Best prohormone for Lean mass and minimal side effects

**dank311** · 08-20-2007, 08:16 AM

I've been researching the past few months on prohormones and the latest products in that category. I am looking for something to add some lean mass, and reduce body fat. This will be my first PH cycle so I would like to keep it a bit mild to see how I react. I am worried about side effects, as I do have MPB in my family. I am 23, so I know my test has not dropped like someone at 40-50.

Here are some of the products I have been doing research on:

Iforce Bold 1,4 AD - boldenone product, supposively get pretty good gains and little estro aromatization. Should be used with PCT (novedex or 6-oxo)

DS Activate Extreme - Divanil product...seen alot of good logs on this supplement.

Ergopharm - 11-oxo aka 3-ad - read a few logs on it, looks like a good product made by a promising company, but havent read to many logs yeilding huge gains just yet...stilll a little new.

Anabolic extreme hyperdrol X2 - seems to be a little more potent and should definately be used with anti-estrogen

MN X-Factor - read alot of good logs, but most seem to be stacks.

Basically looking for some reviews or advice from guys who have used these or other products in the same category. I know, Im still learning about prohormone products, but I dont plan to buy any for a few months until I do a bit more research on and get some solid feedback from some experienced people on here.

Also, I have a source for 1-AD/4-AD locally. I did a bit of research a few years ago on this, but was too young to try it...so I never decided to go through with it. I have heard this stack is pretty solid, with little side effects..Just wondering how this compares to some of the stuff out today that has not been banned by FDA.

Thank in advance for any suggestions, help, or advice!

**SPACECLOWN** · 08-20-2007, 08:21 AM

What's your age?

**pa mma** · 08-20-2007, 08:23 AM

i used x-factor- nothing exciting from my 50 day cycle if anything
11oxo- good at leaning out and increasing strength
bold-seems to be pretty much what you are looking for as far as what users have reported...if you are very interested in it there is a write up by vaughntrue in the comp promo..

hyperdrol/activate-again users have nothing but positive to say...

**Quinn77** · 08-20-2007, 08:23 AM

it says 23 in the post, a lot of those are not pro-hormones

**ncangey0513** · 08-20-2007, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Quinn77

it says 23 in the post, a lot of those are not pro-hormones

All of them except Bold are not.

**mattftw** · 08-20-2007, 08:25 AM

I know it's not a PH, but if you're worried about side effects but still want some gains you could check out the new Halodrol Liquigels from Gaspari. The new formula has ErgoPharm's 6-oxo in them.

http://bodybuilding.com/store/gn/halo.html

http://gasparinutrition.com/products...els-/index.php

**40-Yard Dash_2** · 08-20-2007, 08:30 AM

I'm guessing the synergy between ActivaTe Xtreme and 11-OXO would be quite stellar.

I'd consider that; especially given the minimal sides.

**K Rock 12** · 08-20-2007, 09:38 AM

Hyperdrol and X-Factor aren't pro-hormones...for not being hormonal however you might see slight results..i saw slight results stacking hyperdrol x2 and mass fx..if this is your first time with a ph as its going to be mine..wait until anabolic xtreme comes out with superdrol ng..its supposed to be a beginner/novice ph...non-methylated...

**Lightning3** · 08-20-2007, 09:41 AM

I would go with Halodrol

**dank311** · 08-20-2007, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by ncangey0513

All of them except Bold are not.

I know some of these arent considered prohormones...but I guess they would be in the same category of supplement being that they lower estrogen to naturally increase test. I have read a few prohormones FAQ's on this site and bulk forums, but still confused on a few things since there are soo many products out now. That one reason I made this post. Hopefully, someone can set me straight. Like I said, I am still doing research, and I want to learn.

BTW, yes, I am 23 years old.

So, correct me if Im wrong...some prohormones directly target and increase test...while the anti-estrogens reduce esttrogen to naturally raise test. Are PCT's basically anti-estrogens? Is there any pro's and con's between these as far as results, side effects, length of cycle, harshness/stress on organs or endocryne system.

What type of product should I be looking at for my goals? Since they both are playing a role in your hormones, wouldnt they be pretty similar as far as stress on your body and side effects?

Im sorry for so many questions, and Im sorry if I come offf like a newb...but Im trying to do as much research as possible, but unfortunately there isnt a PH section on this site, and when I use the search, I mostly come up with logs, which sometimes dont really help in understanding the science and what these products do to your body, as well as the effectiveness in them. If anyone can help me grasp a better understanding, or maybe lead me to a page, thread, or FAQ that explains it in better detail, that would be greatly appreciated!

**dank311** · 08-20-2007, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by ncangey0513

All of them except Bold are not.

I also wanted to ask, what category are these considered to be in when researching? Maybe that one reason why my searches have been unsuccessful. When I read about some of these, they are stated, or reffered to as a prohormone. But, when I read a prohormone FAQ, they dont seem to fall under any of the methyl related products. If anyone can break it down for me, that would be great.

Xc · 08-20-2007, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by dank311

I know some of these arent considered prohormones...but I guess they would be in the same category of supplement being that they lower estrogen to naturally increase test. I have read a few prohormones FAQ's on this site and bulk forums, but still confused on a few things since there are soo many products out now. That one reason I made this post. Hopefully, someone can set me straight. Like I said, I am still doing research, and I want to learn.

BTW, yes, I am 23 years old.

So, correct me if Im wrong...some prohormones directly target and increase test...while the anti-estrogens reduce esttrogen to naturally raise test. Are PCT's basically anti-estrogens? Is there any pro's and con's between these as far as results, side effects, length of cycle, harshness/stress on organs or endocryne system.

What type of product should I be looking at for my goals? Since they both are playing a role in your hormones, wouldnt they be pretty similar as far as stress on your body and side effects?

Im sorry for so many questions, and Im sorry if I come offf like a newb...but Im trying to do as much research as possible, but unfortunately there isnt a PH section on this site, and when I use the search, I mostly come up with logs, which sometimes dont really help in understanding the science and what these products do to your body, as well as the effectiveness in them. If anyone can help me grasp a better understanding, or maybe lead me to a page, thread, or FAQ that explains it in better detail, that would be greatly appreciated!

You're on the right track, but not quite there.

Pro-Hormone (PH's)- A compound that usualy requires an enzyme in the body to convert to a target Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS). BOLD is an example of a PH.

Designer Steroid - A compound that is already active (ie. no enzyme required) that is sold over the counter (pp, sd, Havoc, etc).

AI- Aromatise Inhibitor. Blocks the enzyme Aromatase. Aromatase converts Testosterone into Estrogen. Often ran along AAS that aromatises, however it can be ran as a standalone to boost test levels.

That's all I have time for right now.

**Musclefever** · 08-20-2007, 10:20 AM

dont need pct with hyperdrol x2

**Musclefever** · 08-20-2007, 10:26 AM

u can also research on:havoc - halodrol - masstabs - sostonal - trenadrol -furazadrol - masterdrol - bold - jw - hemadrol

**maxiderm** · 08-20-2007, 10:34 AM

i would recommend either Havoc or Halodrol

**Musclefever** · 08-20-2007, 10:36 AM

with every ph u buy chek that u have a good pct for it

Xc · 08-20-2007, 10:53 AM

Here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=53295721

It's in no way complete, but it's a start.

**tdog69** · 08-20-2007, 10:54 AM

I have been doing some research also and have been looking at Oxyguna or Furaguno both are precursors to Stanozolol and would be excelent for lean gains along with cutting. Deffenitly would not give yo the same results as one of the Mythel. that frys your liver.

**stj553** · 08-20-2007, 12:29 PM

If your source for that 1-ad/4-ad is legit, I would you get that over everything else you listed. Thats just me though

**K Rock 12** · 08-20-2007, 12:34 PM

He's Right ^^^..I've heard nothing but good things about ergopharms 1-AD..if you can find it let me no also

**dank311** · 08-21-2007, 08:34 AM

Thanks for the FAQ! It was a very good read, especially for newbs and begginers. I also found a ver useful link for other to read about different ingrediants used in some of the PH/DS.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jeff2.htm

This has alot of good info, as well as learn the history of PH/DS.

I have a pretty good understanding of everything now. But, Im still unsure how to go about picking a PH/DS. Im trying to learn all the ingrediants so I can make better choices on my own, but Im still unsure of certain ingrediants pro's/con's. Which makes one better? (for a certain characteristics/goals) Which is safer/less possible side effects? What is more cost effective? What is stronger? Which yields best gains? What is more for bulk, or more for cutting?

How do I go about getting this information? Im trying to research as much as possible, but some things are still unclear. What is the best place to research what each chemical does, their possible side effects, results, etc..

**ChristianBBer** · 08-21-2007, 08:42 AM

jungle warefare? yes ? no? maybe? talk to you later?

**dank311** · 08-21-2007, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Xc

You're on the right track, but not quite there.

Pro-Hormone (PH's)- A compound that usualy requires an enzyme in the body to convert to a target Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS). BOLD is an example of a PH.

Designer Steroid - A compound that is already active (ie. no enzyme required) that is sold over the counter (pp, sd, Havoc, etc).

AI- Aromatise Inhibitor. Blocks the enzyme Aromatase. Aromatase converts Testosterone into Estrogen. Often ran along AAS that aromatises, however it can be ran as a standalone to boost test levels.

That's all I have time for right now.

Can you maybe give me a quick run down of the pro's/con's of each compound. Apparently the PH/DS need to be run with a PCT (AI)to return hormone levels back to normal. So if you run an AI alone to naturally raise test, do you need any kind of PCT?
Also, if you can, please give more examples of what is a PH, DS, and AI...whether it be product name, or chemical name.

**dank311** · 08-22-2007, 03:43 PM

Bump for any answers to my last two posts.

**leonidas300** · 08-22-2007, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by dank311

Can you maybe give me a quick run down of the pro's/con's of each compound. Apparently the PH/DS need to be run with a PCT (AI)to return hormone levels back to normal. So if you run an AI alone to naturally raise test, do you need any kind of PCT?
Also, if you can, please give more examples of what is a PH, DS, and AI...whether it be product name, or chemical name.

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life. The links provided in this thread are an excellent resource and provide more than enough information to answer your question. just take a bit of time and research the issue and later you will be glad you did.

**dank311** · 08-22-2007, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by leonidas300

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life. The links provided in this thread are an excellent resource and provide more than enough information to answer your question. just take a bit of time and research the issue and later you will be glad you did.

I understand your logic. I would just like a little help thats all. I appreciate the help that has been given. I have read almost every FAQ and post about PH/DS I could find. I now know the differences between the sub categories, but cant seem to get more detailed information on some of the products out there and what is contained.

From my reading, it seems as if the methyl versions are more effective, but also harder on your liver and the higher possibility of unwanted side effects. One product that comes to mind is M1T.

Also, effectiveness and side effects are circumstancial on each chemical's characteristics. Products like 1-test, superdrol, etc, are some of the harder substances.

While 1,4 Andro, and 19-nordiol are probable the best bets for me. Maybe to even stack them. These seem to be the least likely to have unwanted side effects, but might come at a decreased effectiveness. I really like to believe that this might be the best stack for me as far as the side effects profile, but I jsut want to make sure they are effective enough to even take a risk.

It also seems like 1AD/4AD or even 4AD + 19nordiol would have been a good stack for me, but the 1-AD and 4-AD have both been banned.

Now, what Im not sure of just yet is this 3-AD/11-oxo bit. It is relatively new, and not much research can be done on it just yet as far as I can tell. How does this compare to 1,4andro and 19-nordiol?

So far, this is my gathering on the products. Im not to the point to finding which products contain the certain substances im interested in, but I should be doing that tonight. If you can be of any additional help, let me know if Im going in the right direction in picking my stack. Again, Im basically looking for the most effective stack, with the least possibilites of side effects. My biggest worries are hair loss (since I do have MPB), and any liver damage. Please give me any further suggestions on any other PH/DS that would match my description, and I will do further research on it.

Thanks in advance

**dank311** · 08-22-2007, 05:11 PM

Well ****...just realized...it looks like the 19-nordiol is also on the banned list. So, I guess that just leave 1,4 andro by itself. Anything else I can research on that in this range?

**dank311** · 08-24-2007, 06:20 AM

Ok, I think I got a pretty good grasp on everything now. I have done alot of research on this forums, anabolic minds, and bulk forums in the past 48 hours. Now, Im trying to gather a list of these PH/DS's that are currently available and list them accordingly to their harshness on the body/side effects.

HEAVY - These are ones that are usually most effective, yet can have higher possibilities to side effects. I have even read that most of these people have just felt like absolute **** on, and had to fight through the pain, lethargy, and other sides to just get through the cycle (BTW, this is from my research, based on others opinions that I have gathered and is speaking in a generality):

M1T
Pheraplex
Superdrol

Havent really come across anymore as Im not interested in the ones in this category. Might I add, these are all designer steriods.

MEDIUM - These still can yiel great results, sometime just as good as the heavy ones, but have less probability of sides.(of course taken with PCT, and correct protections) I have read less about feeling like ****, lethargy, pain about the following...I have actually read that some people feel great on these, and is actually a positive feeling:

Halodrol
M1,4ADD
Havoc/Epistane/Oxyguno (IIRC these are all the same active ingrediant...correct me if Im wrong)

These are all also designer steroids.

Mild - These seem to be the most tried ones by the general public, as I see more logs and reviews on the following. Most are generall pretty safe of course with the courrect protections and PCT. I havent read many side effects from the following, and those I have read about have also deceased upon end of cycle:

11-oxo/3-AD - cortisol control (not sure if this is really considered a PH/DS)
Hyperdrol
Jungle Warfare
1,4AD (bold 200) - real PH
Furazadrol
propadrol
activate extreme -Divanil (seems to be mostly natural from nettle root) havent gotten to do much divanil research and its effectiveness, but from the logs, it looks promising)
X-Factor - ARACHIDONIC ACID
6-oxo (AI, natural test boost)

I just want a little feedback on this list, to make sure they are in the correct category. Also, maybe some can add to the list. I am really only trying to list the ones that have high effectiveness, so people can also use this list in deciding which to choose.

Also, one more questions...It seems like 1,4AD is one of the only real effective, low sides PH left on the market. Is there anything else? Everything else seems to be a designer steroid. Are their any pro's/con's about taking a real PH over a DS?

**teebirdhyzer** · 08-24-2007, 07:13 AM

good post! reps to ya!

**getbustered** · 08-24-2007, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by teebirdhyzer

good post! reps to ya!

Just one little thing I want to clear up. It looks like this guy is doing his reserach and narrowing his list, so I'll try to help narrow it even further. X-Factor is in NO WAY a PH or designer steroid. It is also not a "test booster," "estrogen blocker," or aromitase inhibitor. It is truly non-hormonal.

Is X-Factor a great product? Yes. But if you are looking for a ph, it is not what you are looking for. It will not mess with your hormones and requires absolutely no PCT.

And I know how much people love when reps go around posting FAQs and whatnot, but in this instance it seems appropriate. Check this out for more information/reading material.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=x-factor+faq

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