Top 5 Men in History

[juggler02]

1. Jesus
2. Newton
3. Einstein
4. Plato
5. Hammurabi

[007mike]

because Tupac's philosophy has had a greater impact on my life than a theoretical physcicist and an army general/politician.

I'm curious. I think I am missing something. Do you mind sharing what his philosophy was? I used to listen to his music a lot but then I grew up.

[kmac12]

Jesus
GWB
Ronald Reagan
GHWB
David Duke

JK


Real list...

Jesus Christ
Adolf Hitler (he was very influential)
Abraham Lincoln
Alexander The Great
Moses

[Robody]

Corey Feldman
Michael Jackson
Young MC
Marv Albert
Richie Sambora


Sorry I tend to squander my opportunities.

[007mike]

In terms of influence, I'd say anyone who changed humanity's ways of thinking and cause a perspective shift should be on the list. That would be a shift on a deep, psychological level. There's lots of people who've done that and I agree that persons like Hitler are among them, including Jesus / Moses / Muhammed. In other words, the polar opposites on the goodness / badness scale. For the humanity to know what good really means, they must descend into the lowest levels of the bad.

[Nainoa]

I see alot of people saying "Jesus" on their lists. Sorry but there is absolutely no evidence of his existance except the bible and other writings which you can take with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get the bible bashers on me for saying that. Each to their own.

Nainoa had a good list. Person who immmediatley springs to mind is Einstein, there were alot of great men who shaped our world and how we live today. I'd go for men who's ideas,thoughts,actions were outside of the bubble.

Thanks for the Props Bro!

And actually there is historical Evidence that is in no way related to religious means, that Jesus did exist...

At the same time Jesus was alive, there was a Jewish Historian name Josephius. (sp?) who was researching this history of the jewish people, and recording their current day events for posterity.

In the writings of his that they have found:
He recorded that there was indeed a man named Jesus, who was from the area, who was cruxified by the Romans under a charge (It was either heresy or treason, I forget which.)
He makes no mention of the day, the followers, his political beliefs etc... It's recorded much like if you opened up your newspaper to the section that records crimes, and trials and such.

Josephius writings don't mention anything about his spiritual affiliations etc... It's just a record, because he happened to be in Jerusalem for the passover celebration.

*Note I am not a bible thumper etc... I'm a 110% agnostic, who tries to look at things from every angle, and has an intense interest in history.

[kmac12]

I see alot of people saying "Jesus" on their lists. Sorry but there is absolutely no evidence of his existance except the bible and other writings which you can take with a grain of salt.

By your logic, how do we know that anyone in history existed without photos or direct proof?

Alexander the Great?
Socrates?
Plato?

We rely heavily on historic documents as evidence (which includes the Bible). It is widely accepted that Jesus DID exist and WAS crucified by the Romans. Whether you believe he is the Son of God is the debatable question.

So, before making more stupid statements like that, please do some research.

[Kiwi_Fella]

By your logic, how do we know that anyone in history existed without photos or direct proof?

Alexander the Great?
Socrates?
Plato?

We rely heavily on historic documents as evidence (which includes the Bible). It is widely accepted that Jesus DID exist and WAS crucified by the Romans. Whether you believe he is the Son of God is the debatable question.

So, before making more stupid statements like that, please do some research.

As I said, each to their own. I dont want to get into a religious slanging match, if your happy to believe in this person good on you.

Nainoa - Bro I've read some interesting articles about the jewish writer you stated. Found this:

"It must first be pointed out that Josephus was writing some six decades after the supposed crucifixion, so he would have had no first-hand knowledge of Jesus' existence. Josephus would have been working with second hand evidence at best.

The passage is an obvious forgery and has been recognized as such by historians for over two centuries. Its brevity alone casts doubt on its authenticity. Josephus was a writer with a penchant for great detail on the most trivial matters. His works are tedious in their detailing the lives of minor criminals, customs officials, governmental economic figures, and the like. There are in fact six other Jesuses in his works; the one everybody knows today receives the shortest shrift, again illustrating just how unimportant he was considered to be by his contemporaries."

What do you think?

[The Kurgan]

1. Winston Churchill

2. George Orwell

3. Abraham Lincoln

4. Vespasian, or perhaps Charlemange?

5. Themistocles, maybe?

To be honest, there's been so many great men in history who we owe so much to, and there's been so many gits who we owe nothing to.

[Nainoa]

As I said, each to their own. I dont want to get into a religious slanging match, if your happy to believe in this person good on you.

Nainoa - Bro I've read some interesting articles about the jewish writer you stated. Found this:

"It must first be pointed out that Josephus was writing some six decades after the supposed crucifixion, so he would have had no first-hand knowledge of Jesus' existence. Josephus would have been working with second hand evidence at best.

The passage is an obvious forgery and has been recognized as such by historians for over two centuries. Its brevity alone casts doubt on its authenticity. Josephus was a writer with a penchant for great detail on the most trivial matters. His works are tedious in their detailing the lives of minor criminals, customs officials, governmental economic figures, and the like. There are in fact six other Jesuses in his works; the one everybody knows today receives the shortest shrift, again illustrating just how unimportant he was considered to be by his contemporaries."

What do you think?

Hmmm... Interesting... I had always been lead to believe that he was indeed alive during that time... And was told that the converse of the "Forgery Statements" was the case. (Note I was told this by a buddhist history professor not a catholic etc...)

Though IIRC, the main crux of the Anti-Forgery Logic was "Why would Jospeus write about such mundane things 60 years later..." Followed by several detailed follow up statements such as "If he had meant to offer validity about Jesus, he would have offered more detail."

Other than that, I just know what I've heard on the Discovery Channel, or snagged in XYZ internet article...
Admittedly it isn't my primary area of historical interest...

I more lean towards WWII, and ancient history... With some stronger smatterings of Roman history, and Early (Prehistoric) Americas.

[kmac12]

As I said, each to their own. I dont want to get into a religious slanging match, if your happy to believe in this person good on you.

Then you should not have even brought it up in the first place.

Let people compile their own lists. Just because YOU do not believe in his existence, there are plenty of other people in this world (including non-christians) who believe he existed.

If you do not want to get into a religious debate like that, then go edit your posts.

[mr.perffect]

Then you should not have even brought it up in the first place.

Let people compile their own lists. Just because YOU do not believe in his existence, there are plenty of other people in this world (including non-christians) who believe he existed.

If you do not want to get into a religious debate like that, then go edit your posts.

exactly .. nobody should ever post or say anything that might contradict someone else .. in fact i may come back later and delete this post ..

[kmac12]

exactly .. nobody should ever post or say anything that might contradict someone else .. in fact i may come back later and delete this post ..

I get sick of people saying...."I do not want to start an argument, BUT...."

There was no point to his initial comment other than start an argument. That is why I said he should edit his post.

[mr.perffect]

I get sick of people saying...."I do not want to start an argument, BUT...."

There was no point to his initial comment other than start an argument. That is why I said he should edit his post.

haha .. i agree with you there .. it's like saying "no offense but ... " .. why else would you say that unless you were going to say something offensive?

[kmac12]

haha .. i agree with you there .. it's like saying "no offense but ... " .. why else would you say that unless you were going to say something offensive?

Exactly.

"I do not want to get into a religious debate with you, but Jesus didn't exist."

[Nainoa]

I get sick of people saying...."I do not want to start an argument, BUT...."

There was no point to his initial comment other than start an argument. That is why I said he should edit his post.

Okay guys, chill out on the Holy War okay...

Kiwi was stating his views, and included Phrases like "Take what I said with a grain of salt." And "To each his own..."

When someone says somethng like that, they are saying No-Personal-Offense to you, but I disagree with your statement..."

He's trying to be respectful, while still disagreeing with you, and it seems like you're looking for reasons to be offendedm including the way he stated that he didn't want to offend you...

No-Offense, but please put the witch hunt down, and let's continue with an interesting conversation about people's Top 5 people, and why the feel that way, without being offended by the fact that not every human being sees eye to eye on every topic...

***

I'm personally interested in whether people based their list on Cultural influence (Such as the renaissance artists) or if they lean more toward Political and Military people as being more important and why?

Respectfull Nainoa

[beowulf]

Moses
Jesus
The Emperor who established Christianity as the official religion
Columbus
Washington

Honorable mention - Bill Gates, Eintsein, Hitler, Stalin, Reagan, Henry Ford and Dave Batista

[kmac12]

Okay guys, chill out on the Holy War okay...

Kiwi was stating his views, and included Phrases like "Take what I said with a grain of salt." And "To each his own..."

When someone says somethng like that, they are saying No-Personal-Offense to you, but I disagree with your statement..."

He's trying to be respectful, while still disagreeing with you, and it seems like you're looking for reasons to be offendedm including the way he stated that he didn't want to offend you...

No-Offense, but please put the witch hunt down, and let's continue with an interesting conversation about people's Top 5 people, and why the feel that way, without being offended by the fact that not every human being sees eye to eye on every topic...

***

I'm personally interested in whether people based their list on Cultural influence (Such as the renaissance artists) or if they lean more toward Political and Military people as being more important and why?

Respectfull Nainoa

Initially, he did not use non-offensive language as you state. His grain of salt comment had to do with believing the bible or other historic writings as to Jesus' existence.

I think he deserved the response he received and he even expected it. He was the one who decided to post the controversial statement, but yet later hide under the "i don't want to offend anyone" or "I don't want to start an argument".

My position was stated and agree that its going too far. Basically, everyone has the right to include whoever they want in their list, they should not be attacked/questioned by someone else about their choices.

Consider the subject dropped.

[Nainoa]

Moses
Jesus
The Emperor who established Christianity as the official religion
Columbus
Washington

Honorable mention - Bill Gates, Eintsein, Hitler, Stalin, Reagan, Henry Ford and Dave Batista

The guy you're looking for in "Roman Emperor" is Constantine (Per my Post above)

Dave Batista... LOL... We're of the same mind! LOL!

Now I can see Hitler in the whole "He massively influenced world events."

However, I personally don't agree with Stalin...
Now Lenin (The guy that Stalin essentially took control from) I can see someone saying Lenin... Without he and Marx, there would have been no Bolshevik (sp?) revolution > Socialism > Communism > Second Front > and on etc...

But all Stalin really did was kill lots of people... He didn't do any real "Thinking" he just signed death orders, and followed a war of attrition strategy that had been in Russian history since before even Napoleon.

Good thinking on Henry Ford... Without the concepts of Mass production on the scale he helped institute, we wouldn't be capable of 1/8 the technological advances we have today!

[Revolver45]

1. Jesus
2. George W Bush
3. The Beatles as a whole
4. Bobby Orr
5. Arnold Schwarzenegger

[Legend]

1.einstein
2.hitler
3.Bill Gates
4.bruce lee
5.pele

[BigKazWSM747]

Just curious as to why Cardinal Richelieu is in that list.

Revolutionized the way foreign policy was conducted (raison d'etat), and established France as the most powerful European power (mainly from the outcome of the 30 years war), a role that France basically maintained until Germany was unified in 1871.

[chad12121]

1. Jesus
2. Bruce lee
3. Hitler
4. Napoleon
5. Lance Armstrong

FACT: Bruce lee had only one testicle
FACT: Hitler and Napoleon had only one testicle
FACT: Lance armstrong lost his testicle to cancer

Uh...I don't think you know your testicles very well. There is no evidence anywhere on how many testicles hitler had. There is no evidence that he even had sexual relations with eva braun. I don't know about napoleon though.

My list:

1. Me
2. again me.
3. hmmmmmmmmmmmm i think i tie for 3rd too
4. me
5. tony danza

[Nainoa]

Uh...I don't think you know your testicles very well. There is no evidence anywhere on how many testicles hitler had. There is no evidence that he even had sexual relations with eva braun. I don't know about napoleon though.

My list:

1. Me
2. again me.
3. hmmmmmmmmmmmm i think i tie for 3rd too
4. me
5. tony danza

LOL... Tony Danza!
Yeah I forgot about him... Without his cultural contributions in "Taxi" and "Who's the Boss" Millions would now be dead!

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Hitler did have only one testicle...

No source though... But I've definately heard it...