Would it make sense to take ALA when not cutting?

[Tim]

I did a search and couldn't find the answer to this question. I actually just finished cutting, and I lost like 20 of the 30 lbs. I gained bulking, a good portion of it lean mass. So I want to regain a little bit of lost strength/ mass now, but since it is summer, I want to stay relatively lean (I'll bulk again come September). Will taking ALA on a slow mass gain phase make the gains leaner? I think I've heard both that it makes the gains leaner and that it does the opposite. So should I take ALA or not?

[Colin]

Originally posted by Tim
I did a search and couldn't find the answer to this question. I actually just finished cutting, and I lost like 20 of the 30 lbs. I gained bulking, a good portion of it lean mass. So I want to regain a little bit of lost strength/ mass now, but since it is summer, I want to stay relatively lean (I'll bulk again come September). Will taking ALA on a slow mass gain phase make the gains leaner? I think I've heard both that it makes the gains leaner and that it does the opposite. So should I take ALA or not?

I guesss you didn't take enough glutamine?
II'm not entirely sure about the answer....but I know ALA shou;ldn't be dropped entirely.500 mg should betaken post workout 10 minutes before creatine,it'll help with creatine transportation.

[Bobo]

Originally posted by Tim
I did a search and couldn't find the answer to this question. I actually just finished cutting, and I lost like 20 of the 30 lbs. I gained bulking, a good portion of it lean mass. So I want to regain a little bit of lost strength/ mass now, but since it is summer, I want to stay relatively lean (I'll bulk again come September). Will taking ALA on a slow mass gain phase make the gains leaner? I think I've heard both that it makes the gains leaner and that it does the opposite. So should I take ALA or not?

ALA increases nutrient uptake in musle glycogen as well as fat cells. Its not a good idea to use it with meals during a bulking cycle. For creatine absorbtion or just post workout absortion, its fine.

[Beast]

I'd have to disagree BoBo.

http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/derek30.htm

[Bobo]

I'd like to see the study inidicating 50-60% increase in muscle glycogen stores. Plus your info on ALA is based on studies conducted on type diabetic and/or insulin resistant patients. New studies are showing the effects of nutrient partioning and insulin production are not the same in lean subjects.

Effects of exercise training and antioxidant R-ALA on glucose transport in insulin-sensitive rat skeletal muscle.

Saengsirisuwan V, Perez FR, Kinnick TR, Henriksen EJ.

Muscle Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Physiology, University of Arizona, College of Medicine, Tucson, Arizona 85721-0093, USA.

We have recently demonstrated (Saengsirisuwan V, Kinnick TR, Schmit MB, and Henriksen EJ, J Appl Physiol 91: 145-153, 2001) that exercise training (ET) and the antioxidant R-(+)-alpha-lipoic acid (R-ALA) interact in an additive fashion to improve insulin action in insulin-resistant obese Zucker (fa/fa) rats. The purpose of the present study was to assess the interactions of ET and R-ALA on insulin action and oxidative stress in a model of normal insulin sensitivity, the lean Zucker (fa/-) rat. For 6 wk, animals either remained sedentary, received R-ALA (30 mg. kg body wt(-1). day(-1)), performed ET (treadmill running), or underwent both R-ALA treatment and ET. ET alone or in combination with R-ALA significantly increased (P < 0.05) peak oxygen consumption (28-31%) and maximum run time (52-63%). During an oral glucose tolerance test, ET alone or in combination with R-ALA resulted in a significant lowering of the glucose response (17-36%) at 15 min relative to R-ALA alone and of the insulin response (19-36%) at 15 min compared with sedentary controls. Insulin-mediated glucose transport activity was increased by ET alone in isolated epitrochlearis (30%) and soleus (50%) muscles, and this was associated with increased GLUT-4 protein levels. Insulin action was not improved by R-ALA alone, and ET-associated improvements in these variables were not further enhanced with combined ET and R-ALA. Although ET and R-ALA caused reductions in soleus protein carbonyls (an index of oxidative stress), these alterations were not significantly correlated with insulin-mediated soleus glucose transport. These results indicate that the beneficial interactive effects of ET and R-ALA on skeletal muscle insulin action observed previously in insulin-resistant obese Zucker rats are not apparent in insulin-sensitive lean Zucker rats.

Also I forgot to metion that its been shown that the S-LA increases insulin prodution by itself. I think you'r well awar of the effects on increased insulin production on a high carb diet.

Also forgot to mention that it also increases Glut 4 surface expression in fat storage cells and during a bulking cycle muscle glycogen stores are never in a depleted state (expect post workout). Even for the increase in glycogen stores that ALA provides, our muscles can can only roughly hold aroung 300g of carbs (unless chemically enhanced), therefore the spill over effect would likely to occur and then ALA would shuttle them directly towards fat cells.

[Tim]

Interesting. I guess I'll lay off the ALA then and try to keep my gains lean by being very precise with my diet.