Vegetarian/Vegan Bodybuilders Q & A

[drjoe]

Hi,

My name is Joe DeMarco. I am an exercise physiologist, chiropractor and 2007 NPC lightweight Masters Nationals Champion (3rd at 2007 Team U). I am a strict Vegan and would be more than happy to answer questions about training on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Hope I can be of some help!

[domenickb]

I always wondered what the vegan position on whey protein was? As far as I know, it is derived from milk, therefore animal products.

Also, what are the main protein sources vegans use? This basically to satisfy my curiosity and give me ideas.

Thanks

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by domenickb

I always wondered what the vegan position on whey protein was? As far as I know, it is derived from milk, therefore animal products.

Also, what are the main protein sources vegans use? This basically to satisfy my curiosity and give me ideas.

Thanks

Yes, whey is dairy based and therefore not part of a vegan diet. Vegans will tend to utilize hemp protein or soy protein powder.

In regards to my main protein sources, I eat alot of tempeh, tofu, beans, peas and lentils. Off season, I will also utilize some imitation chicken/meat products that are made from soy. The company, Morning Star, puts out some delicious soy based chicken strips/steak strips.

In general, I have found that I do not need the huge amounts of protein that most bodybuilders tend to consume. I use to eat alot of protein also. However, over the years I find I can build muscle just as well without huge amounts of protein.

[sugapablo]

Originally Posted by drjoe

My name is Joe DeMarco. I am an exercise physiologist, chiropractor and 2007 NPC lightweight Masters Nationals Champion (3rd at 2007 Team U). I am a strict Vegan and would be more than happy to answer questions about training on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Hope I can be of some help!

Could you post some sample daily menus?

[%%%%]

Originally Posted by drjoe

Hi,

My name is Joe DeMarco. I am an exercise physiologist, chiropractor and 2007 NPC lightweight Masters Nationals Champion (3rd at 2007 Team U). I am a strict Vegan and would be more than happy to answer questions about training on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Hope I can be of some help!

What is your opinion on soy protien

good enough to build muscle? What about the estrogen thing...myth?

[lifter85]

Originally Posted by %%%%

What is your opinion on soy protien

good enough to build muscle? What about the estrogen thing...myth?

exactly what i wana know. i've heard so much about the estrogen stuff that it's hard to not be convinced. however, this guy doesn't seem to have much of an estrogen build up. who knows. personally i just find it so much easier to always be able to have a can of tuna or chicken around, or when going out to dinner having a high protein dish available always. I would LOVE to go vegetarian, but the problem lies in all the meals I'd end up struggling with (going out to eat, on the run, in a rush, etc).

[BEQ one]

Originally Posted by %%%%

What is your opinion on soy protien

good enough to build muscle? What about the estrogen thing...myth?

I really want to know if this is affecting my gains or not. Soy must bring about a positive nitrogen balance. Right?

[MUFC]

I would love to see a sample diet. It would be great if you could provide one.

[eddiebo]

Originally Posted by drjoe

Yes, whey is dairy based and therefore not part of a vegan diet. Vegans will tend to utilize hemp protein or soy protein powder.

In regards to my main protein sources, I eat alot of tempeh, tofu, beans, peas and lentils. Off season, I will also utilize some imitation chicken/meat products that are made from soy. The company, Morning Star, puts out some delicious soy based chicken strips/steak strips.

In general, I have found that I do not need the huge amounts of protein that most bodybuilders tend to consume. I use to eat alot of protein also. However, over the years I find I can build muscle just as well without huge amounts of protein.

I am a vegetarian as I consume egg whites and milk products (namely whey) and love the vegetarian and vegan options now available. I will say living in a large city (Los Angeles) helps a great deal. There are vegetarian and vegan restaurants all around. Along with Whole Foods and Wild Oats Supermarkets with lots of alternatives to meat. As I recall the east coast was a little more vegan/vegetarian challenging so my applause to you for your dedication.

I am curious how many grams of protein roughly you currently consume. Is the number different on off and on days? Also at what weight/stage did you level off from the previous higher number and what would you say the higher amount was?

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by sugapablo

Could you post some sample daily menus?

I am currently a year away from my next competition (2008 Team U) so I am eating currently to stay lean but to also build muscle and get stronger. Therefore I am training very heavy and eating about 6 meals a day. A typical day for me looks like this:

Meal #1 - 6 oz. oats w/half banana, 1/2 pack tempeh and 1/2 grapefruit
Meal #2 - repeat
Pre workout - scoop of Maximum Muscle Pump
During workout - 2-3 scoops Xtend
Post workout - 2 scoops Xtend
Meal #3 - cup brown rice, peas, 1/2 pack firm tofu
Meal #4 - same as #3
Meal #5 - yam, 1/2 pack tofu
Meal #6 - broccoli (or any dark green), 1/2 pack tempeh

I also supplement during the day with a multivitamin and flax seed oil.

Tempeh if you are not familiar with it, is a combination of soy protein and brown rice. One pack contains 32 grams of carbs and 44 grams of protein.

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by %%%%

What is your opinion on soy protien

good enough to build muscle? What about the estrogen thing...myth?

Soy is my predominant protein source and I have no problem with it. My body responds well to it.

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by eddiebo

I am a vegetarian as I consume egg whites and milk products (namely whey) and love the vegetarian and vegan options now available. I will say living in a large city (Los Angeles) helps a great deal. There are vegetarian and vegan restaurants all around. Along with Whole Foods and Wild Oats Supermarkets with lots of alternatives to meat. As I recall the east coast was a little more vegan/vegetarian challenging so my applause to you for your dedication.

I am curious how many grams of protein roughly you currently consume. Is the number different on off and on days? Also at what weight/stage did you level off from the previous higher number and what would you say the higher amount was?

You have that right...LOL. The east coast is definitely a little more vegan challenging. Not alot of vegan restaurants and things like that.

I don't really fluctuate my protein intake on my on/off training days. Mostly because I very seldom take a day off from training.

I consume about 125-150 grams of protein a day on average. I've been on diets where I consumed 200 grams of protein a day, 250 grams a day and even over 300 grams a day. You know what I found? I built muscle better with less protein and I felt 1000 times healthier.

That's the main thing I'd like to stress. I know we are all bodybuilders and want to build muscle. However, I also want to feel GREAT. I find that my diet allows me to do both! Good luck. Peace.

[sugapablo]

I'm in Pittsburgh and I find in the neighborhoods near me (Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, Oakland, etc.) where more professionals/college students/flaming liberals reside, there's plenty of veggie choices. Within walking distance of my house is numerous choices, including Sree's (vegan indian take-out, awesome!). One of the biggest restaurant chains here (Big Burrito company, which runs eleven different restaurants from carribean to mexican to middle eastern) always has plenty of veggie/vegan options.

As for soy....I always hear so much scary stuff about it. I've resigned to making it a "sometimes food". I try to mix up my protein between eggs, milk, seitan, mycoprotein (Quorn products), and the old staple of beans. I'll eat soy occasionally just because it's easy to find all over and some of it is just awesome tasing (Tofurky Italian Sausages...yum!).

I never could develop a taste for Tempeh though. Kinda tastes like feet to me.

[BlackRadio]

I was vegetarian for 5 years and vegan for four of those years. I had about the same diet you do, minus some of the supplements although I did take soy protein. I was in good shape and felt great on a vegan diet, it's just that it's expensive and I got bored eating the same things (soy) everyday for 4 years. Now I eat eggs, milk, and just started eating fish which is a big help in terms of getting more protein/calories. Another thing about being vegan is that when I went out, I would never be able to eat anything unless it was bread or fruit or something. I went on tour with my band for a week last summer and I ate mostly soy protein bars and a few other things because I didn't have access to any other vegan food.

[drjoe]

It's definitely not easy being a vegan, especially when you are trying to go out to eat. However, when you believe strongly about something, you do what you have to do. Peace.

[BlackRadio]

Are you vegan for animal rights reasons?

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by BlackRadio

Are you vegan for animal rights reasons?

Yes, first and foremost, I don't eat meat or dairy because of animal rights.

[Snahrl]

Originally Posted by drjoe

Hi,

My name is Joe DeMarco. I am an exercise physiologist, chiropractor and 2007 NPC lightweight Masters Nationals Champion (3rd at 2007 Team U). I am a strict Vegan and would be more than happy to answer questions about training on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Hope I can be of some help!

Nevermind. Seems as though you just answered my question.

I hope you don't mind me diverting this discussion a bit. If you do, I'll simply bow out of this thread so you can discuss other issues.

Can I ask you what 'animal rights issues' coerced you to become a vegan?

Our ecosystem and habitat called earth is founded in a natural hierarchy of life relative to others. Some subsist on plants, while others must subsist on the flesh of others. This is simply the way things are. You're not going to change the diet of a lion, cat, or dog. They're bounded by their physiology, and I wouldn't consider a cheetah feasting on a gazelle to be an animal rights issue.

While I'm all for humane treatment of animals, I also understand that as a human it is in my nature to consume meat. In this state, I am the healthiest. I cannot digest cellulose. My digestive system does not allow me to ferment grains, grass, or vegetables so that the fiber can be properly assimilated and processed. I'm not designed to consume grass all day long in order to receive a proper amount of calories. I only have one stomach. Thus, it is in my nature to consume meat, and this is the way I was designed. I cannot change this reality, and I see nothing wrong with consuming animal meat given that they lived under humane conditions.

[friedrice683]

Ok what I would like to know

Do you find it hard to manage your weight / muscle when it comes to intaking such large amounts of soy (do you believe the research that has shown it to caus estrogen?)


Also what are your macro splits for a day? such as 50c/30p/20f ?

[BlackRadio]

bump

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by friedrice683

Ok what I would like to know

Do you find it hard to manage your weight / muscle when it comes to intaking such large amounts of soy (do you believe the research that has shown it to caus estrogen?)


Also what are your macro splits for a day? such as 50c/30p/20f ?

My body responds fine to my soy intake. I probably don't taken in as many grams of soy protein as one would think. Over the course of the day my protein comes from other sources as well (i.e. beans, lentils, etc).

I continue to make gains in the gym in both strength and muscle mass. Therefore, I don't put much weight into articles I read knocking soy.

At the moment, my macro breakdown probably looks something like this: 150g Protein/400 g carb/50 g fat

[Ke422azn]

Originally Posted by drjoe

Hi,

My name is Joe DeMarco. I am an exercise physiologist, chiropractor and 2007 NPC lightweight Masters Nationals Champion (3rd at 2007 Team U). I am a strict Vegan and would be more than happy to answer questions about training on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Hope I can be of some help!

Would you be bigger if you werent vegan?

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by Ke422azn

Would you be bigger if you werent vegan?

That's an interesting question. I look at it like this. I would probably be bigger if I weren't vegan. However, I would also be bigger if I shot testosterone in my butt. My point is I'm happy with my size. I'm also happy with my size based on my success on the bodybuilding stage. What's the use of going up to middleweights and not winning? If I can win as a lightweight and do it naturally and on a vegan diet, then I'm happy. Will I ever be an IFBB pro at this size? No way!!! However, that's not my goal. My goal is to be healthy, naturally improve the body that God gave me and win as many national level shows as I can. Great question!

[sugapablo]

Originally Posted by drjoe

I would also be bigger if I shot testosterone in my butt.

Nice.

[lol at mods]

Originally Posted by drjoe

I am currently a year away from my next competition (2008 Team U) so I am eating currently to stay lean but to also build muscle and get stronger. Therefore I am training very heavy and eating about 6 meals a day. A typical day for me looks like this:

Meal #1 - 6 oz. oats w/half banana, 1/2 pack tempeh and 1/2 grapefruit
Meal #2 - repeat
Pre workout - scoop of Maximum Muscle Pump
During workout - 2-3 scoops Xtend
Post workout - 2 scoops Xtend
Meal #3 - cup brown rice, peas, 1/2 pack firm tofu
Meal #4 - same as #3
Meal #5 - yam, 1/2 pack tofu
Meal #6 - broccoli (or any dark green), 1/2 pack tempeh

I also supplement during the day with a multivitamin and flax seed oil.

Tempeh if you are not familiar with it, is a combination of soy protein and brown rice. One pack contains 32 grams of carbs and 44 grams of protein.

when you say "pack" tempeh, "pack" firm tofu, wtf are you talking about? Can you give me a brand name of where I can buy these packs? I'm in college and don't have access to cooking accessories. Thanks for coming into what can be an anti vegan lions den, you're a very inspirational guy!

[BlackRadio]

Originally Posted by lol at mods

when you say "pack" tempeh, "pack" firm tofu, wtf are you talking about? Can you give me a brand name of where I can buy these packs? I'm in college and don't have access to cooking accessories. Thanks for coming into what can be an anti vegan lions den, you're a very inspirational guy!

I've never seen tofu or tempeh not come in packs.

[MUFC]

Originally Posted by drjoe

That's an interesting question. I look at it like this. I would probably be bigger if I weren't vegan. However, I would also be bigger if I shot testosterone in my butt. My point is I'm happy with my size. I'm also happy with my size based on my success on the bodybuilding stage. What's the use of going up to middleweights and not winning? If I can win as a lightweight and do it naturally and on a vegan diet, then I'm happy. Will I ever be an IFBB pro at this size? No way!!! However, that's not my goal. My goal is to be healthy, naturally improve the body that God gave me and win as many national level shows as I can. Great question!

This deserves a rep.

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by lol at mods

when you say "pack" tempeh, "pack" firm tofu, wtf are you talking about? Can you give me a brand name of where I can buy these packs? I'm in college and don't have access to cooking accessories. Thanks for coming into what can be an anti vegan lions den, you're a very inspirational guy!

Tempeh is sold in an air tight plastic wrap (at least the tempeh I've seen). Most grocery stores will carry it. You don't have to go to any speciality store to get it. I buy mine at both Market Basket and Trader Joe's in the Boston area. Tofu can also be bought in any store (get firm or extra firm). There's a whole bunch of companies that make it.

If you do buy some and are unsure how to cook it, you can find hundreds of recipes online. Just do a search for tempeh recipes. I'm always finding new ones online. If I can be of any help just let me know. Peace.

[drjoe]

Originally Posted by MUFC

This deserves a rep.

Thanks dude.

[eddiebo]

Originally Posted by Snahrl

Nevermind. Seems as though you just answered my question.

I hope you don't mind me diverting this discussion a bit. If you do, I'll simply bow out of this thread so you can discuss other issues.

Can I ask you what 'animal rights issues' coerced you to become a vegan?

Our ecosystem and habitat called earth is founded in a natural hierarchy of life relative to others. Some subsist on plants, while others must subsist on the flesh of others. This is simply the way things are. You're not going to change the diet of a lion, cat, or dog. They're bounded by their physiology, and I wouldn't consider a cheetah feasting on a gazelle to be an animal rights issue.

While I'm all for humane treatment of animals, I also understand that as a human it is in my nature to consume meat. In this state, I am the healthiest. I cannot digest cellulose. My digestive system does not allow me to ferment grains, grass, or vegetables so that the fiber can be properly assimilated and processed. I'm not designed to consume grass all day long in order to receive a proper amount of calories. I only have one stomach. Thus, it is in my nature to consume meat, and this is the way I was designed. I cannot change this reality, and I see nothing wrong with consuming animal meat given that they lived under humane conditions.

I am sure Drjoe won't touch this, though thought I'd throw out my 2 cents atleast for argument sake. Veganism is good on quite a few levels. For the environment/ecosystem and personal health (if you know how to eat well and supplement without meat). I will not get into the details of why but will say veganism is obviously very doable and contrary to what you posted above. Early man may have had a much harder time absent meat in their diet depending on available surrounding resources (nuts and legumes). Simply put modern science allows us to make the choice to not eat meat and do it without any ramifications to personal health. We have the understanding of what chemical components are in the things we eat. And know what we need to survive IE. how much protein fat carbs etc. You are correct we don't havea cows four chamber stomach that allows cellulose be converted to energy. Cellulose as you refer is on the simple plant fiber, and we all know there is much more to fruits, vegetables, legumes and nuts than just simple cellulose. The cheetah reference also should be put into perspective, there are over 6 billion people on the planet, if there were that many cheetahs that would make a need for a lot of gazelle. Not to mention the resources needed. In short (may be too late for that) veganism is very plausible and meat is not absolutely needed. Also, when a proper vegan diet is done right may in fact be better for you than eating meat, having a diet with less saturated fat and cholesterol just to name a couple of the positives.