Insurgents - New Strategy Needed

[jsewell0203]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...boy/index.html

CNN is leading today with a story of a five year old boy, grabbed by insurgents on the streets of baghdad, doused with gasoline and set on fire.

For no apparent reason other than the simple fact that he lived in a particular neighborhood. Which would tend to indicate that the boy was of a faith that someone found distasteful.

I know we don't need any reminders that these people simply need to be exterminated. My only question remains, what are we waiting for?

I would recommend that the Government institute some drastic new measures to curtail this kind of violence, including shoot to kill orders for anyone seen wearing a mask or found with a mask in their posession. Same for those found with weapons caches, bomb making equipment, anything connected with the insurgency.

The north of Iraq is peaceful. Why? They have a series of checkpoints that you cannot hope to navigate through with any success, smuggling weapons or bomb making equipment. If you travel from Kirkuk to Erbil, it is highly likely that you will pass over 100 checkpoints and your vehicle will be searched at least 30% of the time. We need to implement the same level of security in and around baghdad, essentially isolating the insurgents in small pockets. Once isolated, then you can cut them out like a surgeon removing a cancerous growth.

Take the gloves off.

[GApump]

Take the gloves off.

sounds good to me, as evidenced w/ Vietnam wars should not be fought by politicians, they handcuff our generals and our troops in many cases and hinder the overall productivity of the mission.

[Gorilla King]

And yet some would still have us believe that we're the bad guys.

[LatissimusDorsi]

So u've got Sunnis, Shiites, Al Qaeda and a Christian occupying force all fighting for territory and what have we got to show for it? Death, destruction, hopelessness, and a kid who is going to live the rest of his life with burns that are the signature of a false war.

[TheStender]

And yet some would still have us believe that we're the bad guys.

But we are...right?


;p

[okasha]

Poor kid.

It kind of pissed me off that the other kids don't want to play with him anymore.

Whoever said kids can be cruel, was indeed right.

[SYRIANKID]

Since you paint insurgents (in fact only Al Qaida is known to commit those crimes) with the same brush, it would then be fair to do the same and ask why the coalition keeps raping women and killing civilians. (They need a new strategy too).

[NuggzTheNinja]

So u've got Sunnis, Shiites, Al Qaeda and a Christian occupying force all fighting for territory and what have we got to show for it? Death, destruction, hopelessness, and a kid who is going to live the rest of his life with burns that are the signature of a false war.

How about showing some respect for non-Christian coalition soldiers? Negged.

[crimsonanger]

This was also on CNN today:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...acy/index.html

The important part of the article being:

"Nightmarish political realities in Baghdad are prompting American officials to curb their vision for democracy in Iraq. Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security."

Am I mistaken, or isn't that what was in place BEFORE we invaded? Now they simply want to replace a tyrant with another tyrant, because a tyrant is the only kind of leader that can hold that country together.

[FSUFan4]

Since you paint insurgents (in fact only Al Qaida is known to commit those crimes) with the same brush, it would then be fair to do the same and ask why the coalition keeps raping women and killing civilians. (They need a new strategy too).

Another idiotic post from a terrorist.

When are you going to take up a rifle and put your money where your mouth is?

The only way to beat an insurgency is with BRUTAL tactics. It's weird to look at Hollywood, but one movie will provide you with answers. Watch The Patriot. The British officer uses brutal tactics to combat our guerilla type warfare. That is what we need in Iraq. stop pussy footing around and beat some ass like we are truly capable of.

[crimsonanger]

Another idiotic post from a terrorist.

When are you going to take up a rifle and put your money where your mouth is?

The only way to beat an insurgency is with BRUTAL tactics. It's weird to look at Hollywood, but one movie will provide you with answers. Watch The Patriot. The British officer uses brutal tactics to combat our guerilla type warfare. That is what we need in Iraq. stop pussy footing around and beat some ass like we are truly capable of.

I find it ironic that we are supposedly fighting these insurgents because of how they treat their own people, and you go and call someone "pussy footed" because he won't do exactly that.

Odd.

[FSUFan4]

I find it ironic that we are supposedly fighting these insurgents because of how they treat their own people, and you go and call someone "pussy footed" because he won't do exactly that.

Odd.

I'm not calling any individual pussy footed, I am saying we are pussy footing around in Iraq instead of demolishing this insurgency like we are capable of.

Re read my post.

[SYRIANKID]

The only way to beat an insurgency is with BRUTAL tactics. It's weird to look at Hollywood, but one movie will provide you with answers. Watch The Patriot. The British officer uses brutal tactics to combat our guerilla type warfare. That is what we need in Iraq. stop pussy footing around and beat some ass like we are truly capable of.

Nah, I think what we need to do is abandon Iraq like Vietnam and let the Islamists take it back

Thanks

[Thy_Kingdom]

Another idiotic post from a terrorist.

When are you going to take up a rifle and put your money where your mouth is?

The only way to beat an insurgency is with BRUTAL tactics. It's weird to look at Hollywood, but one movie will provide you with answers. Watch The Patriot. The British officer uses brutal tactics to combat our guerilla type warfare. That is what we need in Iraq. stop pussy footing around and beat some ass like we are truly capable of.

Insurgents can't be defeated by military powers alone, various commanders have said this.

Also SK, if the US leaves Iraq and the Islamists are allowed to control it then it will become a bloodbath and plunge that country into civil war for the next 25 years. Iraq will not become a beacon of freedom that Bush has envisioned, nor will it become a peaceful Islamic state like you are hoping for.

[SYRIANKID]

Also SK, if the US leaves Iraq and the Islamists are allowed to control it then it will become a bloodbath and plunge that country into civil war for the next 25 years. Iraq will not become a beacon of freedom that Bush has envisioned, nor will it become a peaceful Islamic state like you are hoping for.

I disagree completely. If Al Qaida rules Iraq, they making up a small minority of Iraq's population, then yes there will be a bloodbath. If anyone else rules Iraq, as is expected, there won't be. In fact, the only way to destroy Al Qaida is to let an Islamic government destroy them, as Al Qaida will no longer have any valid grievance if an Islamic government orders it to disband.

[Thy_Kingdom]

I disagree completely. If Al Qaida rules Iraq, they making up a small minority of Iraq's population, then yes there will be a bloodbath. If anyone else rules Iraq, as is expected, there won't be. In fact, the only way to destroy Al Qaida is to let an Islamic government destroy them, as Al Qaida will no longer have any valid grievance if an Islamic government orders it to disband.

Leaving Iraq would be the biggest blunder in US foreign policy. I think realistically no American politician would ever say "We are responsible for what happened in Iraq, its our job to clean it up." There is also the issue of their ability to clean it up as stated earlier, you can't bomb a countries infrastructure then bitch about rebuilding it.

The political opposition to the war in Iraq is not primarily in the interest of Iraq or Iraqis, it's due to the popular opposition to the war and the desire to be popular among the public. Regardless of what the US does, the Iraqis will probably end up screwed. As for the Iraqis being responsible, I agree to an extent. I realize that they have a national identity that is somewhat young, but is overpowered by their religious affiliation. It's like the catholic/protestant wars of the middle ages except this has been going on much longer. It's childish and pointless to fight each other over who the rightful heir to the Prophet(PBUH) was. I would think having running water and children that aren't missing limbs would be more important, but thats just my dumb Western influenced logic I suppose.

My personal theory is that violence is the top, if not only, thing respected in that culture. The ability to dominate your enemy is priority over a bountiful life.The complex conflicts between the Sunni-Shia insurgents are just long-term planning, eliminating your enemy in advance so when the Americans leave, whoever is still standing reigns supreme. Saddam and his "Start **** and we'll gas your ass" policy was brutal but it was the only thing that was keeping this from happening. Al-Qaida most likely won't leave once the US leaves either, I'm sure they'll want a cut in government and of land.

The reason the administration won't withdraw is that it still has this fantasy about having an "ally" in the middle east, which means the ability to build military bases near Iran and secure oil supplies in the region. Theres probably some pride and stupidity in the mix too, but the inability to let go of that fantasy is what's keeping the US from withdrawing, certainly not a deep care for the fate of the Iraqi people.

[SYRIANKID]

Leaving Iraq would be the biggest blunder in US foreign policy.

No, the biggest blunder in US history was to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and give Islamists a chance to rule those two countries.

Once that mistake was made, the U.S. had only two choices: stay and waste its political and economic viability delaying the inevitable, or leave and spend the money on deep sea research or something more useful.

[Thy_Kingdom]

No, the biggest blunder in US history was to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and give Islamists a chance to rule those two countries.

Once that mistake was made, the U.S. had only two choices: stay and waste its political and economic viability delaying the inevitable, or leave and spend the money on deep sea research or something more useful.

There have been many blunders in US history, but at this moment leaving Iraq would be the worst. Of course many liberals predicted this outcome to occur in Iraq but were silenced or cowardly because the country was looking for blood after 9/11 and anyone not for both those wars in 2003-2004 was seen as 'supporting the t3rr0ristz/hating freedumbs'.

[SYRIANKID]

There have been many blunders in US history, but at this moment leaving Iraq would be the worst. Of course many liberals predicted this outcome to occur in Iraq but were silenced or cowardly because the country was looking for blood after 9/11 and anyone not for both those wars in 2003-2004 was seen as 'supporting the t3rr0ristz/hating freedumbs'.

I disagree. The U.S. is wasting a lot of money supporting an entire city of soldiers that are diminishing in number. With foreign fighters streaming into Iraq in droves, the U.S. is admittedly losing ground every day.

[Dave22reborn]

No, the biggest blunder in US history was to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and give Islamists a chance to rule those two countries.

Once that mistake was made, the U.S. had only two choices: stay and waste its political and economic viability delaying the inevitable, or leave and spend the money on deep sea research or something more useful.

Afghanistan was run by the Taliban, guys you kind of support. Now it's run by the N. Alliance.

[SYRIANKID]

Afghanistan was run by the Taliban, guys you kind of support. Now it's run by the N. Alliance.

I'm surprised you can claim it's run by anyone. If a coalition of over a dozen armies needs to be in a country to stop a 6 year perpetual uprising...nobody is running the show.

N. Alliance is a bunch of heroin smuggling pirates, shipping their garbage to Europe and North America.

[Dave22reborn]

I'm surprised you can claim it's run by anyone. If a coalition of over a dozen armies needs to be in a country to stop a 6 year perpetual uprising...nobody is running the show.

N. Alliance is a bunch of heroin smuggling pirates, shipping their garbage to Europe and North America.

And what was the Taliban????? I mean, it must have been so nice when they took over, all girls schools were closed at once, women were forbidden to leave the house save in the company of a male relative, the all-enveloping burqa robe was decreed at all times, hell the clacking of female sandals on tiles was decreed forbidden as being too "SEXY."

All singing, dancing, the playing of music, sports and kite flying-a national pastime-was forbidden. Beards on men were compulsory. The enforcers were often teenage fanatics in their black turbans, taught only the Sword Verses, cruelty and war.

And let's not forget, they allied themselves with Al Quada.

And as for opium, Iran has a higher addiction than the US and Europe. You know, the supposed morally superior country.

[EDC]

Step 1: A three state solution.

Political Scientist Chaim Kaufmann makes a strong case that ethnic/religious civil wars end in one of three ways. Either one side wins and does terrible things to the losers, a foreign force forcibly stops the conflict and maintains a presence or groups are form into separate states usually after a long bloody war. The choice here is obvious. All you can do is suck up the loss of Southern Iraq to Iranian domination, arm the Sunni middle and subsidize economic development and make sure the Kurdish north behaves itself vis a vis Turkey.

Step 2: Turn the Sunni militias to your side and have them wipe out Al Qaeda. This is already happening.

Not an ideal solution but it is the best you are going to get.

[Dave22reborn]

Step 1: A three state solution.

Political Scientist Chaim Kaufmann makes a strong case that ethnic/religious civil wars end in one of three ways. Either one side wins and does terrible things to the losers, a foreign force forcibly stops the conflict and maintains a presence or groups are form into separate states usually after a long bloody war. The choice here is obvious. All you can do is suck up the loss of Southern Iraq to Iranian domination, arm the Sunni middle and subsidize economic development and make sure the Kurdish north behaves itself vis a vis Turkey.

Step 2: Turn the Sunni militias to your side and have them wipe out Al Qaeda. This is already happening.

Not an ideal solution but it is the best you are going to get.

If anyone need's arming against Al Qaeda, it's the Shia muslims.

[EDC]

If anyone need's arming against Al Qaeda, it's the Shia muslims.

Shia Iraq is a lost cause. Let Al Qaeda and the Shias fight.

[Dave22reborn]

Shia Iraq is a lost cause. Let Al Qaeda and the Shias fight.

Sorry, but Sunnis don't really have much to fear against Al Qaeda/ Wahibists, but Shias do. Think about it, Israel is Iran's #1 enemy, Saudi Arabia is its second.

[EDC]

Sorry, but Sunnis don't really have much to fear against Al Qaeda/ Wahibists, but Shias do. Think about it, Israel is Iran's #1 enemy, Saudi Arabia is its second.

No doubt the Shias have more to worry about from Al Qaeda. The Sunnis will still have to fend off Al Qaeda trying to make Sunni Iraq into an Islamic state. But if we are trying to balance against Iran and thier Shiite puppets in Iraq than why not sit back and watch a Shia-Al Qaeda fight?

Either way the most intelligent solution would be to develop alternatives to oil and get the hell out of the middle east.

[SYRIANKID]

And what was the Taliban????? I mean, it must have been so nice when they took over, all girls schools were closed at once, women were forbidden to leave the house save in the company of a male relative, the all-enveloping burqa robe was decreed at all times, hell the clacking of female sandals on tiles was decreed forbidden as being too "SEXY."

All singing, dancing, the playing of music, sports and kite flying-a national pastime-was forbidden. Beards on men were compulsory. The enforcers were often teenage fanatics in their black turbans, taught only the Sword Verses, cruelty and war.

And let's not forget, they allied themselves with Al Quada.

What are the Taliban anyway? They are no more strict than Pakistanis in Islam. They were ignorant and crazy, but NOTHING compared to the N. Alliance - which I would compare to the Huns.

Singing, dancing, playing of music ARE forbidden in Islam anyway.

Sports and kite-flying, not forbidden in Islam, and I doubt the Taliban forbade sports in general.

Beards on men are highly emphatic anyway.

Life under the Taliban wasn't hard because they were so strict, it was hard because the country was so poor.

And as for opium, Iran has a higher addiction than the US and Europe. You know, the supposed morally superior country.

Doubt it:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-drug-offences

[Dave22reborn]

What are the Taliban anyway? They are no more strict than Pakistanis in Islam. They were ignorant and crazy, but NOTHING compared to the N. Alliance - which I would compare to the Huns.

Singing, dancing, playing of music ARE forbidden in Islam anyway.

Sports and kite-flying, not forbidden in Islam, and I doubt the Taliban forbade sports in general.

Beards on men are highly emphatic anyway.

Life under the Taliban wasn't hard because they were so strict, it was hard because the country was so poor.



Doubt it:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-drug-offences

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-2-25/52147.html

Doubt about it all you want.

Main quote from that article.,
However, it is neighbouring Iran that is reaching an alarming level of drug use. The Washington Post reports that Iran has the world's highest per capita number of opium addicts, with over three million drug abusers, most addicted to heroin. In comparison, Australia has an estimated 113,000 heroin addicts.



And as for your precious Taliban, I'm sure that the people were fine with them. Hell, you couldn't even clap. They shut down movie theaters and television stations, destroyed public works of art that depicted living beings, women were forbidden to work outside their homes. As a result, hospitals lost almost all their staffs and children in orphanages were abandoned. In a country where hundreds of thousands of men had been killed in warfare, widows found themselves unable to work to provide basic necessities for their families.

The Taliban religious police enforced the new rules and punished anyone found disobeying. They inflicted many of the punishments on the spot, usually ruthlessly, without offering the offender any sort of judicial hearing. The Taliban allowed public beatings and stonings, sometimes fatal, of women who violated the dress code or were escorted by men not related to them.

Sound's like a paradise in your eyes.

[E-10]

I'm not calling any individual pussy footed, I am saying we are pussy footing around in Iraq instead of demolishing this insurgency like we are capable of.

Re read my post.

There isn't an "insurgency". It is a revolt of the people of Iraq against invaders.

Not much different than in China was to take a pre-imptive invasion of the USA. I would be a "insurgent" that very day. I'd work my job and provided for my family but would devote time to removal off the invaders.