The Tough Old Days

[Defiant1]

I posted this in the programs section: But I KNOW you guys will appreciate it!!

Sometimes I get the impression that a lot of people think that the only reason "pro" bodybuilders can do long, hard routines is because of "drugs", and that prior to wide-spread AAS use, bodybuilders trained with "short" workouts of few sets. I see this frequently when "Arnolds" routines are brought up. This is actually a misconception. I was reading an article by Bob Kennedy, publisher of MMI, and respected for his "honest" view of bodybuilding. He states:

"You'll have to forgive for delving into the past with my articles, but seriously, my head is full of lessons from the past. Sometimes I even turn my movie reel back as much as fifty years.

But let me tell you something. The bodybuilders of yesteryear, even though they didn't have the mass-building steroids or the cut-up drugs, trained far harder than the champs we see in the gyms today. This is a fact, not even up for discussion."

Bob Kennedy has been involved in the iron game for a LONG time.

The point of this is is that I see guys wondering if they are "overtraining", or people putting down the pros routines cause they are "on steroids". If you REALLY can't do a routine, then fine. But don't dismiss hard work because you THINK you can't do it. The pros didn't suddenly get to where they are and say "Oh gee, now I can do 25 sets per bodypart"-it's the drive and determination to GET them through those workouts that make them the pros. Not the other way around. You don't have to follow their advice, but don't dismiss them because of some pre-conceived notion.

The old time natural guys trained just as hard, even harder.

So get in there, and bust your ass.

[body2big]

Good Post, In fact been looking at my own routine and thinking I only finish a certain amount either due to time restraints or lack of desire NOT due to muscle fatigue or energy loss but purely mental. Time to look at my own routine even harder and work harder.

Shawn

[domineaux]

I posted this in the programs section: But I KNOW you guys will appreciate it!!

Sometimes I get the impression that a lot of people think that the only reason "pro" bodybuilders can do long, hard routines is because of "drugs", and that prior to wide-spread AAS use, bodybuilders trained with "short" workouts of few sets. I see this frequently when "Arnolds" routines are brought up. This is actually a misconception. I was reading an article by Bob Kennedy, publisher of MMI, and respected for his "honest" view of bodybuilding. He states:

"You'll have to forgive for delving into the past with my articles, but seriously, my head is full of lessons from the past. Sometimes I even turn my movie reel back as much as fifty years.

But let me tell you something. The bodybuilders of yesteryear, even though they didn't have the mass-building steroids or the cut-up drugs, trained far harder than the champs we see in the gyms today. This is a fact, not even up for discussion."

Bob Kennedy has been involved in the iron game for a LONG time.

The point of this is is that I see guys wondering if they are "overtraining", or people putting down the pros routines cause they are "on steroids". If you REALLY can't do a routine, then fine. But don't dismiss hard work because you THINK you can't do it. The pros didn't suddenly get to where they are and say "Oh gee, now I can do 25 sets per bodypart"-it's the drive and determination to GET them through those workouts that make them the pros. Not the other way around. You don't have to follow their advice, but don't dismiss them because of some pre-conceived notion.

The old time natural guys trained just as hard, even harder.

So get in there, and bust your ass.

---------------

I see them all the time in the gym. The BB (using the term loosely) that never breath hard or break a sweat. LOL

Spending their time stacking the weights on and off, and yaking their lips.

The BB are the same size two months ago as today. I hear them say,"I'm must be over-training. I'm not getting results with this routine. I've gotta mix it up some and spend more time at this. I've got to do more on my arms, etc."
-----------------
When I workout:

By the time I finish every set I'm breathing hard, or I know I'm not working hard enough. I sweat from the time I start until I finish.

I never sit down, unless the exercise calls for it.

I never spend more than 3 minutes between sets of anything, and usually it's around 1 minute.

When I'm not exercising, I'm walking or stretching during a workout.

I finish 10-12 compound exercises 2 x 10s in 35 minutes on average.

I'm cordial, but never talkative. If someone starts following me around and talking that's what they have to do. Talk and walk with me, because I'm going to finish in less than 45 minutes so I can get on with the rest of my day.

-------------

The old timers had to do a lot of hit and miss, because exercise physiology wasn't close to the science 35 years ago it is today. BB just worked their buns to a nub and ate like a horse. They hit plateaus and highs, but they persisted.

[Minotaur]

I know that for me, it's time constraints. In the evening, I want to be done and out of the gym by 9pm, so as to get home, unwind and get to bed at a decent time. On the weekends, I have other things to do, so I stress over how much time I'm in the gym. It's also a mental thing saying that workouts have to be done in an hour or so or else there will be complete physical meltdown, ala the China Syndrome. Thirdly, it's a fuel factor. For long workouts, you can run out of steam unless you refuel.

If I had almost unlimited time, no other obligations, and stopped to refuel periodically during a workout, I'd be a mass monster, and would spend the better part of the morning or afternoon or evening in the gym. I could easily see my workouts going 3 hours.

Damn, I gotta quit my job!

[Defiant1]

I know that for me, it's time constraints. In the evening, I want to be done and out of the gym by 9pm, so as to get home, unwind and get to bed at a decent time. On the weekends, I have other things to do, so I stress over how much time I'm in the gym. It's also a mental thing saying that workouts have to be done in an hour or so or else there will be complete physical meltdown, ala the China Syndrome. Thirdly, it's a fuel factor. For long workouts, you can run out of steam unless you refuel.

If I had almost unlimited time, no other obligations, and stopped to refuel periodically during a workout, I'd be a mass monster, and would spend the better part of the morning or afternoon or evening in the gym. I could easily see my workouts going 3 hours.

Damn, I gotta quit my job!

Here too.

I just think it's SICK when I see 20 year old's asking "Am I overtraining?" if they DARE do bodyparts 2x per week or more than 4 sets per bp.

[MAXIMILLION]

for me i cannot get bigger until i get stronger, yes i can pump up like a balloon . but a pump is not size you carry around all day long. if i do 25 sets per body part the weight i would use would be girlie man weight. the 5x5 routine is an old bber routine that works great. i feel juice guy routines in rag mags have ruined a whole generation of want a be natural guys.if anybody knows ah-nolds history he lifted heavy and got bigg in austria . then he came to america under weider and vince gironda who called him a fat ass. so he trained lighter more reps took winstrol and got ripped and cutt.

[Defiant1]

for me i cannot get bigger until i get stronger, yes i can pump up like a balloon . but a pump is not size you carry around all day long. if i do 25 sets per body part the weight i would use would be girlie man weight. the 5x5 routine is an old bber routine that works great. i feel juice guy routines in rag mags have ruined a whole generation of want a be natural guys.if anybody knows ah-nolds history he lifted heavy and got bigg in austria . then he came to america under weider and vince gironda who called him a fat ass. so he trained lighter more reps took winstrol and got ripped and cutt.

That was sort of the point of my post. The old pre-drug guys trained very heavy, plus did lots of volume, and didn't complain. The "juice-guys" train no harder than the "pre-juice" guys. Yet people will say "oh, they can do that because they are on the juice", which is not really what happened.

[Niroc]

That was sort of the point of my post. The old pre-drug guys trained very heavy, plus did lots of volume, and didn't complain. The "juice-guys" train no harder than the "pre-juice" guys. Yet people will say "oh, they can do that because they are on the juice", which is not really what happened.

I understand the point of your post but because they did much higher volume, does it necessarily mean that they were right? I've made great gains doing low volume/high intensity workouts and anything over an hour of weight-training seems pointless. From all that I've read, in theory you can get just as much out of 1 set of a very intense exercise than doing 5 sets of very intense exercise, etc, etc. I forget where I read it at, I think it was on BB.com

[powerman2000]

I posted this in the programs section: But I KNOW you guys will appreciate it!!

Sometimes I get the impression that a lot of people think that the only reason "pro" bodybuilders can do long, hard routines is because of "drugs", and that prior to wide-spread AAS use, bodybuilders trained with "short" workouts of few sets. I see this frequently when "Arnolds" routines are brought up. This is actually a misconception. I was reading an article by Bob Kennedy, publisher of MMI, and respected for his "honest" view of bodybuilding. He states:

"You'll have to forgive for delving into the past with my articles, but seriously, my head is full of lessons from the past. Sometimes I even turn my movie reel back as much as fifty years.

But let me tell you something. The bodybuilders of yesteryear, even though they didn't have the mass-building steroids or the cut-up drugs, trained far harder than the champs we see in the gyms today. This is a fact, not even up for discussion."

Bob Kennedy has been involved in the iron game for a LONG time.

The point of this is is that I see guys wondering if they are "overtraining", or people putting down the pros routines cause they are "on steroids". If you REALLY can't do a routine, then fine. But don't dismiss hard work because you THINK you can't do it. The pros didn't suddenly get to where they are and say "Oh gee, now I can do 25 sets per bodypart"-it's the drive and determination to GET them through those workouts that make them the pros. Not the other way around. You don't have to follow their advice, but don't dismiss them because of some pre-conceived notion.

The old time natural guys trained just as hard, even harder.

So get in there, and bust your ass.

I totally disagree from a logical standpoint. When a bb uses gear, he's able to do more because he can recover faster than someone who isn't using, which means a higher workout volume can be done while still recovering in time for the next workout. Although the bb pros of days gone by don't use as much gear as they do today, they were still using and even a small dosage makes a huge difference. I know from experience. Overtraining is the #1 problem that novice bb inflict on themselves. Less is definitely more when it comes to weight training. Why else would everyone in the PL world reduce their workout volume during a meet prep training cycle? Why, because the less they do the better they recover and then they get stronger as the competition day draws nearer.

[Defiant1]

I totally disagree from a logical standpoint. When a bb uses gear, he's able to do more because he can recover faster than someone who isn't using, which means a higher workout volume can be done while still recovering in time for the next workout. Although the bb pros of days gone by don't use as much gear as they do today, they were still using and even a small dosage makes a huge difference. I know from experience. Overtraining is the #1 problem that novice bb inflict on themselves. Less is definitely more when it comes to weight training. Why else would everyone in the PL world reduce their workout volume during a meet prep training cycle? Why, because the less they do the better they recover and then they get stronger as the competition day draws nearer.

To illustrate my point, I will use an analogy again. Gear makes it easier to train longer and harder, no doubt. But that doesn't mean that natural guys shouldn't train long and hard.

Here's the analogy: You have two guys taking calculus-one is a natural at math (the "gear" user), one is not so good at math. Who will have to study harder to get maximum results (grades)?

You (we) have our work cut out for us as naturals.

Simple fact of the matter. I have put on 100 pounds since I started training. 100!! (same or less bodyfat) It has been 15 years of off and on training. I have never used any drugs. That is a simple fact.

I don't give a crap what ANYONE says about genetics. My genetics are AVERAGE AT BEST. When I was doing HIT and not growing, the "experts" told me it was my genetics!! My mom weighs about 130, my Dad 150. I KNOW ****totyping as well as ANYONE on here. I am an ecto-endomorph.

Do I think that abbreviated training works? absolutely. Is it the best for MAXIMUM results in the long run? IMO, no.