terms of results? nothing has been noticeable.

My orthopedic surgeon said that chondroitin and glucosamine are a scam. :/

[*KNUCKLEHEAD*]

I've been using animal flex and primaforce elastamine back and fourth. In terms of results? nothing has been noticeable.

My orthopedic surgeon said that chondroitin and glucosamine are a scam. :/

wow! well that placebo effect sure worked for us.

[King Viscera]

Greetings to whomever that is going to read my depressing injury,

From the first day I started weight lifting and exercising seriously, my attitude has always been positive to reaching the peak of my body image. I would invest my time into buying healthier foods and getting the right amount of nutrition to fuel my body to the pinnacle of recovery and performance.

Ever since then, everything has been a complete demise. My lifting habits have been inconsistent. Nutrition has been somewhat debatable, mostly due to my depression from my ongoing injury and disability.

So far, I've had this knee pain for over a year. I went to a orthopedic surgeon and he suggested that I'm young (age 22) and take a few months off from doing anything that would affect my healing process. But guess what? The only thing that have improved was my ability to straighten my knee without chronic pain, unlike when I first injured my knee(s). Other than that improvement, nothing much has changed.

The on-going pain has now spread to the back of my left knee and it feels like the muscle is tight, which prevents me from sleeping with a straight leg. To make matters worst, my right knee now is having a similar problem to my left, which makes both my knees painful to walk on and untrustworthy.

To end my rant for you readers, I've consider committing suicide because nothing has been going well for me. The depression has caused me to give up most of my ventures in business and my lackluster performance in college has also been affected upon. I'm still surprised that my girlfriend has stood by me this long, even after my numerous attempts to degrade her and abuse her emotionally. Which I've felt complete guilt towards, even till today after our 9th month together. So I really don't know what else to do but spend thousands of dollars on a NYU sports medicine specialist and hopefully my insurance (GHI CUNY) can cover that...

BTW, I'm open to any comments. My specific knee defeat has not yet been confirmed. MRI claimed it was a meniscus tear on the outer rim but that came up as a false reading, then something else was detected that mentioned a 7mm something something (I lost the MRI letter) but that was also false. If anyone wants to see my MRI scan, I will be happy to post it up on this post.

Until then, Live well and I sincerely appreciate the attention.

Well, you had 2 mris that showed abnomalities so that already points in the direction that there is a problem that needs to be pin pointed. Did you get an arthroscope yet for further investigation/ confirmation? This is important, discuss it with your doctor.

Study knee anotomy as well and do your homework. Really embrace your disability and become an expert in the technicalities of anatomy and physiology of the knee. Its easier to communicate with the doctor this way, straight to the point/ all business.

The reality of the situation is that youre gonna have to fork out the cash and try to reslove these problems otherwise this will destroy you and you will devlope psychological problems from this on top of possible chronic damage/ degeneration in the knee.

You have to make this your number 1 priority/ goal in life right now. Close communication with a good sports medicine ortho is crucial.

[Max Omega]

Well, you had 2 mris that showed abnomalities so that already points in the direction that there is a problem that needs to be pin pointed. Did you get an arthroscope yet for further investigation/ confirmation? This is important, discuss it with your doctor.

Study knee anotomy as well and do your homework. Really embrace your disability and become an expert in the technicalities of anatomy and physiology of the knee. Its easier to communicate with the doctor this way, straight to the point/ all business.

The reality of the situation is that youre gonna have to fork out the cash and try to reslove these problems otherwise this will destroy you and you will devlope psychological problems from this on top of possible chronic damage/ degeneration in the knee.

You have to make this your number 1 priority/ goal in life right now. Close communication with a good sports medicine ortho is crucial.

Wow, great response. I'm going to go see a sports medicine doctor this month, after my new health insurance kicks in.

[mwhitehead]

Chronic pain is no fun at all. No matter what the MRI says the important thing to remember there is a big difference between the condition (what MRI's, Xrays, etc. tell you) and the position (what postural position your knee is in). The condition is not the cause of your pain, no matter what anyone tells you. The position is the underlying problem. So what is the position that is causing the problem? Here is a good way to start getting an idea. Take your shoes off and wearing shorts stand in front of a full length mirror. Stand natually and relaxed. Now look at where your feet point - do they point out? or one points out more than the other? Then where your knees point - do they point out also? or do they point in? or one in and one out? Then compare if your feet and knees point in the same direction or different directions? They both should point straight ahead in-line with each other. When both feet and knees point straight naturally, you will have no more knee pain. It's that simple. So how do you get them to point straight? By correcting your posture. Go get the book "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue and do the knee pain exercises. Don't leave any out, do them in order, do them every day, and let me know what is happening after a couple weeks of them.

In conclusion: do not get caught up in WHAT is wrong with your knees, focus on what POSITION your knees are in. And since the position is the cause of your pain, that is always fixable.

Good luck, and get back to me with questions after you get going.
Matt

[Max Omega]

Chronic pain is no fun at all. No matter what the MRI says the important thing to remember there is a big difference between the condition (what MRI's, Xrays, etc. tell you) and the position (what postural position your knee is in). The condition is not the cause of your pain, no matter what anyone tells you. The position is the underlying problem. So what is the position that is causing the problem? Here is a good way to start getting an idea. Take your shoes off and wearing shorts stand in front of a full length mirror. Stand natually and relaxed. Now look at where your feet point - do they point out? or one points out more than the other? Then where your knees point - do they point out also? or do they point in? or one in and one out? Then compare if your feet and knees point in the same direction or different directions? They both should point straight ahead in-line with each other. When both feet and knees point straight naturally, you will have no more knee pain. It's that simple. So how do you get them to point straight? By correcting your posture. Go get the book "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue and do the knee pain exercises. Don't leave any out, do them in order, do them every day, and let me know what is happening after a couple weeks of them.

In conclusion: do not get caught up in WHAT is wrong with your knees, focus on what POSITION your knees are in. And since the position is the cause of your pain, that is always fixable.

Good luck, and get back to me with questions after you get going.
Matt

Matt,

I have serious flat feet and I'm sure my feet and knees aren't aligned in proper position...

[mwhitehead]

Good, now check out the book I said which will explain why and show you how to fix it. Surgery, orthotics, etc. only address the symtom and that is not what you want to do...you want to address the underlying problem. the book will show you how and it is easy! Go to work!

[Buff_Daddy]

Matt,

I have serious flat feet and I'm sure my feet and knees aren't aligned in proper position...

Hi there , while i have never had knee problems, I have had shoulder problems and know how frustrating on going injuries can be.

From what you've discussed it appears some damage may be done already and in this case I would heavily push to get an arthroscopic surgery done (where they use a camera through a tiny incision...its both diagnostic and surgical at the same time...which means if they dont see anything , you are back to action in a week...and if they do, they can fix it on the spot.)

From a more preventative measure, (and in the meantime), I would first get the flat feet thing looked at properly and make sure you are properly aligned in that regards. That would be the first thing I would look at as it could be considered a "root" cause if not fixed.

Next, carefully look at your squat form.

Ditch leg extensions and leg curls and even leg press (in the grand scheme they dont do much anyway and put a considerable amount of stress on the knees.) Squats are actually very protective of the knee joint , but you may not be able to do them until healed.

Best of luck.

[Max Omega]

Hi there , while i have never had knee problems, I have had shoulder problems and know how frustrating on going injuries can be.

From what you've discussed it appears some damage may be done already and in this case I would heavily push to get an arthroscopic surgery done (where they use a camera through a tiny incision...its both diagnostic and surgical at the same time...which means if they dont see anything , you are back to action in a week...and if they do, they can fix it on the spot.)

From a more preventative measure, (and in the meantime), I would first get the flat feet thing looked at properly and make sure you are properly aligned in that regards. That would be the first thing I would look at as it could be considered a "root" cause if not fixed.

Next, carefully look at your squat form.

Ditch leg extensions and leg curls and even leg press (in the grand scheme they dont do much anyway and put a considerable amount of stress on the knees.) Squats are actually very protective of the knee joint , but you may not be able to do them until healed.

Best of luck.

Well, I'm in the process of having that option completed this month. Getting surgery is not as easy as it seems. Sometimes it might get delayed up to 6 months until the procedure can be completed....

Not to mention I have class as of now and that makes it even harder.....

[mwhitehead]

Well, I'm in the process of having that option completed this month. Getting surgery is not as easy as it seems. Sometimes it might get delayed up to 6 months until the procedure can be completed....

Not to mention I have class as of now and that makes it even harder.....

Surgery taking a while could be a blessing for you. In the mean time check out the book "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue. You will probably not feel the need for surgery after a couple weeks of doing the exercises in the book.

[Max Omega]

I was just thinking today. Is it possible that I have arthritis?

[Fernis]

To end my rant for you readers, I've consider committing suicide because nothing has been going well for me. The depression has caused me to give up most of my ventures in business

This also happened to me. I didn't feel like doing anything anymore, I lost the drive, I don't know, I just felt unmotivated.

I think I may slowly be getting out of this hole of despair, but some feelings of sadness are still there.

Just hang on and try to get through this as best you can, I know how it is, I've felt it, and it's not pretty. I want to get back to my normal life as soon as possible, and start being productive again. And I hope the same for you.

[Melanter]

Hey Man

I'm by no means an expert on body building or anything like that. But my mom has has back problems for almost all of her life, and had gone to many different doctors, each with different diagnoses. But eventually she did find a doctor who has seemed to find out what the actual problem is, and shes treating it and feeling alot better.

So all I can say is keep trying, see specialists, different doctors, try different types of cures, eventually you'll get to the bottom of it.

[Complex757]

Why don't you go to a doctor

[FlT4Ever]

I was just thinking today. Is it possible that I have arthritis?

Sounds exactly like you have osteochondritis dissecans in both knees. One worst than the other. It does happen to some under the age of 25. I had it since 14, got my 1st surgery at 16 for a total of 7 surgery so far AND I'm not done with them, trust me. I KNOW this topic and I know the depression you speak of, especially if you used to be an athletic freak like I was. You need to get that lost MRI back cause I suspect you an articular mouse in the leg you "sometimes" can't straighten, even when you sleep.

I would also welcome you to a little place on the web I now call a second home: www.kneeguru.co.uk ...and like King said, get informed cause no one else will do it for you and no orthopedic surgeons can feel what you feel. that is your way out and it can't be simpler than that.

Everytime you do a visit to see an ortho. print your questions in advance and be prepared. If he can't answer a question right away, ask that he gets back to you and don't leave until he takes notes of it.

You have an head start, USE IT and DON'T go through what I did cause its a big regret to live with, it lasts a lifetime and it never goes away.

If you want more tips, PM me.

PS. Any OS (orthopedic surgeon) you would seek are sports OS they're private or at the University. Regular OS will do more damage than good to any athlete.

[Roke]

Try glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate. Go to a health food store, they sell better quality ones.

[FlT4Ever]

Glucosamine sulfate with MSM and you may also include some Celadrin if the pain persist. Still, find out what is wrong now.

[Max Omega]

As of this moment, I'm waiting for my insurance to switch over so I can see this guy http://www.drewstein.com.

For the time being, I'm just doing some moderate weight lifting and swimming to keep in shape. My knees are feeling better these couple of days and it has been raining.

Seems like the pain started to calm down when I stop icing my knee and started heating it and wearing flexible knee braces to retain heat. Plus warming up the knee for 15 minutes on the bicycle also helps.

BTW, there is no swelling or deformation visible to the knee.

[Max Omega]

This also happened to me. I didn't feel like doing anything anymore, I lost the drive, I don't know, I just felt unmotivated.

I think I may slowly be getting out of this hole of despair, but some feelings of sadness are still there.

Just hang on and try to get through this as best you can, I know how it is, I've felt it, and it's not pretty. I want to get back to my normal life as soon as possible, and start being productive again. And I hope the same for you.

When did it start? and what have you done to diagnosis the problem?

[Max Omega]

Sounds exactly like you have osteochondritis dissecans in both knees. One worst than the other. It does happen to some under the age of 25. I had it since 14, got my 1st surgery at 16 for a total of 7 surgery so far AND I'm not done with them, trust me. I KNOW this topic and I know the depression you speak of, especially if you used to be an athletic freak like I was. You need to get that lost MRI back cause I suspect you an articular mouse in the leg you "sometimes" can't straighten, even when you sleep.

I would also welcome you to a little place on the web I now call a second home: www.kneeguru.co.uk ...and like King said, get informed cause no one else will do it for you and no orthopedic surgeons can feel what you feel. that is your way out and it can't be simpler than that.

Everytime you do a visit to see an ortho. print your questions in advance and be prepared. If he can't answer a question right away, ask that he gets back to you and don't leave until he takes notes of it.

You have an head start, USE IT and DON'T go through what I did cause its a big regret to live with, it lasts a lifetime and it never goes away.

If you want more tips, PM me.

PS. Any OS (orthopedic surgeon) you would seek are sports OS they're private or at the University. Regular OS will do more damage than good to any athlete.

What knee problems did you have?

[Max Omega]

Why don't you go to a doctor

If you have read my first post. I've seen multiple doctors already and my journey to discover one that gives me an effective reason for surgery continues.

[Max Omega]

Just another update. I've recently went to a NYU doctor and from the newest MRI, it seems like my cartilage are perfect...There is no chips or damages to it what so ever... Kinda makes me pardon why would the first MRI result comes back as a meniscus tear? Silly radiologists (^_^)

I've included one image of my recent MRI, there is over 125 from the disc that the MRI clinic supplied me with. This was done with "high contract" to show more details. The brighter linings are my cartilage lining.