Milk and Whey Protein

[TMatu]

What are the benefits or drawbacks from taking my GNC whey protein with milk?

[=machine=57/48]

I'm using up my GNC stuff cuz i needed some after i ran out and I'm at college now. I take it with skim and a little water but i am also taking it with Glutamine and Creatine and soon to be NO. Seem to be fine for me.

[Litfury]

I usually take my protein with some type of juice. But on occasions I take it with milk. As far as I can tell, no drawbacks.

[Hulk06]

Most people buy whey because it is instant protein...adding milk to it would slow down the absorbing process, therefore eliminating the "instant" effect.

[BFD Zio]

I'm using up my GNC stuff cuz i needed some after i ran out and I'm at college now. I take it with skim and a little water but i am also taking it with Glutamine and Creatine and soon to be NO. Seem to be fine for me.

Milk slows down how fast the whey will absorb. I believe it is doing the same for your creatine, as well.

[XFactor]

Not exactly. The whey will digest at it's constant rate, the milk will digest slowly as a casien protein. Milk + whey = great shake. You'll absorb the whey quickly while the milk absorbs later.

[DUILEE]

I always hear people saying not to drink milk PWO because of slowed protein digestion but how slow does it really digest? Your body can only utilize so much protein at one time so, in my opinion, as long as you get that protein in right after lifting you should be fine, even if there is casein present. I may be wrong on this, I'm no scientist, but I'm guessing that alot of that protein just circulates around in your blood for awhile before it gets taken into the muscles anyways because muscles don't instantly utilize all the protein consumed. Even if casein slows the digestion rate, your body is still getting a constant flow of protein which is in sufficient amounts to promote growth. Does anybody have some science to counter this opinion? I'm not being sarcastic, I actually want to know. How fast do your body utilize protein compared to how fast it is digested?

[Jay M.]

I've read up on this quite a bit here lately. There is even evidence that protein has a hard time being properly processed without fat being present. This may mean that whey's effects would definitely be upgraded by the presence of fat in something like 2% milk. Just a thought.

[=machine=57/48]

SO you think maybe going from skim to 2% milk may help in the digestion and absorption?? Where did ya read up on this? could ya get me a link?

[85_305]

Thats weird.. i have read that fat will DECREASE absorption of protein

[Andrew69]

From my (limited) understanding, fat will only slow digestion if present as part of a solid meal, not a shake.

Here is a post by Bobo taken from AM

"The majority of delay when it comes to fats is either

a) When they are in a solid state and it delays the breakdown of bolus (solid like state) into chyme (semi-liquid) state. With a shake, this process is already complete so that delay is almost nonexistant....Think of red meat and the difference in fats vs. oils.

b) The emulsification of saturated or transfatty acids within the small intestine. At this point the absortion of amino's is already taking place.

So in general when your fat amount is about 1-2tblsp within a liquid state already (thanks to your blender) the delay in amino absortion is almost non-existant."

This post was made in the context of slowing absorption by adding natty peanut butter to a shake pre bed.

So taking your whey PWO with milk will not slow the absorption to any significant degree and the anti-catabolic effect of the casein more than outweighs any minor slowing of absorbtion of the whey.

[=machine=57/48]

Thanks that was very helpful guys

[85_305]

Andrew69.. seeing as though you have "limited knowledge", you sure as heck did a good job explaining that :thumbsup: Thanx for your input
But.. did you know that unless you have at least a LITTEL fat when you eat salad (in other words salad dressing, etc..) that the nutrients from the salad will not be digested?

[Andrew69]

Andrew69.. seeing as though you have "limited knowledge", you sure as heck did a good job explaining that :thumbsup: Thanx for your input
But.. did you know that unless you have at least a LITTEL fat when you eat salad (in other words salad dressing, etc..) that the nutrients from the salad will not be digested?

Thanks

I always have my salads with a little extra virgin olive oil, vinegar and a dash of lemon juice ...just cause it tastes great

[sowle2themax]

what do you guys think about this?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15570142

[85_305]

Thanks

I always have my salads with a little extra virgin olive oil, vinegar and a dash of lemon juice ...just cause it tastes great

Hm.. I will have to try that sometime, it *does* sound good

[bofeity]

From my (limited) understanding, fat will only slow digestion if present as part of a solid meal, not a shake.

Here is a post by Bobo taken from AM

"The majority of delay when it comes to fats is either

a) When they are in a solid state and it delays the breakdown of bolus (solid like state) into chyme (semi-liquid) state. With a shake, this process is already complete so that delay is almost nonexistant....Think of red meat and the difference in fats vs. oils.

b) The emulsification of saturated or transfatty acids within the small intestine. At this point the absortion of amino's is already taking place.

So in general when your fat amount is about 1-2tblsp within a liquid state already (thanks to your blender) the delay in amino absortion is almost non-existant."

This post was made in the context of slowing absorption by adding natty peanut butter to a shake pre bed.

So taking your whey PWO with milk will not slow the absorption to any significant degree and the anti-catabolic effect of the casein more than outweighs any minor slowing of absorbtion of the whey.

Great post... and whey and milk protein (casein) digest at their normal rates, one slower, the other faster. They don't chemically bind. Your digestive system treats them as seperate entities, not as if they are combined and the slower one taking over the faster one.

[85_305]

^Ok, that is what I was thinking
Question for you two guys then; why do people say to take your night-time shake w/ peanut butter to slow the rate of uptake of whey?

[BiggJohn]

From my (limited) understanding, fat will only slow digestion if present as part of a solid meal, not a shake.

Here is a post by Bobo taken from AM

"The majority of delay when it comes to fats is either

a) When they are in a solid state and it delays the breakdown of bolus (solid like state) into chyme (semi-liquid) state. With a shake, this process is already complete so that delay is almost nonexistant....Think of red meat and the difference in fats vs. oils.

b) The emulsification of saturated or transfatty acids within the small intestine. At this point the absortion of amino's is already taking place.

So in general when your fat amount is about 1-2tblsp within a liquid state already (thanks to your blender) the delay in amino absortion is almost non-existant."

This post was made in the context of slowing absorption by adding natty peanut butter to a shake pre bed.

So taking your whey PWO with milk will not slow the absorption to any significant degree and the anti-catabolic effect of the casein more than outweighs any minor slowing of absorbtion of the whey.

Reps for you, I've been looking for this information. I believe some other properties of milk (glycemic load and effects on insulin) also make it a good choice.

Does this mean WPC is just as good as WPI as long as your diet can absorb the extra fat?

[BiggJohn]

_

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Andrew69 again.

_

[bofeity]

^Ok, that is what I was thinking
Question for you two guys then; why do people say to take your night-time shake w/ peanut butter to slow the rate of uptake of whey?

I havn't been able to find legitimate research for it but I believe it has something to do with the rate of mobility in the intestine when fat is present. And such that if fat is in a meal, the mobility of a bolus of food will be decreased and as a result absorption slowed.

[Andrew69]

Does this mean WPC is just as good as WPI as long as your diet can absorb the extra fat?

Yes.Provided you account for the extra fat and carbs.

[Andrew69]

^Ok, that is what I was thinking
Question for you two guys then; why do people say to take your night-time shake w/ peanut butter to slow the rate of uptake of whey?

I think the peanut butter slowing digestion thing is one of those myths that is simply perpetuated by almost everyone here...myself included up until recently.

[Andrew69]

This is the study linked by sowle2themax.

Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children and Department of Surgery, The University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX 77550, USA. ktipton@utmb.edu

PURPOSE: Determination of the anabolic response to exercise and nutrition is important for individuals who may benefit from increased muscle mass. Intake of free amino acids after resistance exercise stimulates net muscle protein synthesis. The response of muscle protein balance to intact protein ingestion after exercise has not been studied. This study was designed to examine the acute response of muscle protein balance to ingestion of two different intact proteins after resistance exercise. METHODS: Healthy volunteers were randomly assigned to one of three groups. Each group consumed one of three drinks: placebo (PL; N = 7), 20 g of casein (CS; N = 7), or whey proteins (WH; N = 9). Volunteers consumed the drink 1 h after the conclusion of a leg extension exercise bout. Leucine and phenylalanine concentrations were measured in femoral arteriovenous samples to determine balance across the leg. RESULTS: Arterial amino acid concentrations were elevated by protein ingestion, but the pattern of appearance was different for CS and WH. Net amino acid balance switched from negative to positive after ingestion of both proteins. Peak leucine net balance over time was greater for WH (347 +/- 50 nmol.min(-1).100 mL(-1) leg) than CS (133 +/- 45 nmol.min(-1).100 mL(-1) leg), but peak phenylalanine balance was similar for CS and WH. Ingestion of both CS and WH stimulated a significantly larger net phenylalanine uptake after resistance exercise, compared with the PL (PL -5 +/- 15 mg, CS 84 +/- 10 mg, WH 62 +/- 18 mg). Amino acid uptake relative to amount ingested was similar for both CS and WH (approximately 10-15%). CONCLUSIONS: Acute ingestion of both WH and CS after exercise resulted in similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 15570142 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Im not really sure what to make of this study and what it means is the real world for most people simply due to the time lapse between exercise and the ingestion of the protein (1 hour in the study).
The only thing that I would draw from it is that due to the fact the whey and casein elicite different increases in the net balance of different types of aminos, it may well be advantageous to take both whey and casein in your PWO shake so you have a "broad spectrum" response in amino acid uptake, rathen than just one or the other.

[sowle2themax]

yeah i also didn't quite understand why they waited an hour after

[85_305]

bofeity and Andrew69, your two theories conflict, lol. Both are very convincing; can ANYONE find some kind of study's/facts to back any of that up? Now I am REALLY curious..

[BiggJohn]

This is the study linked by sowle2themax.

Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children and Department of Surgery, The University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX 77550, USA. ktipton@utmb.edu

PURPOSE: Determination of the anabolic response to exercise and nutrition is important for individuals who may benefit from increased muscle mass. Intake of free amino acids after resistance exercise stimulates net muscle protein synthesis. The response of muscle protein balance to intact protein ingestion after exercise has not been studied. This study was designed to examine the acute response of muscle protein balance to ingestion of two different intact proteins after resistance exercise. METHODS: Healthy volunteers were randomly assigned to one of three groups. Each group consumed one of three drinks: placebo (PL; N = 7), 20 g of casein (CS; N = 7), or whey proteins (WH; N = 9). Volunteers consumed the drink 1 h after the conclusion of a leg extension exercise bout. Leucine and phenylalanine concentrations were measured in femoral arteriovenous samples to determine balance across the leg. RESULTS: Arterial amino acid concentrations were elevated by protein ingestion, but the pattern of appearance was different for CS and WH. Net amino acid balance switched from negative to positive after ingestion of both proteins. Peak leucine net balance over time was greater for WH (347 +/- 50 nmol.min(-1).100 mL(-1) leg) than CS (133 +/- 45 nmol.min(-1).100 mL(-1) leg), but peak phenylalanine balance was similar for CS and WH. Ingestion of both CS and WH stimulated a significantly larger net phenylalanine uptake after resistance exercise, compared with the PL (PL -5 +/- 15 mg, CS 84 +/- 10 mg, WH 62 +/- 18 mg). Amino acid uptake relative to amount ingested was similar for both CS and WH (approximately 10-15%). CONCLUSIONS: Acute ingestion of both WH and CS after exercise resulted in similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 15570142 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Im not really sure what to make of this study and what it means is the real world for most people simply due to the time lapse between exercise and the ingestion of the protein (1 hour in the study).
The only thing that I would draw from it is that due to the fact the whey and casein elicite different increases in the net balance of different types of aminos, it may well be advantageous to take both whey and casein in your PWO shake so you have a "broad spectrum" response in amino acid uptake, rathen than just one or the other.

Excellent find.

[footballplaya37]

I also take my PWO Whey with milk, but i also put 5 grams of Creatine in it.

Is it ok to mix creatine with milk?

Thanks

[He-Man]

I think milk just makes the shakes taste better overall and we all know that some of these supplements can taste down right nasty. I tried using water for a bit but switched back to milk.

And milk is also a great healthy fat source and the added protein is a bonus too.

[Andrew69]

bofeity and Andrew69, your two theories conflict, lol. Both are very convincing; can ANYONE find some kind of study's/facts to back any of that up? Now I am REALLY curious..

Just go and re-read my post above (post no 11 of this thread).
When you take a shake, as it is already a liquid it is therefore already "chyme like". You have in effect, jumped one step (bolus). It is at the bolus stage that fat retards digestion. Once you have reached the "chyme like" state, the small amount of fats present in the shake will not slow the digestion to any significant degree.
If you still dont believe me then try picking up any basic nutrition text