The Xtend "IV" Experiment

[Beast]

After seeing the incredible results Scivation president Marc got from sipping on Xtend all day, I decided to follow in his lead and start massive dosing Xtend. Another thing that made me decide to do this is I've always seen the best results when I am supplementing with high amounts of BCAA (i.e. when I used Leptigen and another time when I was using 30 grams of ICE and day).

We know that Leucine is the key regulator of the mTOR signaling pathway, which regulates protein synthesis and enhances glycogen synthesis activity in muscle and Leptin expression in adipocytes.

Isoleucine stimulates insulin-independent glucose uptake in skeletal muscle, which will lower plasma glucose levels.

I ran into an interesting study that showed Valine to reduce fatty acid synthase in adipocytes by 40% (in rats)[1], which would me less fat storage.

So I am intrigued. There is a lot of interesting research on BCAA and more is continuously being learned about them.

I'll update my stats and other on here on Sunday.

1. Taylor WM, Halperin ML. Effect of valine on the control of fatty acid synthesis in white adipose tissue of the rat. Can J Biochem. 1975 Oct;53(10):1054-60.

[chlaxman]

sounds interesting, just a little expensive.

[Sixpack]

How much are you going to be taking now bro?

[Scivation]

This is great Derek!

I am up to 220lbs now from 190 in January. I have no clue why. I am dieting down and targeting a show on May 25 because I had to postpone the last show due to travel, business and family obligations.

The only change in my regiment has been adding mega-dosed Xtend and NOxidant. My diet has even been pretty consistent with what I was doing before. Vascularity is more pronounced even at this higher bodyweight and my strength is up.

I am glad people saw me at the Olympia then at the Arnold so they can confirm that I'm not just making up stats!

I look forward to seeing your results, Derek!



Marc Lobliner

[drewkowsky]

thats unbelievable
looking forward to this

[uhockey]

Gotta admit, both Marc and Derek looked damned good at the Arnold, I'll definitely be following this to see how much Extend can add to someone already as impressive as Derek.

[Sixpack]

Marc how many servings are u taking for mega dosing? I have the small scooper the yellow on I have to take 5 of those to get 1 serving,I just emailed ya back also
Take care

[Beast]

I had started doing this at the Expo and continued doing it when I got home because I became sick (so about 6-7 days so far) and I already notice an increase in vascularity.

Xtend, per serving (2 scoops) is:
L-Leucine 3.5 g
L-Isoleucine 1.75 g
L-Valine 1.75 g
L-Glutamine 2.5 g
Vitamin B6 10 mg
Citrulline Malate 1 g
So 7 grams total BCAA per serving

My dosing will probably be:
Workout days
7:45 (Pre-workout) 1 serving
8-9:15 (During Workout) 1 serving
9:30 (Post Workout) 1 serving
Then 3 more servings sipped throughout the day
Total BCAA = 42 grams
I may also drink a serving in the middle of the night when I wake up to use the bathroom, so a total of about 50 grams BCAA a day.

I'll post my diet, training split, and stats on Sunday.

[An Inconvenient Bro]

I've been telling people to do this for 2 years now, glad someone finally caught on.

[Jedi Master]

Originally Posted by Scivation

This is great Derek!

I am up to 220lbs now from 190 in January.

Marc Lobliner

Are you saying you put on 30lbs of muscle in 2 months using BCAA's?? LOL

[kbickham]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

Are you saying you put on 30lbs of muscle in 2 months using BCAA's?? LOL

i know right!? i can't believe what i'm hearing. not to be an ASS.. but eveyone needs to take a step back and look at this situation. i'm not reagging on high doses od bcaa's...but this thread seems a little to comercialized for me to take it seriously

[uhockey]

So I see Marc saying 10 scoops Xtend plus one scoop Substance in a gallon of water divided into 1/3 pre/during/post workout plus the addition of "sipping" an Xtend mixture throughout the day. All told, on average, how many scoops of Xtend per day was Marc consuming and how many will Derek and Layne be taking per day during the course of this experiment?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by kbickham

i know right!? i can't believe what i'm hearing. not to be an ASS.. but eveyone needs to take a step back and look at this situation. i'm not reagging on high doses od bcaa's...but this thread seems a little to comercialized for me to take it seriously

Having seen Marc personally at the Olympia in October and then again at the Arnold a week ago (about 4 months total time), I can say the man blew up! After seeing this and talking with Marc, I decided to try out the mega dosing BCAA. I am not expecting to gain 20-30 pounds in 6 weeks (though if I do I will be quite pleased). So we'll just have to see what happens.

[Scivation]

Originally Posted by kbickham

i know right!? i can't believe what i'm hearing. not to be an ASS.. but eveyone needs to take a step back and look at this situation. i'm not reagging on high doses od bcaa's...but this thread seems a little to comercialized for me to take it seriously

I NEVER claimed that this alone caused my results. I simply stated this was the only variable I changed in my disgustingly stringent diet and training program (along with NOxidant).

Also, I am not the one who noticed and announced the results, someone who saw me before and after did.

I will never state that "x" product put "x" amount of weight in "x" amount of time. That's not what my companies are about.

[Iron___Stoner]

Originally Posted by Scivation

This is great Derek!

I am up to 220lbs now from 190 in January. I have no clue why. I am dieting down and targeting a show on May 25 because I had to postpone the last show due to travel, business and family obligations.

The only change in my regiment has been adding mega-dosed Xtend and NOxidant. My diet has even been pretty consistent with what I was doing before. Vascularity is more pronounced even at this higher bodyweight and my strength is up.

I am glad people saw me at the Olympia then at the Arnold so they can confirm that I'm not just making up stats!

I look forward to seeing your results, Derek!



Marc Lobliner

Up 30 pounds since in 3 months? thats amazing. thats like a super mesomorph, new to lifting, on steroids, 400g protein per day... and more. wow. i bet u got some massive stretch marks...

[JohnnyThrice]

As much as I have come to respect and admire Derek for the contributions he has made to this site, I have to question his motives for promoting "massive doses" of BCAA's.

If you're starving, hooked up to an IV, or somehow incredibly deficient in your daily protein consumption, then yes, I can understand the massive BCAA supplementation. But for bodybuilders??

Come on man, don't influence all those young guys to go spend what little cash they have on these supplements.


http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/S...ain_Aminos.htm

Some research has shown that BCAA supplementation (typically 10-20 grams per day) does not result in meaningful changes in body composition,3 nor does it improve exercise performance4 5 6 7 8 or enhance the effects of physical training.9 10 However, BCAA supplementation may be useful in special situations, such as preventing muscle loss at high altitudes11 and prolonging endurance performance in the heat.12 Studies by one group of researchers suggest that BCAA supplementation may also improve exercise-induced declines in some aspects of mental functioning.13 14 15

[Beast]

The purpose is to experiment with supraphysiological levels of BCAA, specifically leucine.

People have always gotten good results from HIGH protein diets, yet studies show that anything over 1 g/lb really won't do much.

Beverly international's athletes always get incredible results from taken BCAA/Liver Tabs between or will meals. These are extra BCAA added to their high protein diets.

"Come on man, don't influence all those young guys to go spend what little cash they have on these supplements."

If this works well, I would much rather have the young guys buy BCAA instead of steroids or Nitrotech...

As for my motives, to freakin see if it works. I don't get any money from doing this. I don't get any money for Xtend sales. I'm doing it in the name of science and experiment.

Originally Posted by JohnnyThrice

As much as I have come to respect and admire Derek for the contributions he has made to this site, I have to question his motives for promoting "massive doses" of BCAA's.

If you're starving, hooked up to an IV, or somehow incredibly deficient in your daily protein consumption, then yes, I can understand the massive BCAA supplementation. But for bodybuilders??

Come on man, don't influence all those young guys to go spend what little cash they have on these supplements.


http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/S...ain_Aminos.htm

[Scivation]

Originally Posted by Iron___Stoner

Up 30 pounds since in 3 months? thats amazing. thats like a super mesomorph, new to lifting, on steroids, 400g protein per day... and more. wow. i bet u got some massive stretch marks...

No new strectch marks (that I can see). I was quite a fat-bastard when I was younger, so I guess my skin has already been taken to its limits! I am amazed myself and have no clue what happened.

It could also be that my body is rebounding from the enormous amount of stress placed on it during the holidays due to my family tragedy, but I don't know.

I never said "Xtend put 30lbs of lean mass on me!", I simply stated that the only change to my diet, training and supplementation during these last 3 months has been the addition of mega-dosed Xtend and NOxidant. I understand it is hard to believe these stats, but even Derek and Layne were taken aback after training with me at the Olympia and then at the Arnold. My vascularity is much more pronounced and I have maintained decent leanness.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Scivation

I never said "Xtend put 30lbs of lean mass on me!", I simply stated that the only change to my diet, training and supplementation during these last 3 months has been the addition of mega-dosed Xtend and NOxidant. I understand it is hard to believe these stats, but even Derek and Layne were taken aback after training with me at the Olympia and then at the Arnold. My vascularity is much more pronounced and I have maintained decent leanness.

Exactly, hence why I am running this experiment, to see what the effects of mega-dosing Xtend have on me. I've already noticed an increase in vascularity. I'll probably run this for 6 weeks, with weekly stats updates.

[Jedi Master]

how do you guys manage to drink BCAA's?? The obviously dont mix mix well, and they get caught in my throat, thats one of the reasons I like Beverlys BCAA tablets.

is there anyway to make them more drinkable??

[covert ash]

Subscribing.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

how do you guys manage to drink BCAA's?? The obviously dont mix mix well, and they get caught in my throat, thats one of the reasons I like Beverlys BCAA tablets.

is there anyway to make them more drinkable??

If you let them sit in the water for like 30 minutes, they dissolve pretty well (at least ICE and Xtend do). Optimum's BCAA do not dissolve well at all though.

[BrightNail]

I was always under the impression that BCAA's in water are only effective for about an hour...meaning, their potency/integrity is corrupted after that time.

So, if you were to mix ICE or Xtend in water - how long will it keep its integrity? Long enough to "sip" thruout the day?

[R_N_S]

part of my reasoning for having small bottles to drink out of, not sure on their stability in water, by why risk it when you dont have to, the only reasoning I can think that they would is for the simple fact that you dont mix protein shakes and let them sit there for that exact reason, maybe bcaa's would react similar? i got no clue, i'll let a guru make the final decision

[str8flexed]

Originally Posted by BrightNail

I was always under the impression that BCAA's in water are only effective for about an hour...meaning, their potency/integrity is corrupted after that time.

So, if you were to mix ICE or Xtend in water - how long will it keep its integrity? Long enough to "sip" thruout the day?

why were you under such an impression?

[Slated]

I've just put 2 bottles of Xtend in my cart, finalizing yet another $300+ BB.com order. I'm going to give this mega dosing a try as well. I only have another 6 months of single life left, so my days of putting money into supps instead of college accounts is numbered.

[str8flexed]

Originally Posted by Beast

After seeing the incredible results Scivation president Marc got from sipping on Xtend all day, I decided to follow in his lead and start massive dosing Xtend. Another thing that made me decide to do this is I've always seen the best results when I am supplementing with high amounts of BCAA (i.e. when I used Leptigen and another time when I was using 30 grams of ICE and day).

We know that Leucine is the key regulator of the mTOR signaling pathway, which regulates protein synthesis and enhances glycogen synthesis activity in muscle and Leptin expression in adipocytes.

Isoleucine stimulates insulin-independent glucose uptake in skeletal muscle, which will lower plasma glucose levels.

I ran into an interesting study that showed Valine to reduce fatty acid synthase in adipocytes by 40% (in rats)[1], which would me less fat storage.

So I am intrigued. There is a lot of interesting research on BCAA and more is continuously being learned about them.

I'll update my stats and other on here on Sunday.

1. Taylor WM, Halperin ML. Effect of valine on the control of fatty acid synthesis in white adipose tissue of the rat. Can J Biochem. 1975 Oct;53(10):1054-60.

there is no evidence to suggest that protein intakes that ridiculously high should have any additional benefit... HOWEVER, with all the anecdotal reports out there i'm wondering if it doesn't have a front loading effect. In the lab they find you need a basal level of leucine (as much as you get from a regular meal) to stimulate protein synthesis and no further synthesis takes place unless you get in the unphysiological range. I know insulin acts in a similar way and leucine and insulin work through similar ways in the same pathways. I wonder if it's not all the protein that's doing it; but rather you are overloading the degradative pathways and allowing more leucine to flood the pools.

I have a feeling you could go with 250g of protein and like 50g-75g of additional BCAAs or 30-40g of additional leucine per day and get the same effect.

I may have to try this.

[krustster]

I'd just like to add my own personal experience to the topic here... back in late January, I remember reading Marc's post about taking BCAA (Extend) throughout the day and thought I'd try it myself, especially since I had already been toying with this idea after reading articles about BCAA supplementation. So what I did was take about 50-60g (do'nt know for sure, I just used a scoop for my measurements) of a bulk powder and mixed it in a gallon of water with some Crystal Light or whatever, and just went trhough the day drinking it at my leisure. I was also cutting, mind you. Well, some time passed--not sure how much, since I wasn't really conducting a test as such--and I actually stopped losing weight and gained 2-3 pounds, much to my disgust, but bodyfat testing revealed that I had dropped about 2-3% in that same timeframe. I didn't think to much about the connection at the time but in retrospect, I would be hard pressed to believe it a coincidence.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by krustster

I'd just like to add my own personal experience to the topic here... back in late January, I remember reading Marc's post about taking BCAA (Extend) throughout the day and thought I'd try it myself, especially since I had already been toying with this idea after reading articles about BCAA supplementation. So what I did was take about 50-60g (do'nt know for sure, I just used a scoop for my measurements) of a bulk powder and mixed it in a gallon of water with some Crystal Light or whatever, and just went trhough the day drinking it at my leisure. I was also cutting, mind you. Well, some time passed--not sure how much, since I wasn't really conducting a test as such--and I actually stopped losing weight and gained 2-3 pounds, much to my disgust, but bodyfat testing revealed that I had dropped about 2-3% in that same timeframe. I didn't think to much about the connection at the time but in retrospect, I would be hard pressed to believe it a coincidence.

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback.

[Vinnie Bobarino]

Originally Posted by Beast

After seeing the incredible results Scivation president Marc got from sipping on Xtend all day, I decided to follow in his lead and start massive dosing Xtend. Another thing that made me decide to do this is I've always seen the best results when I am supplementing with high amounts of BCAA (i.e. when I used Leptigen and another time when I was using 30 grams of ICE and day).

We know that Leucine is the key regulator of the mTOR signaling pathway, which regulates protein synthesis and enhances glycogen synthesis activity in muscle and Leptin expression in adipocytes.

Isoleucine stimulates insulin-independent glucose uptake in skeletal muscle, which will lower plasma glucose levels.

I ran into an interesting study that showed Valine to reduce fatty acid synthase in adipocytes by 40% (in rats)[1], which would me less fat storage.

So I am intrigued. There is a lot of interesting research on BCAA and more is continuously being learned about them.

I'll update my stats and other on here on Sunday.

1. Taylor WM, Halperin ML. Effect of valine on the control of fatty acid synthesis in white adipose tissue of the rat. Can J Biochem. 1975 Oct;53(10):1054-60.

are you taking any other supplements with this?