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  1. #61
    Registered User daaavid's Avatar
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    Awesome thread, cheers.
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  2. #62
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    Thanks for the post, helped a lot
    "The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."-Muhammad Ali

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  3. #63
    has a good size pen0r backbrahh's Avatar
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    in on this.

    thanks for the write up...will look into this.
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  4. #64
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    flip cleans just changed my whole life, no lie.
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  5. #65
    I Work Out RMBros's Avatar
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    I'm walking through this and liking the progression so far.

    Really, really hard to keep the ego in check and do any kind of DLs for form rather than max.

    However, I'm having a bit of an issue with Drop Snatches - a ton of shoulder pain with the wide grip and behind the neck combo.

    I'm guessing there are four choices:

    Man up and do as many reps as I can with good form, even if they hurt.
    Drop to a weight lower than an empty bar and see if that helps (it may not, the motion feels like it may hurt without any weight).
    Change something about the setup to fit my pain/rom limitations - seems silly to do if I'm training form here.
    Skip them altogether and go to another form-training movement.

    Which do you guys think is right?

    I'm going to try some dislocate stretches (broomstick overhead and push the hands back as far as they will go) for the pain/flexibility issues - I'm having trouble getting my OH Squat far enough back as well - but I'm wondering if I'm automatically training bad form if I'm in pain during the movement.
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  6. #66
    Olympic Lifter raffiki's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RMBros View Post
    However, I'm having a bit of an issue with Drop Snatches - a ton of shoulder pain with the wide grip and behind the neck combo.
    Keep working on dislocates. How narrow of a grip can you do them with?

    Change your grip for the exercises. Try narrow or wider and see if anything feel better.

    Originally Posted by RMBros View Post
    I'm having trouble getting my OH Squat far enough back as well - but I'm wondering if I'm automatically training bad form if I'm in pain during the movement.
    What does "back far enough" mean? You can't get down far enough?
    "However, the strength of the hamstring muscles is crucial to fully exploit the strength potential of the quads and ultimately the vertical force that the athlete is able to impart to the barbell." - Andrew Charniga, Jr.
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  7. #67
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    Originally Posted by raffiki View Post
    Keep working on dislocates. How narrow of a grip can you do them with?

    Change your grip for the exercises. Try narrow or wider and see if anything feel better.


    What does "back far enough" mean? You can't get down far enough?
    Not narrow at all for the dislocates - I'm just starting back and realized that I hadn't been doing them.

    For the OH Squats, "back far enough" was supposed to reference my shoulders, not my squat. Won't do anything less than A2G right now, because I'm trying to get used to the posture.

    I was trying to say that I'm having a hard time keeping the weight far enough back that I don't tip forward, but, after thinking about it, what I was probably really saying was "I have a bad habit of leaning forward when I squat and OH Squats really point that out because my shoulders aren't flexible enough to compensate for the forward lean."

    Can't blame the shoulders for everything. For the OH Squats I'll work the flexibility and form issues and I think I'll be fine. I'm just having a hard time unlearning the Good Morning style of squat motion that I could get away with doing PL squats.
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  8. #68
    I Work Out RMBros's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by raffiki View Post
    Keep working on dislocates. How narrow of a grip can you do them with?

    Change your grip for the exercises. Try narrow or wider and see if anything feel better.
    Had a good day in the gym yesterday and figured a few things out:

    Wider grip is better for OH Squats - I assumed that a narrower grip on OH Squats made them more stable and, therefore, easier - WRONG, at least in my case. Went all the way out to the collars, trying to approximate the 5-8 in from the head that I heard is the proper snatch grip width (not sure where the hell I picked that up, but the bar isn't wide enough to let me do it).

    All of the sudden, I was way more stable and had a ton less trouble with the squat.

    Hook Grip is easy - I was worrying about getting all tangled up when I racked the bar, but my flexibility must be a lot better than I had thought, because I could rack with no trouble, even if I forgot to release the Hook.

    Thumbs feel funny today, but that's just a reminder that I actually had a good day at the gym. DOMs for the Hook Grip, I guess.

    Snatches aren't as hard as they look - finally just broke down and tried the whole motion and it just sorta fell into place. Tons of little errors and inefficiencies, I'm sure, but the overall motion ain't so bad.

    Anyway, thought I'd say thanks for pointing me in the right direction. More questions will follow I'm sure, but I finally felt more comfortable.
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  9. #69
    Be the Blur feces99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RMBros View Post
    Had a good day in the gym yesterday and figured a few things out:

    Wider grip is better for OH Squats - I assumed that a narrower grip on OH Squats made them more stable and, therefore, easier - WRONG, at least in my case. Went all the way out to the collars, trying to approximate the 5-8 in from the head that I heard is the proper snatch grip width (not sure where the hell I picked that up, but the bar isn't wide enough to let me do it).

    All of the sudden, I was way more stable and had a ton less trouble with the squat.

    Hook Grip is easy - I was worrying about getting all tangled up when I racked the bar, but my flexibility must be a lot better than I had thought, because I could rack with no trouble, even if I forgot to release the Hook.

    Thumbs feel funny today, but that's just a reminder that I actually had a good day at the gym. DOMs for the Hook Grip, I guess.

    Snatches aren't as hard as they look - finally just broke down and tried the whole motion and it just sorta fell into place. Tons of little errors and inefficiencies, I'm sure, but the overall motion ain't so bad.

    Anyway, thought I'd say thanks for pointing me in the right direction. More questions will follow I'm sure, but I finally felt more comfortable.
    You'll want to incorporate narrow grip OHS into your training, that way if you miss a snatch behind you you'll have the shoulder flexibility to walk away instead of going to the hospital. But, for heavy OHS (unless you are insane and use a squat style jerk) use a wider grip. And for your snatch you want the bar either on or close to the pubic bone when you are standing up with the bar.
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  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by feces99 View Post
    You'll want to incorporate narrow grip OHS into your training, that way if you miss a snatch behind you you'll have the shoulder flexibility to walk away instead of going to the hospital. But, for heavy OHS (unless you are insane and use a squat style jerk) use a wider grip. And for your snatch you want the bar either on or close to the pubic bone when you are standing up with the bar.
    Good point about narrower grip OHS - seems to make sense.

    Funny that you mention the squat jerk......my next question/thread was going to be asking about the reasoning behind the split jerk and whether or not it made more sense to just squat jerk if you aren't going to compete. My thought was that the squat jerk was a more "athletically natural" position (some made up definition that only exists in my mind) and might have more carryover toward sports performance than a split jerk.

    And, clearly I'm insane, I'm 43 and learning a new style of lifting - I should be giving up and getting fat, according to what I see around me.
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  11. #71
    Olympic Lifter raffiki's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RMBros View Post
    Had a good day in the gym yesterday and figured a few things out:
    Glad it is working out for you.

    The split jerk generally allows the best results. It lets you get deep under the bar (if you have a good split), and also gives you wiggle room in case the bar isn't in just the right spot. You adjust for errors in the squat jerk.
    "However, the strength of the hamstring muscles is crucial to fully exploit the strength potential of the quads and ultimately the vertical force that the athlete is able to impart to the barbell." - Andrew Charniga, Jr.
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  12. #72
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    Hey, I just wanted to clarify something.

    Flip cleans...these are a different exercise from hang cleans, right? My understanding based on prior experience and having looked at the videos in here is that hang cleans involve more hip extension and you start pulling from just above the knee, while flip cleans you just start from the standing position dip down just enough to create some upward momentum, then get down under the bar.

    I just wanted to clarify this because what I've done in the past that I call hang cleans causes me to get into a low power clean position at the bottom...but it's still a power clean, not a squat clean. Today I decided to trial the flip clean in my training session (BTW I'm not doing the program in this thread - no hate on it; I'm just not focused primarily on O-lifting at the moment), and found that I intuitively got down into the full squat position and racked the weight at the bottom, rather than doing something crappy like power cleaning the weight up then riding it down to the bottom. Very useful learning exercise!
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  13. #73
    Olympic Lifter raffiki's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rdferguson View Post
    Hey, I just wanted to clarify something.

    Flip cleans...these are a different exercise from hang cleans, right? My understanding based on prior experience and having looked at the videos in here is that hang cleans involve more hip extension and you start pulling from just above the knee, while flip cleans you just start from the standing position dip down just enough to create some upward momentum, then get down under the bar.
    That's pretty much right. The goal is to make sure the bar is only high enough to squat under it. That way you CAN'T power clean it.

    Originally Posted by rdferguson View Post
    I just wanted to clarify this because what I've done in the past that I call hang cleans causes me to get into a low power clean position at the bottom...but it's still a power clean, not a squat clean. Today I decided to trial the flip clean in my training session (BTW I'm not doing the program in this thread - no hate on it; I'm just not focused primarily on O-lifting at the moment), and found that I intuitively got down into the full squat position and racked the weight at the bottom, rather than doing something crappy like power cleaning the weight up then riding it down to the bottom. Very useful learning exercise!
    Indeed. Even if you mostly do power cleans it helps you learn what a safe catching position feels like.
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    Is a drop snatch essentially a snatch balance? I can do everything on this list pretty well but I feel like I am using too much upper body when doing that instead of my legs and hips. Is the idea basically to keep the bar floating(as in it never moves) and only the rest of your body moves thus getting yourself underneath the bar? Anyways Im still confused about that.
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by MadDogMalesh View Post
    Is a drop snatch essentially a snatch balance? I can do everything on this list pretty well but I feel like I am using too much upper body when doing that instead of my legs and hips. Is the idea basically to keep the bar floating(as in it never moves) and only the rest of your body moves thus getting yourself underneath the bar? Anyways Im still confused about that.
    Some people distinguish between the two by saying that a snatch balance involves driving the bar up with the legs and then getting under and the drop snatch you only drop under the bar. Obviously you would use a heavier weight with the snatch balance, but that doesn't automatically make it better. For this program you would NOT use leg drive. The arms will be very active considering they are keeping the bar from crushing your skull.
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  16. #76
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    So, if I want to start phase 1 but continue progressing in my general strength training, would it be reasonable to do the phase 1 movements first then train immediately afterwards or the other way around? I assume doing the movements first would be better since I won't be fatigued. Is it unreasonable to do both on the same day?
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    Originally Posted by DrHolliday View Post
    So, if I want to start phase 1 but continue progressing in my general strength training, would it be reasonable to do the phase 1 movements first then train immediately afterwards or the other way around? I assume doing the movements first would be better since I won't be fatigued. Is it unreasonable to do both on the same day?
    I would have to know exactly what other training you plan on. The big question is what your goal is. You have to realize that if your energy is divided, then you can't expect optimum results from either thing. The broad stroke is to do technical and/or speed exercises first, then high tension/strength exercises after.
    "However, the strength of the hamstring muscles is crucial to fully exploit the strength potential of the quads and ultimately the vertical force that the athlete is able to impart to the barbell." - Andrew Charniga, Jr.
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  18. #78
    Registered User flipnch1nese7's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about learning snatches after seeing your progression. Thanks a ton, man.
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  19. #79
    Training For Chest Hair rdferguson's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rdferguson View Post
    Hey, I just wanted to clarify something.

    Flip cleans...these are a different exercise from hang cleans, right? My understanding based on prior experience and having looked at the videos in here is that hang cleans involve more hip extension and you start pulling from just above the knee, while flip cleans you just start from the standing position dip down just enough to create some upward momentum, then get down under the bar.

    I just wanted to clarify this because what I've done in the past that I call hang cleans causes me to get into a low power clean position at the bottom...but it's still a power clean, not a squat clean. Today I decided to trial the flip clean in my training session (BTW I'm not doing the program in this thread - no hate on it; I'm just not focused primarily on O-lifting at the moment), and found that I intuitively got down into the full squat position and racked the weight at the bottom, rather than doing something crappy like power cleaning the weight up then riding it down to the bottom. Very useful learning exercise!
    Just felt like updating. I've been getting more into the Olympic lifts since the above post and learning I actually could do it. I've progressed up to doing proper squat cleans and today hit 52.5kg for sets of 3. Nothing impressive, but considering I always used to end up doing muscle cleans beyond about 40kg, I'm quite happy. In December I also started relearning overhead squats. In the last week I've progressed from OH squats to snatch balances, and today I trained hip snatches. First time I've tried them, and was pleasantly surprised, as I was back when I first tried hip cleans, to find that I was able to get down into a full squat to catch the bar. I was only using the empty barbell, but very happy with knowing that I can properly get under the bar instead of just power snatching.
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    Awesome thread it actually helped my own form!
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  21. #81
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    Great post and vids... I am currently on korte's 3x3 powerlifter routine but after my meet in April I will def gives these a try. This has spark my interest in Olympic lifting.
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    Un-Registered User The_Cook's Avatar
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    great thread. I'm probably gonna start this up tomorrow and lift 5 days a week alternating between phase I and II
    People who are too weak to follow their own dreams will always find a way to discourage yours.

    well i hit a 6 inch growth spurt last year and have pit, pube, and have shaved 3 times so yes i have hit puberty.-ryanoakes
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  23. #83
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    Just did Phase I today and damn I was beat haha OH Squats have always been a weak point for me
    People who are too weak to follow their own dreams will always find a way to discourage yours.

    well i hit a 6 inch growth spurt last year and have pit, pube, and have shaved 3 times so yes i have hit puberty.-ryanoakes
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  24. #84
    ugjennomtrengelig mørke fraverdenstreet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The_Cook View Post
    Just did Phase I today and damn I was beat haha OH Squats have always been a weak point for me
    sounds fun
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  25. #85
    Un-Registered User The_Cook's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fraverdenstreet View Post
    sounds fun
    It definitely was different and fun. I'm sure I'll end up getting used to the form
    People who are too weak to follow their own dreams will always find a way to discourage yours.

    well i hit a 6 inch growth spurt last year and have pit, pube, and have shaved 3 times so yes i have hit puberty.-ryanoakes
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    Un-Registered User The_Cook's Avatar
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    anyone on that can help?
    People who are too weak to follow their own dreams will always find a way to discourage yours.

    well i hit a 6 inch growth spurt last year and have pit, pube, and have shaved 3 times so yes i have hit puberty.-ryanoakes
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    any tips to improve my flexibility for the front squat and drop snatch?

    I'm struggling with both of them, in front squat my knees are going too far forward and for the drop snatch I'm finding myself on my toes sometimes, even with the bar
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    Be the Blur feces99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BBqChicken1 View Post
    any tips to improve my flexibility for the front squat and drop snatch?

    I'm struggling with both of them, in front squat my knees are going too far forward and for the drop snatch I'm finding myself on my toes sometimes, even with the bar
    Put a small plate under your heels for the time being and work towards not needing them (i suspect you do not have lifting shoes, which you should get). Don't do drop snatches unless you have the flexibility to overhead squat first.
    Gym lifts (PB): C&J: 132.5k, Snatch: 107.5k (p)Jerk: 138k, Clean: 137k Front Squat: 153
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    Originally Posted by feces99 View Post
    Put a small plate under your heels for the time being and work towards not needing them (i suspect you do not have lifting shoes, which you should get). Don't do drop snatches unless you have the flexibility to overhead squat first.

    overhead squat? should i add them to my routine?(i'm doing all the lifts from phase 1 + some back work on my legs/back day twice a week)
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    Originally Posted by BBqChicken1 View Post
    overhead squat? should i add them to my routine?(i'm doing all the lifts from phase 1 + some back work on my legs/back day twice a week)
    For now, yes. They're more of a stretch than a strength exercise provided you do them with the proper weight.
    Gym lifts (PB): C&J: 132.5k, Snatch: 107.5k (p)Jerk: 138k, Clean: 137k Front Squat: 153
    Deadlift: 455, Squat: 380(oly) 360 (pl), Bench: 245, CPUs: 9001
    Comp Total: 237k
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